I kind of agree with your levels of trust there, but one thing I notice<div>(that Mike/mmcgrath has pointed out before) is that we get a lot of</div><div>people who show interest, get access to some subset of systems</div>
<div>(like -noc, or -test), and then never use it, and just fade out. Or</div><div>they send out their introduction email, but never join on IRC</div><div>and never actually get involved.</div><div><br></div><div>I realize -test is kind of more public than the rest, but I think we</div>
<div>should occasionally go through -test and -noc and see who all</div><div>has faded out/not used their access. I'd rather people come back</div><div>in a month asking to be re-sponsored into a group than have access</div>
<div>to things just hanging there, and never be used. The more access,</div><div>the more entryways into the servers, and the more security risk.</div><div><br></div><div>One other thing, I wouldn't put -hosted in the same group as</div>
<div>-noc and -test. -hosted has access to all of <a href="http://fedorahosted.org">fedorahosted.org</a></div><div>which hosts quite a lot of projects and gets quite a lot of hits.</div><div><br></div><div>Anyway, those are just my thoughts on moving forward. I really like</div>
<div>how open we are to people helping out, and joining the team, I just</div><div>wish there was a way to filter those who are interested/will stick around</div><div>against those who will fade away in two weeks.</div><div>
<br></div><div>- Ricky Elrod<br><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:36 PM, David Nalley <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:david@gnsa.us">david@gnsa.us</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im">On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 11:36 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <<a href="mailto:smooge@gmail.com">smooge@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Ok I am not doing a good job of greeting new people and helping to get<br>
> them oriented. For the many people on this list I apologize.<br>
><br>
><br>
> My time for getting people into the group has been overloaded and it<br>
> keeps getting put back. So it is time for a new approach... currently<br>
> we have a page for getting started, what to expect, and how to get<br>
> sponsored... but we have not been good about greeting people and<br>
> finding places where their skills match.<br>
><br>
><br>
> <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor" target="_blank">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor</a><br>
> <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/GettingStarted" target="_blank">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/GettingStarted</a><br>
> <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/GettingSponsored" target="_blank">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/GettingSponsored</a><br>
><br>
> We also need to show the separation between groups, sysadmin,<br>
> sysadmin-noc, sysadmin-test, sysadmin-main etc. Some groups are going<br>
> to take a while for someone to get into (sysadmin-releng and<br>
> sysadmin-main) mainly because it is a matter of trust and work. Other<br>
> groups are 'easier' to get into but still require trust. Anyway, I<br>
> would like to get ideas on how e can do this better and move forward.<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>Well it strikes me that we have a bit of a chicken and egg problem in<br>
many ways. We want people to prove themselves, and gain trust in both<br>
their intentions and competency before we grant access, and yet at the<br>
same time, the core way of getting many things done (puppet) is locked<br>
away and requires access.<br>
<br>
So, perhaps that means there needs to be a more formal hierarchy, that<br>
provides a way to show competency and garner trust. Perhaps newcomers<br>
should be required to show up in IRC and watch the flow, and also<br>
orient themselves to the ticket queue. Following there selection of a<br>
FIG, they attract the attention of a sponsor and get the read-only<br>
privileges (similiar to a subset of sysadmin-noc) for that FIG, and<br>
start working on tickets. That level of access is given more freely.<br>
This culminates in the sponsor seeing their work is good and granting<br>
them membership to the FIGs. This effectively creates a senior<br>
sysadmin /junior sysadmin relationship (or perhaps making the sponsors<br>
effective leads that essentially oversee the work of the people being<br>
sponsored until they are sponsored) This is what I have actually seen<br>
happening in many cases, but it's not formalized. This does mean that<br>
sponsors would likely be doing less real work, and more supervising,<br>
which might not appeal to them.<br>
<br>
We also probably need to formalize the strata of things, my choice of<br>
colors for this bikeshed would be:<br>
<br>
The top level groups are:<br>
sysadmin-main, sysadmin-dba, sysadmin-releng<br>
<br>
The intermediate level:<br>
sysadmin-web, sysadmin-cvs, sysadmin-devel, sysadmin-tools, sysadmin-build<br>
<br>
The lowest level:<br>
sysadmin-hosted, sysadmin-test, sysadmin-noc<br>
<br>
The levels I've selected are somewhat arbitrary, but it's my<br>
perception, not of the level of work, but rather the level of trust<br>
that must be earned before being granted permission to start actively<br>
contributing.<br>
<br>
For such a system to be effective, though, we also need to be growing<br>
the sponsors list. I queried zodbot on the sponsors for everything but<br>
the top level. You'll notice there are really only 12 people, most who<br>
are sponsors of multiple FIGs - which means that without growing<br>
sponsors, we'll likely be in the same place.<br>
<br>
18:30 <ke4qqq> .sponsors sysadmin-noc<br>
18:30 <zodbot> Sponsors for sysadmin-noc: @mmcgrath nb smooge @susmit<br>
18:30 <ke4qqq> .sponsors sysadmin-hosted<br>
18:30 <zodbot> Sponsors for sysadmin-hosted: @mmcgrath ricky<br>
18:30 <ke4qqq> .sponsors sysadmin-test<br>
18:30 <zodbot> Sponsors for sysadmin-test: jkeating lmacken mdomsch<br>
@mmcgrath nb ricky @skvidal smooge toshio<br>
18:31 <ke4qqq> .sponsors sysadmin-web<br>
18:31 <zodbot> Sponsors for sysadmin-web: jstanley lmacken mdomsch<br>
@mmcgrath nb skvidal @smooge toshio<br>
18:31 <ke4qqq> .sponsors sysadmin-tools<br>
18:31 <zodbot> Sponsors for sysadmin-tools: @ausil jstanley @mmcgrath nb ricky<br>
18:31 <ke4qqq> .sponsors sysadmin-build<br>
18:31 <zodbot> Sponsors for sysadmin-build: @ausil<br>
18:31 <ke4qqq> .sponsors sysadmin-devel<br>
18:32 <zodbot> Sponsors for sysadmin-devel: lmacken @mmcgrath ricky toshio<br>
18:32 <ke4qqq> .sponsors sysadmin-cvs<br>
18:32 <zodbot> Sponsors for sysadmin-cvs: @ausil @mmcgrath notting<br>
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