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<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:56:59 PM) tw2113: MichaelBeckwith</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:57:00 PM) JonRob: JonRob here</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:57:04 PM) ricky: RickyZhou</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:57:08 PM) spevack: MaxSpevack</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:57:16 PM) giarc_w: CraigThomas</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:57:20 PM) spevack: mmcgrath: ping</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:57:50 PM) juank_prada: JuanCamiloPrada</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:57:55 PM) ivazquez: IgnacioVazquezAbrams</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:58:33 PM) spevack: I'm gonna wait a minute or two for mmcgrath,</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">since it's important that he be here also. Then we'll get started.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:58:47 PM) epkphoto [n=epkphoto@129.21.233.244] entered the room.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:58:51 PM) ricky: glezos: Are you around?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:58:56 PM) spevack: thank you all for being here</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:58:58 PM) mmcgrath: spevack: pong</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:59:08 PM) mmcgrath: spevack: thank _you_</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:59:19 PM) spevack: mmcgrath: didn't want to start without you</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:59:19 PM) ***ricky hopes that glezos will be able to help with</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">some l10n decisions :-)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:59:19 PM) glezos: ricky: I'm here</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:59:20 PM) spevack: ok. so let's roll...</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:59:22 PM) ricky: Ah, great.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:59:25 PM) glezos: DimitrisGlezo</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:59:26 PM) glezos: s</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:59:30 PM) spevack: TOPIC 1: Current status of things, as related</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">to the websites team and F9</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(07:59:35 PM) spevack: i'll start with a few words</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:00:07 PM) spevack: I've been a *customer* of the Fedoraw Websites</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">team for a while, but never really had too much insight into how it</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">all happens myself. It always Just Happens, so let's talk about it,</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">and lift the curtain from my eyes a bit too.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:00:18 PM) spevack: What are the things that are coming together here for F9?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:00:27 PM) spevack: I know we update the content on the non-wiki pages.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:00:29 PM) spevack: what else?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:00:35 PM) spevack: who's got the knowledge here to tell me what's going on</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:00:48 PM) mmcgrath: well I do.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:01:02 PM) mmcgrath: so basically some things just happen (mostly</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">thanks to ricky's self direction)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:01:21 PM) mmcgrath: but there's lots of stuff that people want to</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">have happen and its just not come together as a team yet.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:01:26 PM) mmcgrath: So things for F9 are coming along.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:01:35 PM) mmcgrath: I'm not sure if stuff is frozen for the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">translations team yet.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:02:05 PM) mmcgrath: spevack: are you wanting to know about actual</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">workflow? Or just a higher level view?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:02:15 PM) spevack: mmcgrath: i want to talk about a few things.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:02:35 PM) spevack: first, i want to talk specifically about F9</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">website content, and make sure that we're on target with whatever is</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">already in the pipeline</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:02:44 PM) spevack: then, i want to raise the discussion up a level</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:02:46 PM) mmcgrath: ah, so there's really 3 aspects to our websites.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:03:05 PM) mmcgrath: at the base layer is the infrastructure team.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">The proxy servers, caching ,etc.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:03:08 PM) spevack: and understand the general processes we go</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">through during non-release time, and then as we coordinate the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">websites around a release.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:03:23 PM) spevack: right</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:03:29 PM) mmcgrath: Right above that is the code that creates our</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">websites (typically a mix of infrastructure people and websites) and</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">above that is the look and feel of the site. Which is typically the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">websites team.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:03:34 PM) jmbuser [n=jmbuser@195.229.24.83] entered the room.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:03:43 PM) spevack: right.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:03:47 PM) mmcgrath: So for this release I've requested a list of</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">all the links we're going to give out in press releases and stuff.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:03:55 PM) ricky: spevack: The process during non-release doesn't</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">exist, and part of that is that we don't have a great process to</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">handle l10n yet.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:03:57 PM) mmcgrath: I'll be making sure those are cached in</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">memory. But thats not really "website stuff"</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:04:07 PM) ricky: So as I mentioned, I'm always afraid that making</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">a single change will bring translations out of sync.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:04:10 PM) spevack: it's the interface of infrastructure and web.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:04:44 PM) mmcgrath: ricky: glezos: do we have a deadline for when</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">we need to string freeze the website?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:04:44 PM) ivazquez: The non-release process is "someone suggests a</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">change and someone else implements it".</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:04:44 PM) spevack: ok, so still mmcgrath, that's one need that you</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">have. has that list been provided to you?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:04:47 PM) ivazquez: It's duct tape and chewing gum.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:04:49 PM) glezos: ricky: I think it's better to have correct</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">information on the website rather than having 100% translations of</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">faulty information.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:04:56 PM) mmcgrath: spevack: there's actually a meeting about it</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">later this week with releng, marketing, etc.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:05:09 PM) spevack: ok.