Services that can start by default policy feedback

[Toshio Kuratomi]

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 06:22:25PM +0000, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 09:46:08AM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 06:32:44PM +0000, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> > > There are no essential services, which means any proposal that contains 
> > > the phrase "non-essential services" is already unimplementable.
> > > 
> > You've said this many times and it seems that you do it to be
> > obstructionist.  The constructive way to deal with this is to start making
> > a list of what people really mean by "essential" and then propose alternate
> > words to use.
> 
> Like Jesse said, my objection here is that using the word "essential" 
> just results in us being doomed to argue over what "essential" means. 
> A literal interpretation of "essential" means "start init and have it 
> launch a getty". I don't think anyone's advocating that that be the 
> outcome of a vanilla Fedora install. An alternative would be "Essential 
> for a traditional UNIX experience", which would seem to preclude dbus. I 
> don't think that's a rational outcome either. So we end up with 
> "Essential for providing an experience consistent with what we feel a 
> vanilla Fedora install should provide", which means you haven't actually 
> defined "essential" at all. So don't say "essential". Say what you mean.
> 
> > I think, by essential, some people mean:
> > 
> > start the bare minimum so I don't have to start any additional services to:
> > 
> > ... I don't want anything but init and a shell [*]
> > ... log into a getty
> > ... log in over the network
> > ... log into a desktop
> > ... do any client-side operations
> 
> That's my point. If people have different interpretations of "essential" 
> then any policy using the word "essential" is meaningless. You need to 
> define "essential" - and if you're doing that then you don't need to use 
> the word in the first place.
> 
And my point is that instead of telling people "there are no essential
survices" and therefore jsut leading people to argue about the meaning of
a word, it's much more helpful to try to figure out these definitions that
they are using the word to mean and then, if the word still bothers you,
assign a different word then essential to it.

-Toshio
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