<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>Il giorno 22/ago/06, alle ore 06:16, Rahul ha scritto:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Nicola Losito wrote:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">When you install and run Ubuntu you got enabled a bunch of features that doesn't make feel the user on his own (Gnome sounds enabled, when i'm supposed to enter the sudo password the screen goes dark leaving only the appropriate window "illuminated" and some other fancier - yes, useless, but fancier things).</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">So boils down to eye candy basically.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Nope.</DIV><DIV>It boild down paying attention to fancier, little, useful visual and "desktop" tricks, that enhance user experience (hidden window asking for root password instead of something that focuses the attention and so on ...</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Sometimes seems so .... have you ever tried using yum, with 3rd parties repos enabled, on a 56k pay-per-time line ? ?</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Back when i was one of those FC seemed to me a distro for privileged aliens with fast/flat connections.</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Why would I? I dont use third party repositories.<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Not a viable solution for a lot of people, and not realistic to think that *now* anyone would drop the use of something they're accoustomed to have (IMHO). Also, even if Livna or RPMforge are not official "endorsed", in the Fedora users I know *everyone* who's got it installed on a personal desktop have got them enabled. So ignoring their exsitence for me is "childish" ... for the lack of a better word of my knowledge :-(</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> If I need to work on dialups, there is a way to configure yum to use local repositories <BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Provided you can manage to get one in some other way ;-)</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> and Fedora might not be the right choice for me at that point.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>And this isn't a point to be worked on ?</DIV><DIV>The 90% of people haven't got a nice connection, do we want to cut them out _also_ because we haven't thought a way to go in their "direction" ??</DIV><DIV>Italy, one of the 7th most rich and industrialized country in the world has still no fibre connection, and *DSL are "slow", strongly asymetrical and most of the time people have got pay per hours connections.</DIV><DIV>What in Eastern Europe ? South America ? and so on ...</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Here i could make a mistake but:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- <A href="http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components">http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">it's clear in the division of what's "ubuntu" or "canonical" and what's not and also ...</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">It is pretty simple for Fedora and it is documented in Fedora wiki pages. Fedora Core is maintained by Red Hat and Fedora Extras, Fedora Legacy is community maintained.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>OK</DIV><DIV>but to me it seems you're avoiding to see my point :-)</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>In universe / multiverse we have 99% of any additional software one can use.</DIV><DIV>Then we can se "backports" (and these are self explainatory) a "commercial" repo by Canonical (which get some way of agreement to distribute Opera or Real with contracts that - i think - could be obtained by any distro provided there's interest into it - Skype in Mandriva installation media comes to my mind too). The rest of "ubuntu 3rd party repos" are for "elite" needs into specific areas.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>For Fedora we have (at least) the repos listed here:</DIV><DIV><A href="http://www.fedoratracker.org/tracker.py?mode=repoSearch">http://www.fedoratracker.org/tracker.py?mode=repoSearch</A></DIV><DIV>where there's no clear policy of what goes where.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">All of these references are about third party repositories. Fedora Project has absolutely no say on what goes on with them.<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Fedora Project should speak loud on this inconsistency (for the record i have 14 different repositories in my yum.repos.d, some enabled some not, and i do not think it's easy to get the reason of this to the "non introduced").</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">There is no inconsistency at the project level and we cant control third party repositories.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> <BR></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>I know Fedora can't drive anyone into anything.</DIV><DIV>But there could be a strict policy on how to provide packages for the distro. This issue i think it's related to the licences present in FC that's been discussed some (recent) time ago here or in the board list.</DIV><DIV>When the licence's type area will become more "clear" we should find a way to make people come into Extras or to Extras-nonfree (to say) instead of making their "personal" repo, summoning up the community efforts in few areas.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I'd like my distro to have the major number of precompiled packages available, no matter what.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Things are getting better but if you want to install random repositories that's really your choice.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Indeed. But if I need these repos to get the software i need /want to test to run my machine productively and i have permanent, several issues with them i'll change my distro. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Again Fedora has come close to my need with 5 and it's mono inclusion and such, but still it's too "complicated" to make it run on many of my friend's machines since the issues i see using the various repos (or yum when they're with slow lines).</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I have been present at the times at Fedora and at the time for Ubuntu, and they since the beginning have fought to be stable as Debian and easy as RH/SuSE. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Fedora has been (to cite Max's word) "We strive to produce a quality distribution of free software that is cutting-edge, pushes the envelope of new open source technology, and is also robust enough that it can be relied on for server or desktop use."</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>To me it somewhat sounds like "Fedora is an hacker toy, build to pleasure is quest for knowledge without crashing every now and then", which is fine, but then at some point I, as user, and many like me i think, may leave this land.</DIV></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Thanks for reading :-)<DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>-- </DIV><DIV>Nicola .:kOoLiNuS:. Losito</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><A href="http://www.koolinus.net">http://www.koolinus.net</A></DIV><DIV><A href="http://koolinus.wordpress.com">http://koolinus.wordpress.com</A></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>