<div dir="ltr">++1 on the logo, it looks great<div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span style="font-size:12.8px">If we start giving off the signal that Fedora Cloud is getting less<br></span><span style="font-size:12.8px">maintained while it's the contrary, we'll be ruining our efforts<br></span><span style="font-size:12.8px">there. Kushal, Mike and others did an excellent work on Fedora Classic<br></span><span style="font-size:12.8px">Cloud and the effort will be maintained at the same level or even<br></span><span style="font-size:12.8px">better.</span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This has been my biggest concern with changing the focus of the SIG, external communication about the the Classic Cloud image (I like that btw). I think this proposal from <span style="font-size:12.8px;white-space:nowrap">Máirín's other email on the website design is key:</span></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span style="font-size:12.8px">- Consider replacing the “Cloud” edition slot on the front of </span><a href="http://getfedora.org/" rel="noreferrer" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">getfedora.org</a><span style="font-size:12.8px"> with a Fedora “Atomic” edition brand.</span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Overall this is primarily an external marketing focus for the project. The work that is being done by the SIG won't stop or slow, but there's an additional focus on a different edition because of containers. That the work being done to make Fedora Server a "good guest OS" as Cloud Classic edition is hopefully easier to find and consume. </div><div><br></div><div>Giving Fedora Atomic a new set of spaces rather than replacing the existing set of websites helps to enforce the idea that the Cloud base isn't being abandoned. I'd go so far as to say we need to focus more on the Early Majority and see what the roadblocks to adoption of Fedora Server Cloud Classic (ok, now I'm getting silly) exist. </div><div><br></div><div>Also, containers and Atomic aren't *just* for clouds, so getting a little more space there is beneficial too.</div><div><br></div><div>- Matt M</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Haïkel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hguemar@fedoraproject.org" target="_blank">hguemar@fedoraproject.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">2015-09-16 14:48 GMT+02:00 Ryan Brown <<a href="mailto:rybrown@redhat.com">rybrown@redhat.com</a>>:<br>
><br>
><br>
> I think we're over-estimating where users are in the "magic bi-modal IT<br>
> devops agile transformation quadrant" (which I hear Gartner is calling it<br>
> now).<br>
><br>
> I think there's a fairly close mapping from where users are in the adoption<br>
> cycle to what page they need to get to.<br>
><br>
> Early adopters -> Atomic<br>
> Early majority -> Cloud/Server<br>
> Late majority/long tail -> Server/Workstation<br>
><br>
<br>
</span>Nope, we currently agree on that part, I've even said the same thing<br>
in a pv yesterday :)<br>
<span class=""><br>
<br>
> There's your early adopters are already all about containers and know they<br>
> want Atomic, and they'll go get it. We don't even really need to highlight<br>
> it very much, just mention "Atomic is a cloud thing for containers" and<br>
> they'll be all over it.<br>
><br>
<br>
</span>No, they want containers and containers-oriented systems but they're<br>
not aware of the existence of Atomic.<br>
Hence the decision to make Atomic primary, we want to raise awareness<br>
around the project.<br>
<br>
Currently, people are all getting giddy around CoreOS which has<br>
developed interesting components but overall story is quite weak.<br>
<span class=""><br>
> The early majority has some stuff in the cloud already, and probably still<br>
> have some "pets" either on real hardware or long-lived VMs. They might look<br>
> at Atomic to evaluate it, but are likely still going to have Cloud or Server<br>
> as their bread and butter. Highlighting atomic from the cloud page and the<br>
> main <a href="http://getfedora.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">getfedora.org</a> would help us get these users into Atomic.<br>
><br>
> The "early majority" will still have the Cloud/Server products as their main<br>
> consumption for quite some time, and even if we think containers are where<br>
> the cloud is going, there aren't going to be loads of users there for a<br>
> while.<br>
><br>
<br>
</span>I agree about traditional cloud images but regarding Fedora Cloud, our<br>
adoption rate is still low compared to other images.<br>
If we start giving off the signal that Fedora Cloud is getting less<br>
maintained while it's the contrary, we'll be ruining our efforts<br>
there. Kushal, Mike and others did an excellent work on Fedora Classic<br>
Cloud and the effort will be maintained at the same level or even<br>
better.<br>
Primary is Atomic, but Classic will still maintained for some time and<br>
at the same level than currently. That's the message.<br>
<span class=""><br>
> I'm not sure that transferring the cloud image over to the Server WG makes<br>
> much sense, since the Cloud WG has the expertise and infra to maintain it<br>
> already.<br>
<br>
</span>Well, we're pretty far for even considering this but I see it as<br>
possible in the future.<br>
During Flock Prague, people took me for a fool when I asked Fesco if<br>
we could imagine that one day, Fedora could switch to the Atomic model<br>
rather than the traditional package one.<br>
When I look at the work in progress about desktop app containers,<br>
we're not that far from making it happen in a few years.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
H.<br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
> --<br>
> Ryan Brown / Software Engineer, Openstack / Red Hat, Inc.<br>
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