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:05:21 PM) spevack: So item 1 -- the list of links and content that</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">are most important, and making sure we can serve those up under heavy</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">traffic.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:05:24 PM) glezos: mmcgrath: looking</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:05:30 PM) ricky: glezos: The way I see it, it's not so much about</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">faulty information as it is about new information</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:05:41 PM) glezos: mmcgrath: juding by the content volume I'd say</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">4-5 days translation period.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:05:56 PM) mmcgrath: spevack: and really thats not a websites</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">concern. They may put some of that content up, and design what it</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">looks like but its more releng and marketing to decide what canonical</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">links to give out.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:06:26 PM) spevack: mmcgrath: fair enough... so let's assume for a</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">moment, from the perspective of this meeting, that the list exists.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:06:28 PM) mmcgrath: just because its releng and marketing that</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">actually do the releases.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:06:30 PM) mmcgrath: <nod></td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:06:33 PM) spevack: What *is* important to Websites Team is the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">*content* on those pages.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:06:37 PM) glezos: ricky: if it's a whole page or sections it's</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">less of a problem than little changes here and there. So the whole</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">website will look ok except one page, which will gradually get more</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">translations.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:06:47 PM) mmcgrath: AFAIK the F9 content is in good shape, its</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">just not that different from the F8 content.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:07:14 PM) spevack: I assume we will be updating the get-fedora and</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">home pages.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:07:16 PM) mmcgrath: numbers and code names change.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:07:16 PM) mmcgrath: <nod></td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:07:16 PM) mmcgrath: ricky: do we have the F9 site up somewhere to</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">look at right now?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:07:20 PM) ricky: mmcgrath: <a href="http://publictest10.fedoraproject.org/">http://publictest10.fedoraproject.org/</a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:07:31 PM) giarc_w: we have verify page we want up for f9 as well</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(lots or requests for that post f8 launch)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:07:36 PM) ricky: Still need to add jigdo links on get-fedora.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:07:39 PM) giarc_w: *of</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:07:51 PM) mmcgrath: ricky: thanks.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:07:56 PM) spevack: ok... so I ask all of you now... are there any</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">big things needed for the immediate release of F9 that we need to</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">handle in this meeting, or shall we move to the next topic?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:08:13 PM) ricky: glezos: That's probably the right priority to go</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">with, but a set process would definitely make it easier on us :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:08:21 PM) mmcgrath: spevack: AFAIK, not for F9</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:08:54 PM) tw2113: screenshots?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:08:56 PM) mmcgrath: no big things anyway</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:08:56 PM) tw2113: i noticed we still have the old ones</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:08:56 PM) mmcgrath: tw2113: ahh, good catch.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:08:56 PM) mmcgrath: ricky: who provided those last time?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:08:56 PM) ricky: tw2113: Good point, those were kind of</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">last-minute for F8. Is most of the final artwork in rawhide yet?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:08:56 PM) ivazquez: It is.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:09:01 PM) ricky: mmcgrath: I did, day of the release, I think :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:09:03 PM) tw2113: i believe all the final artwork is in</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:09:19 PM) ***tw2113 has his desktop screenshot up on the site</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:09:21 PM) spevack: ok, so if the world isn't burning down for F9,</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">then I think we can trust that the websites content for this release</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">is pretty much good to go, and move the conversation to a larger</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">topic.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:09:21 PM) mmcgrath: ricky: hah, yeah lets make sure to get those</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">ahead of time.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:09:21 PM) jmbuser left the room ("Leaving").</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:09:39 PM) ***ivazquez was there when halfline requested the wave</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">artwork for inclusion</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:09:41 PM) tw2113: i'll provide a default desktop screenshot again</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">if you want</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:09:56 PM) spevack: I'm going to say what I think is important, and</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">then I'd like some of you guys to tell me what you think is important.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:10:07 PM) spevack: From my point of view, overall, the Fedora</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">Websites team needs to do a few things:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:10:12 PM) ricky: Cool, then who should I contact about getting</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">those? I should still remember the method that I used (not Xnest, but</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">Xephyr)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:10:44 PM) tw2113: i'll work with you on it tonight and tomorrow ricky</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:10:48 PM) ricky: tw2113: OK, thanks</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:11:12 PM) spevack: 1) Have new content around the releases</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:11:51 PM) spevack: 2) Work with artwork and infrastructure to</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">provide a service to various other parts of fedora</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:12:02 PM) spevack: 3) take ownership of the layout and look and</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">feel for *.fedoraproject.org</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:12:21 PM) spevack: and around all three of those points</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:12:27 PM) iWolf [n=jft@fedora/iWolf] entered the room.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:12:38 PM) spevack: is the question of what workflow and processes</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">we have, and what workflow and processes we need to help track things,</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">make things more efficient, etc.