> I demonstrated several simple and practical commands that have
real-life<br />> use cases, where similar filtering would not be as
simple or direct with<br />> bare rsyslog. The addition of journald
was not arbitrary, and I was<br />> offering genuinely helpful advice,
not trolling.<br />> <br />> If my tone at the beginning suggested
otherwise, it was because I've seen<br />> threads like this turn into
"I like the old thing fine so Fedora should<br />> not<br />>
use the new thing" many, many times. The discussion is never
productive<br />> and rarely based on any technical technical argument
.<br />> <br />> As to your question, there are probably answers in
various mailing list<br />> archives. Fedora editions that wanted to
have rsyslog do, others do not.<br />> Consensus on the user support
mailing list is not a prerequisite for<br />> change. If you want to
participate in an effective and useful way, I'm<br />> happy to help
you find that path, but please don't lessen the value of<br />> this<br
/>> list with opinion rants and overtly negative attitudes.<br /><br
/>I do think your tone was a bit negative to my somewhat playful response
about losing my house.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>So I
don’t think I was “lessening the value of this
list”.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I can figure out
how to use journalctl and will if that is the direction we must move
in.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>However, someone must
speak for the trees.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Change by
its very nature is disruptive and by removing something like
/var/log/messages we create a butterfly effect.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Are you one of the developers that
made this change? <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Did you take
into account all the history we have had with that file?<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>If you are not one of the
developers, why argue the point anyway?<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>My hope is to catch the eye of the
decision makers and give them a point of view that perhaps they
didn’t have when making this decision.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Or is this the wrong place for such
a hope?
<p class="MsoNormal">It is true.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>You did demonstrate possible ways to use journalctl and I
appreciate that.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I'm not
against using it.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>However I do
also have the responsibility to teach the junior admins at my job how to
get things done on our systems.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>If we need to change, it takes not just learning the new way of
doing it, we have to change our documentation.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>In the case of the messages file,
we have to change a wide array of scripts that were developed over years
(sometimes by people no longer with us) to use a new process.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Why does this matter on Fedora?<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Well, isn't Fedora the building
blocks for Redhat Enterprise Linux?<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>If we change it here, won't it eventually make it there?<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Then it is no longer just an issue
for the Fedora crowd right?<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I
use Fedora because we use Redhat.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>Maybe that link isn't as pronounced for everyone else here but
those are _my_ reasons for wanting to moderate the changes.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Anyway, sorry for my reaction there but I think open
discussions as to the reasons for the changes are good and necessary.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>It could even be that we find out a
change will cause too much disruption from an open discussion just like
this one.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>^.^</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Consensus on the user support mailing list may not be
a prerequisite for change but it should have a strong bearing on said
change.</p>
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<![endif]-->---<br />Will Y.<br />--
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