fedup for F23 and beyond

[Josh Boyer]

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 4:05 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl at thelounge.net> wrote:
>
> Am 28.05.2015 um 21:58 schrieb Michael Catanzaro:
>>
>> On Thu, 2015-05-28 at 14:39 -0400, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you think the tech could stabilize enough to obviate the first
>>> reason? The 6-month workflow cadence remains a good idea, of course,
>>> but  could result in a major offline upgrade, instead of  an entire
>>> new distribution.
>>
>>
>> I think we're already at the point where -- at least for Fedora
>> Workstation (not sure about Server/Cloud), and except for
>> infrastructure issues -- we can stop branding our releases with a
>> version number, and simply have a particularly big offline update every
>> six months. Behind-the-scenes, we still have the six-month cycle, but
>> this is hidden to users. They get Fedora and it's just Fedora, not
>> Fedora 21 or Fedora 22. People stop complaining about the 13-months of
>> support that isn't long enough for them: we wouldn't have that short
>> support window anymore, instead there is *indefinite* support so long
>> as you take your monthly QAed updates pack (five small updates packs,
>> then a big updates pack, then five smaller ones, then a big one, ...).
>> This is the model Windows is moving to, and it makes a lot of sense to
>> me
>
>
> when i hear "offline update" i have enough at all
>
> frankly what people really need is relieable and fast *online updates* and
> not taking the esay road "well go offline" and that works pretty well over
> many years now *with expierience* what services you need to restart and if
> you should log off or just close specific applicatoons and start them again
>
> giving up and say "meh i am not able and so go offline" may work for some
> part of the userbase, that maybe even fine *as long* efforts to continue
> what we have now for many many years for advanced users won't die

I understand the sentiment.  I don't like rebooting for updates
either.  However, our "efforts" on live online updates to date have
been "we'll let RPM update this and maybe throw some scripts at it to
restart things and hope it works."  It does in a lot of cases and
doesn't in others.  And our advanced users are distinguished by the
fact that they can figure out when it doesn't work and then fix
things.  That isn't really a _better_ experience than offline updates.
It's just familiar to you.

josh