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:13:01 PM) ***mmcgrath agrees on those 3 points.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:13:03 PM) spevack: what do you guys think? There was a lot of</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">talk on the mailing list, it seemed, about the larger vision that</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">Fedora Websites needs to have</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:13:07 PM) ***spevack will shut up and listen now</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:13:12 PM) juank_prada: spevack: from all those points its that</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">comes the whole discussion that leads to this meeting</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:13:48 PM) tw2113: i'm no exception, but we have a lot of people</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">throwing ideas around, but no one creating actual visuals of those</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">ideas</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:13:51 PM) spevack: ricky: i have a question for you.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:13:58 PM) mmcgrath: Right now there's a workflow for making</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">changes. But not a workflow for really... accepting what changes get</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">made.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:14:30 PM) giarc_w: right, there is no peer review or 'approval',</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">changes just in or they don't</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:14:47 PM) mmcgrath: which is a common problem in Fedora for teams.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3"> Actual decision making is fuzzy.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:15:22 PM) juank_prada: the problem comes when those new ideas are</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">discarded because of the lack of that review or approval</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:15:23 PM) ***JonRob brb, it sounds like my wall is collapsing :S</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:15:31 PM) spevack: one of the things that i like about Fedora</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">Websites is its speed and flexibility</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:15:32 PM) tw2113: mentally, i'd really like to get some loose ends</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">on my side of things tied up, and then actually start actively helping</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">create on the website team</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:15:35 PM) spevack: if i want a change made to redhat.com, it takes</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">me a week.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:15:44 PM) juank_prada: then the website hangs for a long time</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">unchanged with the same content and makes it almost useless</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:15:45 PM) spevack: if i want a change made to fedoraproject.org,</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">it is usually done in a few hours.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:16:06 PM) tw2113: how many people do we have actually making the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">changes spevack ?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:16:11 PM) spevack: i don't know</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:16:11 PM) giarc_w: that speed is nice and important to keep i think</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:16:31 PM) spevack: whenever i need something done, I ask ricky</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:16:35 PM) ***mmcgrath looks at how many people can access it.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:16:50 PM) ivazquez: I think we have only about 3 people making changes.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:16:59 PM) giarc_w: there are a small handful who actually commit</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">content changes</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:17:01 PM) ricky: mmcgrath: 38</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:17:04 PM) ivazquez: Excluding tfx, of course.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:17:05 PM) tw2113: this may just be my naivety overall, but the two</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">people who i know actually making changes are ricky and mmcgrath</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:17:13 PM) tw2113: well, paul too</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:17:14 PM) mmcgrath: So all of these people have access to make</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">changes to the web.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:17:16 PM) mmcgrath: <a href="https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/dump/web">https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/dump/web</a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:17:17 PM) tw2113: just remembered</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:17:23 PM) ivazquez: And myself.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:17:25 PM) ricky: ivazquez: Good point, 37 or 36, then.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:17:28 PM) ***mmcgrath tries not to make changes ever... has no</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">idea what he's doing with css and html :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:17:31 PM) ivazquez: Although not recently.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:18:08 PM) spevack: ok, so let me ask a simple question that can be</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">+1 or -1'd</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:18:40 PM) spevack: Is one of the priorities of this team to "build</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">a more formal process around editing content on *.fp.o while also not</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">losing our flexibitiy to act quickly?"</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:18:49 PM) ricky: +1</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:18:51 PM) giarc_w: +1</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:18:55 PM) juank_prada: +1</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:18:55 PM) mmcgrath: +1</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:18:58 PM) glezos: +1</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:19:00 PM) ivazquez: How formal?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:19:05 PM) mmcgrath: just "more"</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:19:06 PM) spevack: ivazquez: not for me to say</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:19:15 PM) epkphoto: +1</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:19:16 PM) ivazquez: +1 then.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:19:16 PM) tw2113: 1+</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:19:21 PM) tw2113: :D</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:19:21 PM) mmcgrath: something other then just "ricky and ivazquez</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">sort of do it or they don't"</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:19:21 PM) giarc_w: right, just more, so we *have* a process</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:19:21 PM) Rasther: +1</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:19:27 PM) juank_prada: ivazquez: at least a process because whe lack of one</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:19:46 PM) giarc_w: nothing too complex, or anything</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:20:03 PM) mmcgrath: spevack: and there's two parts to that.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:20:12 PM) mmcgrath: 1) making changes (you or paul comes in and</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">says "I need this)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:20:14 PM) mmcgrath: and</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:20:17 PM) mmcgrath: 2) overhauls.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:20:35 PM) juank_prada: i agree with mmcgrath</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:20:38 PM) mmcgrath: and its 2) I think that juank_prada has</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">something in mind for and we've only done it one other time in the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">history of my being here IIRC.