unaccessability

[Branislav Blaskovic]

On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 04:06:18PM +0100, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Nov 2013 01:35:41 +0000, Ian Malone wrote:
> 
> > > Please don't let it install applications, which cannot be started via the
> > > graphical desktop user interface (such as a menu system or a list of
> > > installed Applications). Users, who install software with the help of a
> > > graphical program, expect that afterwards they can find and launch the
> > > installed software via the graphical desktop user interface. Alternatively,
> > > the installer ought to offer launching something as the next step.
> > 
> > No they don't.
> 
> You're free to claim that, but my experience differs, so it's very likely
> that we won't agree about this.
> 
> An example with a truncated package description:
> 
>    Name        : ImageMagick
>    Group       : Applications/Multimedia
> 
>    Description :
>    ImageMagick is an image display and manipulation tool for the X
>    Window System. [...]
>    ImageMagick also includes command line programs for creating
>    animated or transparent .gifs, creating composite images, creating
>    thumbnail images, and more.
> 
>    ImageMagick is one of your choices if you need a program to manipulate
>    and display images. 
> 
> The package does not include a .desktop file. Using GNOME Shell search,
> it is not locatable when entering "Image" or "Magic". This is confusing
> users. Examining the package further, it turns out the "man ImageMagick"
> manual page mentions:
> 
>    The functionality of ImageMagick is typically utilized from the command
>    line or you can use the features from programs written in your favorite
>    programming language. 
> 
> > I think it's perfectly reasonable that there could be a
> > GUI program can install components and terminal commands. After all we
> > can start GUI programs from the command line.

Hi,

yes, you are right with ImageMagic - no doubt. I don't want to support the idea
of this thread but there are many of apps which are made for terminal but users
are running them mostly without arguments. For example - irssi, BitchX, mc,
newsbeuter, alsamixer(I am still using the cli one), mutt(kind of), alpine,
nethack, and others. Of course - you can run it with arguments but regular user
who uses that GUI tool to install apps will not use its arguments for first
run.

I know a lot of people who have its own workarounds to start irssi/mutt from
"alt-f2 menu". I have my own script to start vim in terminal to be able to open
text files from Firefox directly in classic terminal vim (I hate gvim).

Just my two cents.

Brano

> 
> We cannot start GUI programs from the command line when the DISPLAY
> variable is not set or invalid. ;-p
> 
> > Installer offering to run something for you is something that's always
> > irritated me ("you've installed this! do you want to run it now?!"). I
> > can live with it if it's useful for the majority of people, but I
> > don't see why it's obvious that this "should" happen.
> 
> I don't refer to "launching CLI programs after installation", because
> that is _impossible_, and only having users stare at the --help output
> in a terminal window would not be a great feature at all.
> 
> I recommend that anything that is installable via a GUI package tool (or
> application installer) offers the option to _either_ start the installed
> thing as the next step (which is feasible, if it's a GUI application) _or_
> to continue with a jump to a system settings tool where to configure the
> installed thing (e.g. a service, daemon, applet), which is not a program
> that would be listed as an installed application.
> 
> Conclusively, if it became possible to install "ImageMagick" via
> "gnome-software", the installed software ought to register itself as
> an ordinary application in the menu system (or applications list), even
> if starting it that way would only open a Help browser that explains
> how ImageMagick is supposed to be used.
> -- 
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