<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 1/22/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Richard Hally</b> <<a href="mailto:rhally@mindspring.com">rhally@mindspring.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Rahul Sundaram wrote:<br>> Richard Hally wrote:<br>><br>>> Hi all,<br>>><br>>> Jeff Spaleta wrote:<br>>><br>>>> On 1/22/06, <a href="mailto:goemon@anime.net">goemon@anime.net</a> <
<a href="mailto:goemon@anime.net">goemon@anime.net</a>> wrote:<br>>>><br>>>>> so far it seems like almost everyone wants it back and you're the<br>>>>> only one<br>>>>> arguing for its removal. perhaps this should tell you something
<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> Yeah everyone else in this discussion is insane.<br>>>><br>>>> I'm arguing for removal. In fact I'm arguing for removal of all<br>>>> package choice in the interactive Core installer so that an
<br>>>> installation of core only gives you a default set of packages and<br>>>> everything else happens post install or via kickstart.<br>>><br>>> Or "everything else" is extras or somewhere else.
<br>>> Consider the proposition that "If it's good enough to be included in<br>>> Core it good enough to be installed on my system"<br>><br>> Thats too generic. Is all of the software thats available in core needed
<br>> to be installed simultaneously and is using all of them together a<br>> common scenario?<br>><br>You(Rahul) still don't get it! It's not about "using them all together"<br>at all. Yes, it is about installing "everything" in Core at one
<br>time(install time!) *easily*. It's a usability / easy-of-use issue. It's<br>about giving users the choice. If they want to - let then. Who are you<br>to know better than users what they want to do. You can't seem to<br>
imagine any use cases. Your idea that developers know better than users<br>what users want to do is flat wrong and smacks of paternalism.<br>>><br>>> Are you forgetting the "non-internet access" use case? Or what about
<br>>> the person that only has a very slow connection(e.g. dial-up) and<br>>> installs his system from the CDs he borrowed from his buddy and<br>>> returns them after the install?<br>><br>> You realize that work is being done to create ISO images of Fedora
<br>> Extras packages too. right. Even you could that do that today.<br>><br>>> Does kickstart install from CDs?<br>>><br>>> BTW, there is a bugzilla for kickstart not working with an everything<br>
>> selection.<br>><br>> Report number?<br><br>Search on "anaconda everything".<br><br>><br>>> And what makes Rahul think he knows the difference better than others?<br>>> (wink,wink)<br>
>><br>> Oh please guys. Listen before responding. I presented very detailed<br>> reasons why I think it is not a good thing.<br>And all those reasons are bogus and do not apply to the usability/ease<br>of use of the package selection part of the installer.
<br><br> Now will any of you present<br>> a few different use cases that make it obsoletely require within the<br>> single click in the installer GUI itself instead of merely lobbying for<br>> a change without specifying the reasons why you use this option at all.
<br><br>Several people have already given you "use cases" but this is not about<br>your opinion that an "everything" install is not useful. It's about<br>those users that want to do it (in spite of your opinion) being able to
<br>do it easily. Trying to make it difficult is just arrogance!<br><br>HTH<br>Richard Hally<br><br><br><br></blockquote></div><br>yum --exclude='jeff|<span class="q">Rahul' update users reading<br><br>I think many of you are missing the key point that is being made of "why" everything "click" is not good "NOW", not in the past, not in fc4/3/2/1 but now and beyond.
<br><br>At some point, probably fc6 an "EVERYTHING" install could end up pulling in Extras and possibly some other 3rd party repos (which will be intresting for the users that don't know about mix'n'match of certian ones). Which means it will get freaking UGLY if you do EVERYTHING.
<br><br>Instead of trying to maybe lessen the number of install cd/dvd's Fedora will end up looking like Debian Sarge, if you don't know what that means, Debian Sarge has 14 Cd's or 2 DVD's now,<br><br>FOURTEEN!!!!! Do you really want to sit on your pipe while 14 iso's are pulled down just so you can click EVERYTHING? Because in the future that is what your asking for now.
<br><br><br>Me, I want one iso. Core + Gnome I'll use yum for the rest because guess what, thats what it does it d/l handles dep's with out the need to d/l iso after iso to grab a few rpm's here and there. with pup/piruit the user can be new and not even have to know yum exist and open up a cli if that grabs them.
<br><br>If you just have to have that much software installed and affraid you might loose interent connection, start rsync'n the mirror to your local drive. Apparently space isn't a concern because one of these days the everything (click on every peice of software known to be on a fedora) install which I dunno, guessing is up to 6-7gb by now will start hitting 10gb in the future.
<br><br>Anyway, the rants over but a lot of you are missing the key points that Jeff and Rahul are bring up (maybe some others, thread is up to 113 emails now, I'm not searching). Someday, everything is going to be so huge and ugly to do it would be nuts.
<br><br>Don't just look at today, look down the road at what is going on and what is trying to be done.<br><br></span><br>