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:20:51 PM) mmcgrath: and it was when we created the website as a</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">way to avoid wiki breakdowns.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:21:12 PM) mmcgrath: so there was no real process, I think we just</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">went to some people like mizmo, got something together. I put some</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">requirements on it (size wise, etc) and it just went though.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:21:20 PM) giarc_w: overhauls seem to involve lots of other teams,</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">art, marketing and infra so we probably really need process to handle</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">bopth</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:21:22 PM) mmcgrath: now though we've been wanting to make all the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">websites look the same.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:21:47 PM) tw2113: cohesive looks +1</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:22:04 PM) juank_prada: but we still need to know which one is the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">look and feel wer are going to use...</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:22:13 PM) mmcgrath: we all want the sites to look the same</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(there's been a ticket open for a year now) but without the process</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">its been a non-starter.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:22:26 PM) ***spevack is being pulled away for about 2 mins... keep</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">talking, i'll read backward</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:22:57 PM) glezos: mmcgrath: I believe we have went a good way</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">towards that goal so far. I remember our websites a year ago and</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">everything was completely different than each other.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:23:03 PM) ricky: mmcgrath: If we already have know the look, then</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">I don't think it needs a process - it's just a simple task.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:23:56 PM) juank_prada: ricky: the process is still needed in order</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">to do that overhaul to the website</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:24:08 PM) mmcgrath: well how do we get the workerbees in to</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">actually make everything look the same then?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:24:14 PM) giarc_w: i would agree with ricky, once we do know, but</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">how do we decide?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:24:19 PM) ricky: juank_prada: I was referring to the theming, not</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">the overhaul.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:24:21 PM) mmcgrath: well here's a question (I'll ask for a +1 or -1)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:24:27 PM) juank_prada: ok</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:24:48 PM) mmcgrath: "We should change the look of the primary</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">website as what we have now should be changed, even if it is just a</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">little bit)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:24:52 PM) ***spevack reads backwards... sorry</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:25:16 PM) mmcgrath: so +1 or -1?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:25:18 PM) ***giarc_w does not understand the question ?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:25:30 PM) ***juank_prada is not sure to understand either</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:25:32 PM) ivazquez: "Should" is a bit loaded.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:25:35 PM) ricky: giarc_w: Should we change the theme on fp.o?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:25:43 PM) mmcgrath: So what we have at <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/">http://fedoraproject.org/</a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">is whats there. We've had people propose an overhaul to it.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:25:55 PM) mmcgrath: do we want to leave <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/">http://fedoraproject.org/</a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">or do we want to change it?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:26:08 PM) ivazquez: At least "more" in the previous question had a</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">single direction. "Should" fuzzes it too much.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:26:08 PM) mmcgrath: because as <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/">http://fedoraproject.org/</a> goes, so</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">goes the rest of our sites.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:26:13 PM) ***tw2113 points to the recent Suse website talk</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:26:19 PM) juank_prada: the thing is an overhaul doesnt really mean</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">that we need to change the look of the website</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:26:22 PM) spevack: ok... I have caught up.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:26:24 PM) tw2113: the 3 button front page</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:26:36 PM) juank_prada: and thats the whole idea of CSS thing</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:26:46 PM) spevack: let me share my perspective.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:26:47 PM) ivazquez: A better question is "If we want to change the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">site, do we have a definite direction we want to move in?".</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:26:56 PM) juank_prada: we can pretty much add content to the site</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">without altering the look of it</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:27:03 PM) spevack: there are folks here who don't remember the Old</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">Days of Fedora Website Doom</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:27:09 PM) ricky: And that's where I start to worry about translations.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:27:14 PM) ricky: ^(content)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:27:16 PM) spevack: we had fedora.redhat.com (which was never</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">updated and had horrible content)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:27:20 PM) glezos: I'm -1 for overhaul, at least until we have a</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">thorough study on how they should look. There are some minor fixes I'd</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">suggest, though, like decreasing the font size a bit in the menu.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:27:24 PM) spevack: and we had fedoraproject.org, which was only the wiki.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:27:37 PM) spevack: The "current" version of fedoraproject.org was</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">born out of two desires by me:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:27:51 PM) tw2113: I'm +1 for an overall as a long term goal</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:27:52 PM) spevack: 1) To kill fedora.redhat.com and remove all</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">fedora content from Red Hat machines</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:27:53 PM) spevack: and</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:28:04 PM) spevack: 2) to have a few static pages that could sit</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">above the wiki and provide a more professional look to our site.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:28:09 PM) tw2113: F10 to F11 timeframe</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:28:12 PM) spevack: So...</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:28:26 PM) spevack: now we also have planet, docs, fedorahosted, etc.