/usrmove? -> about the future

[Adam Williamson]

On Fri, 2012-02-10 at 18:21 +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
> 
> Am 10.02.2012 18:05, schrieb Adam Williamson:
> > On Fri, 2012-02-10 at 13:13 +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
> > Everyone on this list is well aware of the fact that you consider
> > systemd a terrible failure because not every package in Fedora yet has
> > systemd-native init scripts, but by the same token, it is clear that
> > almost no-one agrees with you. On a solid practical level, I am not
> > aware that systemd is currently the source of any major problems in
> > Fedora 15, 16 or 17. 
> 
> F15 was horrible broken
> mysqld in F15 was horrible broken

My servers ran F15 for six months. Never had a problem with mysql. As I
recall, your issues with mysql were to do with a specific fairly
advanced use case, hardly general-purpose stuff.

> F15 was the first Linux i saw where "reboot" did not
> work until you typed "kill 1" while praying!

I ran F15 on four machines for months, didn't have that problem. If lots
of people had, I would have expected to hear a lot more noise.

> if no one agress that is unacceptable that init-system
> is changed in F15 and F17 still contains not converted
> services then no one knows how quality looks like

I don't agree, no. systemd was explicitly written to be 100%
sysv-compatible because everyone involved knew perfectly well that sysv
init scripts would stick around for years. That outcome was entirely
expected and planned for. I'm not aware of any major bug caused by using
a sysv init script with systemd in current Fedora. So why is it you
think this is such a huge problem?

> for me there are two options
> 
> * doing a change and doing it completly
> * doing not the change at all



> if maintainers can not be forced to convert their services
> and maintain their packages properly the distribution lacks
> needed authority - and NO freedom and do what you want does
> not work always and in every context
> 
> > Personally, I quite simply don't agree with the entire foundation of
> > your argumentation in this thread. You suggest that the rapid pace of
> > feature development in general is causing terrible problems for the
> > distro, and cite systemd and /usr move as examples; I simply don't see
> > that your examples back up your contention.
> 
> as long as /usrmove requires something else than "yum distro-sync"
> for a working upgrade the "feature" is broken at all
> 
> other examples from the past:
> 
> KDE4.0, put in a pre-alpha state in F9, completly unuseable
> because someone HEARED it MAY be ready until end of GA cycle
> someone heard, thought and expected that something is ready
> is the wrong argument for decisions - if i want to pray i go
> in a church. this has nothing to search in software-development
> 
> pulseuadio was horrible broken and did not work on any
> of my machines for some releases
> 
> systemd is not finished until now and 20 releases behind upstream
> in F15, half of the packages are not converted
> 
> your definition and my definition of quality are complete incompatible
> 
> 

-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora
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