[OT] Re: Login on Fedora 17

[Joel Rees]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 6:07 AM, Joe Zeff <joe at zeff.us> wrote:
> On 04/11/2012 01:45 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
>>
>> But let's respect the wishes of the list rules enforcers, please. :)
>
>
> And in writing that, you've completely ignored the reason people get pointed
> to the test list and insulted those doing the pointing.

He says you've misinterpreted him, which is another communication sin
(in that it doesn't lead to communication) that we are all sometimes
prone to.

And my purpose in pointing this out is to argue in favor of a little
more latitude in general.

> The test list is intended for people who are using the next, un-released
> version of Fedora to help one another with issues and find out how to get
> everything working.

Heh. I tend to like to think of that as more as "debugging" the next
version than "using" it. Which is part of the point I'm going to try
to make.

> All of them are using it, at least part of the time and
> they're familiar with its issues, quirks and shortfalls.

If I'm going to be pedantic, I would say something like, "familiar
with the issues of debugging, and might have seen the quirks, bugs,
and shortfalls."

> We aren't, because
> the vast majority of us aren't interested in playing around with beta
> versions;

Technically speaking, we are playing around with the beta versions of
Enterprise.

> we're just interested in getting things done so we stick with the
> currently supported, officially released versions.

Well, some of us are interested in heads-ups and such.

But this particular question, the issues and work-arounds are not
exactly limited to the test version. In cases where a somewhat
experienced user is deciding to take the next step up and be a noob
with debugging, he or she is going to want to come back here to ask
basic questions from time to time, but the fact that the basic
question came up on a test system is still relevant.

> You don't go to a Linux
> list to ask Windows questions, so why should you go to a list for the
> production versions of Fedora to ask about a beta version?

Heh. If we were doing stand-up comedy here, that would be a great
straight line. I've been itching to say this for several months:

Oh, do you mean to say that we should consider MSWindows the alpha
version of Fedora?

(erk. I really should control myself. If my kids were listening, they
would be making the cold, lonely, desert wind sound now.)

> To me, and
> probably most of the people reading this, the sensible thing to do is to
> pick a list where the readers are using the same version you are, and right
> now, if you're working with F17, that's the test list.

If it were just a test question, I'd agree.

And, of course, he needs to be communicating with the test and devel
lists, so that someone can say, "Oh. Sorry. That was my fault. Grab
the next version of the image in about an hour." or, "Huh? What did I
do? Hang on a minute. In the meantime, can you try typing this here
and see what happens?" or something like that. (I gather that IRC is
often better than the mailing list for that, BTW.)

But when it comes to, "I'm lost! Can someone tell me to turn left or
right now in this twisty maze?" kinds of questions, we need to be
willing to pick up the slack here. The devel and test crew don't need
to waste their time suggesting single user mode.

> Believe it or not, like it or not, pointing members asking about F17 toward
> the test list *is* helping them because it's telling them where they can get
> their questions answered.

But arguing about what is appropriate here probably doesn't help
anyone on either list. Probably doesn't vent the real frustrations,
either.

--
Joel Rees