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:28:39 PM) spevack: lots of other sites that are in the Fedora</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">world, and it would be nice to get a unified look and feel there.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:28:39 PM) glezos: spevack: +mirrors, transifex</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:28:51 PM) spevack: So that people can just realize "hey, this is a</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">Fedora Property"</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:29:19 PM) spevack: A common look and feel, as mmcgrath says, can</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">only come after there is a consensus of *what* that look and feel</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">should be</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:29:24 PM) tw2113: this topic reminds me of my alma mater</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:29:32 PM) spevack: some people like really minimal websites</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:29:35 PM) tw2113: they're still in the process of updating the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">entire span of the website</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:29:36 PM) giarc_w: -1 to overhaul look and feel until we have at</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">least caught up with making that 'hey, this is fedora' realization a</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">reality</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:29:40 PM) spevack: there's a million ideas for how to do a website.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:29:44 PM) juank_prada: spevack: in order to accomplish the idea of</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">the static page there should be information to be displayed in it...</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">right now the website lacks of information and all of it is being held</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">in the wiki which makes havin fp.o a lack of resources and a domain</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:29:47 PM) tw2113: and it's been a year long process</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:29:48 PM) mmcgrath: spevack: <a href="http://mmcgrath.fedorapeople.org/rhold/">http://mmcgrath.fedorapeople.org/rhold/</a> :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:29:49 PM) spevack: and i've been in enough meetings to realize</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">that most of them are ratholes</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:30:27 PM) spevack: there are a few key questions, IMHO</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:30:36 PM) spevack: and all design or engineering decisions come</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">from the answers to those questions</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:30:46 PM) spevack: 1) what information do we want to give?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:30:52 PM) spevack: 2) how often do we want to update information?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:30:58 PM) spevack: 3) who do we want updating information?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:31:15 PM) spevack: let me be honest with you all...</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:31:28 PM) spevack: i'm not really sure the best way to wrap my</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">head around this problem.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:31:33 PM) juank_prada: if you allow me to answer those questions,</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">ill try to do so from the point of view of a user</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:31:42 PM) spevack: juank_prada: go ahead</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:32:22 PM) juank_prada: 1) if the users look for the primary site</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">of a project (in this case fp.o) what he is looking for is primary</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">information about the project</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:32:58 PM) juank_prada: also, information about the state of the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">project, what thing are being donte, what is the difference between</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">this project and some other</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:34:05 PM) ***mmcgrath never goes to suse or ubuntu's website for</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">information about their projects.. I always go to download ubuntu or</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">suse.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:34:10 PM) juank_prada: if that information catch his attention he</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">will start digging in the site looking for more specific information,</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">wich my lead to a user looking for how to join or how to install/use</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">fedora</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:34:26 PM) ivazquez: How do you feel that we succeed on that account?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:34:46 PM) ivazquez: s/succeed/do/</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:35:02 PM) juank_prada: i dont really think that we are succeeding.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:35:04 PM) spevack: Well, look, I think there are a few fairly</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">distinct areas of work that we need to be operating in.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:35:14 PM) spevack: (1) Displaying appropriate content and</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">information on our websites.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:35:19 PM) tw2113: gotta go, cya all in the marketing meeting tomorrow :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:35:21 PM) spevack: (2) Theme and look and feel of *.fedoraproject.org</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:35:27 PM) ricky: tw2113: Thanks for coming</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:35:32 PM) spevack: (3) Process around getting changes (either</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">trivial or large) made.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:35:32 PM) giarc_w: ciao tw2113</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:35:46 PM) ricky: Content seems to be the big discussion right now</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:35:57 PM) giarc_w: yeah, i agree, content is king</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:35:58 PM) juank_prada: as i said before most of the information is</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">on the wiki, which makes having fp.o useless as at the end a user</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">looking for information wont stay on fp.o, instead he will be going to</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">the wiki</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:36:00 PM) JonRob: theme and look and feel is informed by content</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:36:04 PM) glezos: ricky: thankfully we've got a few examples we</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">could look at, I guess.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:36:12 PM) spevack: From the perspective of attacking all of these</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">things simultaneously, I think we need to be able to have some leaders</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">in each of those categories.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:36:55 PM) tw2113: just a note: content is king. you can style a</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">pile of poo 3 ways to sunday and throw some glitter on it to top it</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">off, but in the end it's still poo. get good content</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:37:13 PM) giarc_w: juank_prada, if the user finds information on</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">the wiki by using the website, how is that a useless web site?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:37:23 PM) giarc_w: seems to have worked to me</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:37:33 PM) spevack: here's the other key question -- Who Makes The</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">Final Decision?