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On 08/22/2011 12:03 PM, JB wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:loom.20110822T180023-126@post.gmane.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Steve Grubb <sgrubb <at> redhat.com> writes:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">...
You're not seeing the hundreds - no thousands of emails about systemd?
You are not seeing that all the expected facilities of init are not covered?
There is well founded rebellion here.
...
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">
Yes, you are right. And the people (e-mails, posts) you refer to are too.
Your concerns and those of others point to a questionable (non-UNIX) systemd
design.
Once again I refer everybody to Denys Vlasenko's thread, where this is very
visible; go over it again and you will know why:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-June/152323.html">http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-June/152323.html</a>
Sys init was, and should be (as it was expected to be in systemd):
- simple, limited-in-functions, stable, and thus secure in design
- no sys init *and* services manager roles (the last one should be done by
another (child) process and inetd-like server)
- no networking exposure due to security concerns
- no pseudo-roles like handling user sessions, login's, etc
- etc
It is not by chance that people think about a Windows-like approach in concept
and design of systemd, and even Lennart admitted to it:
"I like to see it as a modular platform to build an OS from."
It comes thru, he wants systemd, with its implied "world domination" attitude,
to be a base for some OS-to-be; he even expects it to be some kind of
a standard every distro would adopt.
I can only say I hope not !
I would suggest that Fedora will be first to reject it as it is now.
Fedora is a BETA distro by choice, so it should be easy, prudent, and proper
to stop here and redesign systemd, with community, users and testers input.
A propos, I have here a few links to sources on UNIX philosophy.
I would suggest to everybody to not just read them (skip over them quickly),
but also think for a few minutes about each principle.
It helps clear up one's mind.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy</a>
Eric Steven Raymond
The Art of Unix Programming
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/">http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/html/">http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/html/</a>
The Unix Philosophy
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2877">http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2877</a>
Enjoy it.
JB
Vivaldi - Da due venti il mar turbato - Angela Gheorghiu - 1987 (Very Rare!)
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=8_MtYYCuFjk">http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=8_MtYYCuFjk</a>
</pre>
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<font face="sans-serif">+1000</font><br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
Stephen Clark<br>
<b>NetWolves</b><br>
Sr. Software Engineer III<br>
Phone: 813-579-3200<br>
Fax: 813-882-0209<br>
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:steve.clark@netwolves.com">steve.clark@netwolves.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.netwolves.com">http://www.netwolves.com</a><br>
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