<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/24/2013 11:35 AM, Stephen
Gallagher wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:51EFBC0E.7060700@redhat.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">While I <b class="moz-txt-star"><span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>am<span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b> pleased that you've given some real thought to this, I
think you may have missed the real point I was trying to make there,
which also ties back to the original purpose of that thread.
Fedora is hemorrhaging users to other distributions (and to
closed-source platforms). I tried to note that the people maintaining
the vast majority of the pieces that correspond to an "operating
system" in Fedora (loosely the Ring 0-2 pieces in that design) are
almost entirely Red Hatters. This information is based on admittedly
imperfect metrics (mostly dist-git commits), but even if it's off by a
15% margin of error, the contributions still have Red Hat in the vast
majority.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Hmm not following<br>
<br>
On numerous occasion it has been stated that Red Hat employees are
just like any other member of the Fedora community and should be
treated as such with the only difference being that on their
paycheck says Red Hat instead of <insert some other company ( so
are you saying that is not the case? <br>
<br>
And as such their in the case of the "bounty" donations would just
be "bonus" to the existing salary as it might be for anyone else if
that's what you are wondering. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51EFBC0E.7060700@redhat.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
The problem with crowdsourcing is that you have to have someone who
wants your product enough to pay money to see it happen.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
That would be ourselves and user base as in our community and it's
users but for something like this to work we cannot just copy/paste
the concept as is and blindly apply to the project we need to adapt
and adjust it to us.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51EFBC0E.7060700@redhat.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> There are
definitely some pieces of your proposal that could be implemented
(I've been arguing for Bug/RFE bounties for the last five years, both
with Red Hat funding and later with crowdfunding). I'd really like to
see FESCo have the ability to set such bounties as a way to actually
influence direction in the project. So on this I agree wholeheartedly.
Unfortunately, the current Fedora user ecosystem <b class="moz-txt-star"><span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>really<span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b> doesn't lend
itself to crowdfunding because the only significant community of
non-Red Hat contributors are those operating on the upper levels of
the stack (the application developers and the alternative desktop
developers, primarily). This tends to be a set of contributors that
are fickle in the platform they work on (especially since in many
cases, they are supporting multiple distributions already).</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Here to me it's seems again that you implies that Red Hatters are
"different" from other community members so it would be good if we
can establish if that is the case or not.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51EFBC0E.7060700@redhat.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
In other words, if we switched to a crowdfunded model, the primary
contributions would <b class="moz-txt-star"><span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>still<span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b> be coming directly or indirectly from Red
Hat. The only difference here is that now it would look like Red Hat
was taking a stealth role in Fedora's governance instead of standing
tall as its primary benefactor (and beneficiary).</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
I dont see how or why that has to be the case.<br>
<br>
Are you implying in a such model we should keep our sponsor hidden
instead of having something like a page with Platinum,
Gold,Silver,Bronze for companies as is being done on flock and
something similar as is being done on lwn as in "<b>✭ supporter ✭"
</b>displayed next to our community members name everywhere where
it's displayed in our infrastructure/web?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51EFBC0E.7060700@redhat.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Also, you mention later in the thread about moving Fedora's name out
of the USA. Given the current US climate around "outsourcing", this
could be a significant legal hurdle and is probably not a fight worth
having right at this moment.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
It has been mentioned to me privately in a mail and a on this thread
that the us legal and tax system would be a stopper at least while
Fedora was under the trademark. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51EFBC0E.7060700@redhat.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
tl;dr version: If we switched to a crowdfunding model, Red Hat would
still be the primary contributor and little would change.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Other for the fact that this would allow everyone to contribute to
the project not just Red Hat which in turn would make us less
depended on it ( or they spending money on us from their point of
view ).<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51EFBC0E.7060700@redhat.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> I strongly
support opening up a donation program to support bug/rfe/design
bounties. I'd like to see that pool of money managed by FESCo.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Agreed although I'm unsure if FESCO should handle that process
beside the obvious points of there might be conflicts of interest,
they have enough on their plate as it seems so a special Financial
SIG with representative from each sub-community ( with perhaps the
exception of the service sub-communities which would just fall under
whomever is in charge of the finance for the project ) might better
fit. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51EFBC0E.7060700@redhat.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> If
people want to donate to bounties for individual upstream projects,
it's probably better for them to do that directly.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
I disagree we need to increase the number of contributors here
within the project and sorry to say that but we cant do that if we
forward everybody upstream ( which is one of the reason I have been
so reluctant forward our QA community members directly upstream
always ). <br>
<br>
We also want to be the downstream distribution of chose for
upstreams so we need to somehow make it attractive for them
participate in the project and this could be one of those factors. <br>
<br>
Bounty hunters they themselves could donate a portions of their
bounty upstream themselves if they wanted to.<br>
<br>
Ofcourse no bounty would be paid out until it has been accepted by
upstream<br>
<br>
JBG<br>
</body>
</html>