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:37:34 PM) ivazquez: juank_prada: Can you point to specific failure points?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:37:59 PM) spevack: Before we start working on a bunch of different</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">visions for content on fp.o, who is going to make the call of what we</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">go with in the end? Does Fedora need a "webmaster"?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:38:00 PM) juank_prada: giarc_w: the problem is how many clicks a</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">user need to do in order to reach information... in web engineering</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">that one of the things to deal with</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:38:28 PM) ***mmcgrath is under the constant opinion that the wiki</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">is not to be trusted, is confusing and suffers from a complete lack of</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">any vision whatsoever.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:38:33 PM) spevack: Someone that the websites team trusts to sort</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">of be the decision-maker from a content point of view, and someone</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(probably someone else) who can be the decision maker from a technical</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">point of view.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:38:40 PM) glezos: spevack: judging by the work/discussions we've</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">done so far and the progress seen, this big task sounds like a good</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">idea for a workshop at FUDCon.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:38:47 PM) spevack: glezos: yeah</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:39:11 PM) glezos: ie. a get-together attack instead of many</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">distributed people working on different tasks.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:39:12 PM) juank_prada: ivazquez: one would be the information</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">about spins... in the get fedora section we point to the mirrors to</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">download spins.. but we never said ther what are those, or whats the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">difference of those spins</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:39:17 PM) ivazquez: mmcgrath: Perhaps then we need to do away with</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">huge swaths of the wiki and make them static content instead.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:39:34 PM) spevack: When people come to the Fedora website, there</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">are two things that I want them to be able to do.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:39:35 PM) mmcgrath: ivazquez: I think there was a plan for that</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">but no manpower to do it.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:39:39 PM) spevack: 1) GET FEDORA</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:39:41 PM) ricky: juank_prada: There was talk of having an</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">explanatory spins.fp.o, but that never materialized :(</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:39:42 PM) spevack: 2) JOIN FEDORA</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:39:52 PM) spevack: we've done a good job of making that a reality.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:40:01 PM) MostafaDaneshvar [n=Mostafa@217.219.95.36] entered the room.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:40:27 PM) spevack: i think that the vision that was spins.fp.o is</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">exactly what "GET FEDORA" should become.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:40:31 PM) mmcgrath: ricky: and spins never came about because no</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">one ever gave us templates to incorporate. No worker beers.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:40:34 PM) mmcgrath: err worker bees.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:40:40 PM) JonRob: heh</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:40:51 PM) spevack: well, there are a lot of people in this meeting.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:40:54 PM) spevack: obviously a lot of people who care.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:41:00 PM) ***mmcgrath would have done that.... but it would have</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">come out terrible.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:41:06 PM) glezos: brb in 5</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:41:07 PM) glezos is now known as glezos_afk</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:41:11 PM) spevack: let me put it this way...</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:41:48 PM) juank_prada: mmcgrath: mizmo did a great job on some</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">templates to be used for spins.fedoraproject.org but as ivazquez said</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">it never materialized</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:42:01 PM) ivazquez: mmcgrath: How it looks is unimportant in the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">grand scheme of things.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:42:08 PM) spevack: If I were the King of Fedora, and I could just</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">present a vision and make it happen instantly, I focus all me efforts</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">on making it as simple as possible for people to join fedora (which</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">we've been doing well) and in making it as simple as possible for</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">people to see all the different Fedora spins that exist, and then have</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">a mechanism to either download them or build them on their own.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:42:21 PM) mmcgrath: juank_prada: nope, no templates were ever</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">given to me. Just mockups. There was one person on that team that</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">kept saying "I'll get you the templates" but I never got a thing.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:43:18 PM) daMaestro left the room (quit: "Leaving").</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:43:21 PM) giarc_w: I think that if we distrust the wiki, we should</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">identify the info we want from the wiki and make those pages static so</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">there is tighter control of it's message to users</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:43:32 PM) juank_prada: mmcgrath: i can work on it on this weekend</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:43:36 PM) spevack: Ok... we can talk in circles all day. But</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">here's my leadership/management style. It's to ask who is willing to</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">commit to a specific action.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:44:05 PM) JonRob: spevack: you beat me to that very question!</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:44:06 PM) mmcgrath: spevack: sounds like juank_prada just</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">committed (please correct me if I'm wrong)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:44:16 PM) spevack: and then to make sure that those actions all</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">tie together to a unified vision</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:44:31 PM) spevack: juank_prada: so, what exactly are you going to</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">take a look at and work on?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:44:36 PM) juank_prada: mmcgrath: you are right... ill start</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">working on the spins layout</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:44:38 PM) mmcgrath: but really juank_prada seems to be a guy that</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">has a vision for the website, and has even built some mockups.