PEP453 // ensurepip // pip

[Neal Becker]

Has this critical pip issue been addressed?

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-February/162518.html


On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 7:10 AM, Donald Stufft <donald at stufft.io> wrote:

>
> On Mar 25, 2014, at 2:59 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda <bkabrda at redhat.com> wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> I would say this one https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/1351 is
> important
> >>> for us
> >>> as packagers. It makes me nervous/upset and sad altogether :-).
> >>
> >> Awesome, well that's on the list for 1.6 so that should be the next
> feature
> >> release
> >> of pip.
> >
> > Cool, thanks a lot!
> >
> >>>
> >>>> having it tied so closely to Python. Also generally about making less
> >>>> headache
> >>>> for distros where pip is involved (pip and the OS package manager
> stomping
> >>>> on
> >>>> each other etc).
> >>>>
> >>>> To start off this goal I've filed
> https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/1668
> >>>> to
> >>>> figure out how pip can get our defaults to the point where most users
> will
> >>>> be
> >>>> installing to ~/.local/ instead of the system location. If there's
> more
> >>>> things
> >>>> pip can do I'd love to know about them, or if ensurepip or the PEP453
> >>>> processes
> >>>> have something I can help with too :)
> >>>
> >>> Nice, I have put my two cents in it.
> >>>
> >> On the topic of re-wheeling (Sorry I just joined so I don't have it in
> my
> >> history to reply to).
> >>
> >> I'm assuming Fedora unbundles the stuff that pip bundles (sorry :/) and
> I'm
> >> guessing that
> >> since the Rewheeling is going to pull in the system versions that it's
> going
> >> to pull in a
> >> copy of pip with those things unbundled. If that's the case you're
> going to
> >> need to install
> >> those things into the virtualenv itself.
> >
> > Just yesterday, I took ownership of python-pip in Fedora and I'm quite
> surprised that we don't unbundle anything. I'll have to investigate this.
> It actually makes sense now that I think of it, since the rewheeled pip has
> worked for us in virtualenv - had we unbundled the bundled code, it would
> have failed.
>
> Ah I just assumed y'all did, that actually makes sense now why you hadn't
> run into that issue yet :)
>
> >
> >> However I think that the copy of pip inside of a venv should keep stuff
> >> bundled if at all
> >> possible. One of the reasons we did this was so that when using pip
> inside of
> >> a venv
> >> we don't make any assertions about what other things you can have
> installed.
> >> So for
> >> example we depend on requests, we don't want someone who is using an
> older
> >> (or newer!)
> >> requests inside of their venv to be unable to install it because pip
> itself
> >> uses it. Also
> >> another reason we did that is because if you uninstall one of those
> things
> >> and it breaks
> >> pip you don't really have a good way to unbreak it except destroy the
> venv or
> >> install it
> >> manually. This is less of a concern for the system installed pip
> because you
> >> have yum
> >> or whatever that can be used to fix it and y'all integrate things
> already to
> >> ensure compat :)
> >>
> >
> > Maybe the reasons for you to bundle are also the reasons why Fedora's
> pip doesn't have these libraries unbundled. As I've said, I need to
> investigate this.
>
> For what it's worth, we do attempt to make it easy for the system level
> pip to have it's copies of stuff unbundled, but if you keep it bundled and
> use rewheel it'll be easier to do modifications to it than having the
> system pip and the "bundled" pip have different sources. Because the pip
> source just bundles stuff as part of it's source while the venv source has
> it inside a Wheel so you have to do an unpack, modify, repack dance that
> rewheel will do for you.
>
> FWIW the technique used by Python for PEP453 matches what we already were
> doing in the virtualenv package, so if you modify the behavior there, it
> might be reasonable to also modify it in virtualenv to use rewheel. That
> would also cut down on the number of different sources of pip.
>
> >
> > Regards,
> > Slavek
> >
> >>
> >> -----------------
> >> Donald Stufft
> >> PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372
> DCFA
> > _______________________________________________
> > python-devel mailing list
> > python-devel at lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/python-devel
>
>
> -----------------
> Donald Stufft
> PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372
> DCFA
>
>
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