Criterion revision proposal: KDE default applications

[Kevin Kofler]

Syam Krishnan wrote:
> The DVD is extremely important for people who don't have cheap and fast
> internet available to download RPMs post installation. Without such a
> connection, the live CDs have limited utility.

It's easier (a smaller download) to download a live image with only the 
necessary parts and then install only the packages you actually need rather 
than downloading an installer DVD of which you will be installing only half 
the packages. (This is one reason why I fought hard to keep CD size as long 
as possible, but unfortunately, I lost that battle to creeping bloat and to 
useless size-increasing "features" such as "Mini"DebugInfo.)

In addition, unless you install right on release day, many of the packages 
you install from that DVD will be updated on your first "yum update" anyway. 
In contrast, post-installed packages are pulled directly from updates where 
applicable.

> The DVD, on the other hand brings more applications and development
> tools. I have never understood why the KDE SIG sees it as a second-class
> citizen. I guess it might require more work for maintaining it. But
> aren't all Fedora KDE packages maintained by the SIG? Then why shouldn't
> things work if they are installed off a DVD (as opposed to from CD +
> internet)?

Historically, the way Anaconda and comps were set up, installing from the 
DVD *always* made you end up with several unwanted GNOME packages on a KDE 
installation. With the new "environments" concept, this has become much 
better (though there are still a few GNOME packages we explicitly blacklist 
or replace by KDE equivalents in the live kickstart). The KDE live image is 
the only way to get a package set which really includes only what KDE SIG 
decided to ship (because we can also blacklist stuff from the common groups 
that the DVD will always install). (That said, even for the live image, some 
choices are forced on us, e.g., all Fedora images are forced to install and 
enable SELinux by current policies.)

> In my opinion, the new Fedora installer allowing only one DE to be
> selected while installing from DVD is itself a defect since there's no
> easy way to install packages off the DVD post installation. But again,
> KDE SIG said DVD is not their chosen way of installation and this wasn't
> a problem.

We do not maintain Anaconda. You need to complain about that to the Anaconda 
developers. For the record, I am unhappy with that design too (though IMHO 
it is overall an improvement over the previous one, it just got better in 
some points and worse in some others). But I cannot do anything about it, 
only the Anaconda developers can.

> Anyway, I hope you guys make the decision that's best for KDE on Fedora.
> That said, the day KDE is out of Fedora DVD, I'll switch to some other
> distro.

While I think the live image is the better solution to install Fedora KDE, I 
also do NOT support the proposal to remove KDE from the installer DVD!

        Kevin Kofler