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:44:56 PM) spevack: great -- that's exactly the sort of design</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">leadership that we're looking for.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:44:58 PM) mmcgrath: juank_prada: do you have access to the web repo btw?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:45:18 PM) spevack: ok, so one item for next week's agenda is to</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">let juank_prada present his vision and show us whatever mockups he has</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">built.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:45:26 PM) juank_prada: i think ricky gave me access although ive</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">never had the time to commit any changes until now</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:45:35 PM) spevack: two -- ricky, correct me if I'm wrong, but it</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">seems like most actual process stuff tends to flow through you right</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">now.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:45:38 PM) mmcgrath: juank_prada: k, ping me in here or</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">#fedora-admin if you have any questions.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:45:40 PM) spevack: is that right?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:45:49 PM) ricky: spevack: Yeah.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:45:52 PM) juank_prada: mmcgrath: ok... :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:46:16 PM) ricky: But that ends up amounting to relatively little,</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">to be honest.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:46:26 PM) spevack: ricky: so, do you want to be in charge of doing</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">whatever you think is right to make the actual change processes more</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">scalable, better, etc. Basically taking ownership of being the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">interface between Infrastructure and Websites?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:47:00 PM) ricky: Sure thing (and l10n too)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:47:09 PM) spevack: ricky: this comes with no mandates from me,</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">other than to acknowledge that everyone looks at you as The Guy Who</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">Gets Stuff Done on The Website and to make sure you have the power to</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">construct those processes however you like.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:47:59 PM) spevack: ok, so how about for next week you be ready to</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">share with us wha tyou think is good, or where you think we need to</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">make improvements</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:48:11 PM) ***spevack keeps having his irc connection hang on</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">him... very annoying</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:48:42 PM) juank_ [n=juanky@200.114.38.35] entered the room.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:48:45 PM) spevack: ok, what else? mmcgrath, anything else that</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">was on your mind that we haven't touched on yet?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:48:53 PM) spevack: i don't expect to solve everything today, but I</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">want to see us moving forward.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:48:56 PM) juank_: sorry guys... internet crashed :S</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:49:03 PM) ricky: OK. There are two main things preventing us from</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">having more freedom with content - first, a unified vision for</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">content, and then the process for getting it in.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:49:12 PM) ricky: What can we do to resolve these?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:49:31 PM) JonRob: we could do like the art team does for art work,</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">re: vision for content</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:49:34 PM) giarc_w: ricky, are you including getting translated</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">content in those 2?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:49:35 PM) spevack: Here's the thing, folks... all of us can have</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">visions for the website, but we have to have a couple of people who</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">are empowered to actually build up test instances, let people play</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">with things, etc. We need some web engineers.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:49:36 PM) JonRob: or maybe that's over kill</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:49:41 PM) ricky: giarc_w: That's the process.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:49:54 PM) spevack: Do we need to do some recruiting?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:50:08 PM) juank_: that would be good</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:50:12 PM) ricky: juank_prada: I've seen some really insightful</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">discussions about content on the marketing/art lists.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:50:18 PM) ricky: juank_prada: Oops, I mean JonRob</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:50:37 PM) mmcgrath: recruiting is good, it might be best to make</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">sure we have something for people to do and that it can get put</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">through the process before we ask people to come though.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:50:40 PM) JonRob: yeah, i know the ones you mean ricky</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:50:53 PM) ivazquez: Perhaps we should get Marketing involved in</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">content generation.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:51:00 PM) giarc_w: ivazquez, +1</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:51:04 PM) JonRob: ok: here's my suggestion</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:51:05 PM) juank_: ivazquez: +1</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:51:12 PM) giarc_w: and or docs writers</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:51:27 PM) spevack: JonRob: go!</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:51:35 PM) JonRob: we take this week to discuss with marketing and</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">artwork, and anyone else who's interested, to get some visions for</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">what the websites need to become</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:51:36 PM) ricky: +1</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:51:47 PM) JonRob: it doesn't matter if we get one or several</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:51:50 PM) JonRob: but to get some ideas</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:52:07 PM) JonRob: we can talk about this next week and either a)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">figure which one we'd like to pick up and run with</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:52:23 PM) JonRob: it doesn't matter if it follows the original</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">spec perfectly, release early and often etc :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:52:30 PM) ivazquez: Absolutely. We're capable of doing the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">implementation, but without the ideas there's no point.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:52:34 PM) JonRob: or we can run with several and wittle it down as we go</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:52:52 PM) spevack: So, sorry if I'm repeating myself, but let me</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">ask this question:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:53:03 PM) spevack: Is what we lack a VISION FOR CONTENT, or PEOPLE</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">TO ACTUALLY DO WORK, or both?