Call for agenda for Workstation WG meeting 2014-Dec-17

[Josh Boyer]

On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 2:05 AM, Chris Murphy <lists at colorremedies.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Josh Boyer <jwboyer at fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Chris Murphy <lists at colorremedies.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Josh Boyer <jwboyer at fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>>>> Your requests aren't bad at all, but they aren't new.  Everyone wants
>>>> btrfs because it was hyped as the filesystem of the future.
>>>
>>> tl;dr Those who want it, want it for the features, and much simpler
>>> access to those features. Not because of hype.
>>
>> tl;dr I know all of that.  It still doesn't change the fact that the
>> features are tied to a filesystem that isn't actually read yet.  It
>> doesn't matter how simple it is to use if it doesn't actually keep
>> your data safe.
>
> Ok so what's Fedora's "Btrfs is ready" metric? It used to be that an
> fsck needs to ship. Ok, there's been one for a while. Is the real

The metric is when the btrfs maintainers themselves say it's ready,
then we start evaluating it more in depth.  They haven't said that.

> Opensuse 13.2 by default puts /home on XFS, and everything else on
> Btrfs. Did Fedora consider this? Should it be considered? It gets

Yes, I know that.  Yes it was considered.  SUSE has btrfs developers
in place for both their enterprise and normal kernels to handle the
workload of that decision.  Fedora doesn't.

> around having to answer the question whether it's ready for user data,
> by using it for more easily replaceable system data should it go belly
> up. And in the meantime provides a means for online atomic updates and
> dropping the immediate reboot requirement; and rollbacks; and dropping
> the complexities (to users and admins alike) of LVM.

Yes, it does all those things.  They can all be done in Fedora if
people want.  That doesn't mean we're ready to make it the default
setup.

> Also, opensuse 13.2 doesn't appear to limit Btrfs by default on
> command line as far as I can tell. I can create and use multiple
> device Btrfs volumes, including raid56, autodefrag, compression, and
> send/receive all work.

Correct.  Unlike SLES, OpenSUSE doesn't have the patch to limit features.

Look, I get that you really want btrfs.  That's awesome.  Nothing
you've said here is new though.  I know you're working on it in some
form, so keep it up and maybe we'll eventually get there.

josh