<tt><font size=2>> From: Michael Stahnke <stahnma@puppetlabs.com></font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=2>> <br>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 5:31 AM, <John.Florian@dart.biz>
wrote:<br>
> >> From: Seth Vidal <skvidal@fedoraproject.org><br>
> >><br>
> >> On Fri, 19 Oct 2012, Michael Stahnke wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >> > On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Seth Vidal<br>
> >> >><br>
> >> >><br>
> >> >><br>
> >> >> On Fri, 19 Oct 2012, Michael Stahnke wrote:<br>
> >> >><br>
> >> >>> I (we) completely realize this isn't totally
awesome either. This is<br>
> >> >>> a problem when you have a distributed application
that is trying to<br>
> >> >>> support the widest variety of host populations
we can.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> This request was brought to us by community
members, Red Hat<br>
> >> >>> employees, and business partners as well.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> I am happy to discuss other soutions/ideas too
though. I am not 100%<br>
> >> >>> convinced my proposal is the best.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >><br>
> >> >> I'm less worried about the people requesting the
newness b/c they<br>
> >> >> clearly<br>
> >> >> want change. I'm worried about the people who run
rhel b/c they<br>
> >> fear change.<br>
> >> > I'm more worried about people with hybrid environments
where RHEL is<br>
> >> > at the core for Puppet. (and somewhat how RHEL 7 could
shake out)<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > Do you consider it ok to not be able to have Fedora
agents check into<br>
> >> > a RHEL master?<br>
> >> ><br>
> >><br>
> >> There is a reason I want to move to a clientless configmgmt<br>
> >> infrastructure.<br>
> >><br>
> >> I do not want to be hogtied like this again.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > I cannot speak for Fedora infrastructure, but I committed to
puppet<br>
> > completely at work at home before realizing the horrible situation
that<br>
> > puppet's client/server has forced on its users. While it
looks like they're<br>
> > heading in the right direction, it does us early adopters no
good to<br>
> > struggle through this incompatibility entanglement. Too
much of what once<br>
> > was shown as "the way", if not the best practice, is
no longer even<br>
> > supported (e.g., dynamically scoped variables).<br>
> ><br>
> > My first use of puppet required operation from cached resources
onstateless<br>
> > Fedora nodes in the event that the network was offline or the
"master"<br>
> > otherwise unreachable. I could not make the normal client/server
approach<br>
> > work and thus adopted a rsync + cron + puppet agent apply approachas
a work<br>
> > around. That to date has still been my best experience
with puppet -- it<br>
> > just works because it abandons the requirements imposed by their<br>
> > client/server approach.<br>
> ><br>
> > As for what should be done with Fedora and RHEL I cannot say.
It seems all<br>
> > available options stink. On one hand I'd hate to see F17
change, I'm still<br>
> > struggling to adjust my code to be compatible with that. I've
had a<br>
> > difficult time keeping my puppet resources in shape for each
Fedora release<br>
> > -- six months goes by all to fast when you have many other responsibilities<br>
> > -- puppet was supposed to reduce my workload, right? Right???
If3.0 lands<br>
> > in F17, that's going to hurt my plans. At the same time,
puppet in F17 "as<br>
> > is" is plagued with problems as already mentioned.<br>
> ><br>
> > Argh! "Hogtied" is a very apt description.<br>
> <br>
> I'm sorry if your Puppet experience isn't completely awesome. Posting<br>
> on the Puppet users list might be more appropriate.</font></tt>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Been there, done that since v0.24.</font><tt><font size=2>
If I'd jumped in with 3.0, my opinions might be different. I
believe something like puppet is sorely needed and it solves big problems,
but it's been a very bumpy ride when what was once "best practice"
is now deprecated.<br>
<br>
> In this case I am looking for packaging options/opinions on Puppet<br>
> with regards to Fedora and EPEL.<br>
</font></tt>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">See my next to last paragraph beginning,
"As for what should be done with Fedora and RHEL ...". Consider
the rest as context.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
--<br>
John Florian</font>
<br>