Cloud image use cases

[Matt Micene]

>
> More globally, our cloud image is still too fat compared to other distros
> by a large margin.
> What's a data supported target for an appropriate "small enough" sized
> Cloud image?


OK, so I got curious.  This is based on AWS, US West (Oregon).  I compared
current F22, Ubunutu 14.04, and openSuse  13.2.  Here's the details:

Fedora 22 Base:
Default image size: 6 GB
[fedora at ip-10-0-0-176 ~]$ sudo fdisk -l
Disk /dev/xvda: 6 GiB, 6442450944 bytes, 12582912 sectors

Root filesystem: 444M used
/dev/xvda1     ext4      5.9G  444M  5.2G   8% /

Ubuntu 14.04:
Default image size: 8 GB
ubuntu at ip-10-0-0-68:~$ sudo fdisk -l
Disk /dev/xvda: 8589 MB, 8589934592 bytes

Root filesystem: 780M used
/dev/xvda1     ext4      7.8G  780M  6.6G  11% /

openSuse 13.2:
Default image size: 10 GB
ip-10-0-0-175:~ # fdisk -l
Disk /dev/hda: 10 GiB, 10737418240 bytes, 20971520 sectors


Root filesystem: 868M used
/dev/hda1      ext4      8.8G  868M  7.5G  11% /

(AND openSuse make you log in as root!! eep!)

So we are currently the smallest uploaded AMI and consuming the least
amount of available space in base, current version, community AMIs.


On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Matt Micene <nzwulfin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Multiply this by the number of instances, and it could amount to few
>> thousands dollars per month.
>>
>
> Agreed, that could be an issue.
>
>
>> More globally, our cloud image is still too fat compared to other distros
>> by a large margin.
>
>
> I'd like to see data.  The end user will wind up paying for all storage
> attached to a running instance, not just what OS is laid down.   Based on a
> quick launch, the current Ubuntu 14.04 HVM community image in EC2 is based
> on an 8GB image.
>
> What's a data supported target for an appropriate "small enough" sized
> Cloud image?
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Haïkel <hguemar at fedoraproject.org>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> 2015-07-10 17:59 GMT+02:00 Matt Micene <nzwulfin at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> So what I'm really after is what sets Fedora Cloud apart from every
>>>> other distro cloud image.  What usecases is it better at than {Ubuntu,
>>>> SuSE, <whatever>}.
>>>
>>>
>>> Given that logic, Fedora should stop everything but Atomic.  The Cloud
>>> image should be Fedora optimized for the cloud instance experience, just
>>> like Workstation is Fedora optimized for the desktop user experience. It
>>> shouldn't be massively different for Cloud than Server, b/c the use case
>>> between Server and Cloud isn't that large.
>>>
>>> Fedora should have a "typical" answer for what use cases are better than
>>> XYZ distro, that isn't dependent on a (frankly) edge use case like a
>>> container specific platform.  Atomic is a new and interesting thing, with a
>>> very small and specific purpose and design.  That's a good thing and
>>> shouldn't be used as an argument against the Cloud image.  Or even as a
>>> comparison.
>>>
>>>
>>>> > Depends: for end-users, it could mean a smaller bill each month on
>>>> storage.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not a fan of this argument for minimizing the Cloud experience as
>>> the real cost of "magnetic" storage in most cloud providers is small.  If
>>> pulling Python saves 1GB of on disk installed OS space, then users in a AWS
>>> environment save $0.24 a month / server in the most expensive storage in
>>> the most expensive region (Sao Paolo if you're curious).  And I'm sure we
>>> aren't shaving that much off the image.  I have to think the level of
>>> engineering required to majorly redesign things around minimization efforts
>>> are likely mis-placed if end user cost is the main metric.
>>>
>>>
>> Multiply this by the number of instances, and it could amount to few
>> thousands dollars per month.
>> More globally, our cloud image is still too fat compared to other distros
>> by a large margin.
>>
>>
>>
>>> That's where the Stack&Env WG work is important for us, as it could
>>>> become
>>>> an asset against our other offers.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This ^^^  I'm a firm believer that the SCL work that got dropped is a
>>> huge value when we want to talk about differentiating Fedora as a Cloud or
>>> Server platform.  The ability to cleanly separate system requirements from
>>> end-user platforms is huge.  I think the Cloud SIG should be jumping up and
>>> down on getting SCLs back on track.
>>>
>>> - Matt M
>>>
>>>
>> Well, SCL is another topic (to remain polite), and I'm more than happy to
>> let Stack&Env WG
>> dealing with that matter.
>>
>> Regards,
>> H.
>>
>>
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>
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