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:53:10 PM) ricky: Both, and a clear process.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:53:16 PM) ricky: So we have a lot of work to do :-)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:53:21 PM) epkphoto: both, especially the clear process part</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:53:25 PM) juank_: i agree with ricky</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:53:26 PM) ivazquez: More the former from my POV.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:53:31 PM) JonRob: i think with a vision would come more people to help</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:53:37 PM) spevack: ok, well I've appointed Ricky "process guy".</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:53:42 PM) giarc_w: vision, i think...it seems we have the hands to implement</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:53:50 PM) mmcgrath: spevack: really we're looking at the last</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">remnance of the way things used to be... One or two people just doing</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">the work. its like starting the websites team from scratch again.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:53:58 PM) spevack: juank_ has indicated that he wants to present</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">at least one vision of Content</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:54:10 PM) mmcgrath: stuff is getting done, but its because of the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">dedication of the individuals on the team, not the team itself. We</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">need to move to a team environment.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:54:20 PM) ivazquez: We've shown in the past that we can get the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">work done... when there's work to be done.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:54:29 PM) spevack: mmcgrath: *nod*</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:54:56 PM) spevack: well look, if we're basically rebooting the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">Fedora Websites team</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:55:09 PM) spevack: we need the interface to Infrastructure (ricky)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:55:15 PM) spevack: We need an interface to Artwork (???)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:55:26 PM) ricky: mizmo?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:55:29 PM) couf: Docs here</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:55:36 PM) spevack: mizmo would make sense</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:55:48 PM) ricky: quaid + couf?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:55:50 PM) mmcgrath: we probably shouldn't volunteer her without</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">her being here though.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:55:55 PM) ***abadger1999 has been watching the wrong channel :-(</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:56:14 PM) mmcgrath: ianweller might be another one.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:56:15 PM) giarc_w: tw2113, maybe as well</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:56:20 PM) ricky: mmcgrath: Ah, true.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:56:30 PM) ianweller: hmm?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:56:30 PM) ***ianweller wakes up</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:56:35 PM) ivazquez: We have no shortage of Art people in the Websites team.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:56:45 PM) spevack: I think we can get all sorts of good art.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:56:50 PM) giarc_w: (or infra)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:57:18 PM) juank_: but we first need to tell them what exactly is</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">what should be done.. and that will only happens after knowing what</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">kind of info will be shown</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:57:33 PM) ivazquez: Infra is more tightly defined though, so</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">having a single Infra POC is a good idea.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:57:34 PM) spevack: juank_: and you're going to present us with a</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">vision for that next week, right?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:57:42 PM) mmcgrath: <nod></td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:57:50 PM) mmcgrath: ricky: its up to you, do you want to be</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">primary infra POC or should I?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:57:53 PM) ***mmcgrath doesn't care.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:58:26 PM) ianweller: is this a meeting right now?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:58:28 PM) juank_: spevack: ill work on spins section... and i</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">already did a change to the first page on fp.o to manage some other</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">content</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:58:39 PM) giarc_w: ianweller, yep</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:58:39 PM) spevack: juank_: excellent.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:58:50 PM) ricky: mmcgrath: Sure - it'll be good to have two people :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:59:44 PM) ***ricky suddenly wonders about news.fedoraproject.org</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:59:46 PM) spevack: ok, what else do you guys want to talk about?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">Do people feel like we've made any progress in this hour? At least</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">identified a few issues and started to carve out some ownership</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(08:59:59 PM) JonRob: ricky: progres is being made :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:00:13 PM) ricky: Eeeexcellent :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:00:15 PM) juank_: somebody to help ricky would be good... as he</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">pointed in the ml he was very busy with FAS2 so ther should be</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">somebody else so ricky dont get overwhelmed with tasks</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:00:53 PM) ricky: juank_: +1!</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:01:00 PM) giarc_w: i'll over to help, where ever I can, just point me</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:01:03 PM) giarc_w: offer</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:01:04 PM) ivazquez: I can help with the VCS part, but I don't know</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">the metal that well.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:01:04 PM) spevack: I have one more question</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:01:12 PM) spevack: actually, no i don't</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:01:16 PM) spevack: i think we have enough swirling right now</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:01:25 PM) mmcgrath: juank_: yeah, ricky and I will just keep the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">lines open with eachother. Ricky's off to college soon too so I</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">suspect he doesn't quite know how much free time is in his future :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:01:26 PM) ricky: I should start to be more open with the process</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">on the ml (and with asking people to do stuff)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:01:34 PM) ianweller: so do we need a point of contact for artwork?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:01:39 PM) ricky: Yeah :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:01:52 PM) giarc_w: i have a question about translations: what are</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">we planning to do with new pages that do not have translations?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:01:54 PM) ivazquez: And maybe we should have one for Marketing as well.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:02:07 PM) spevack: Who will be at FUDCon boston?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:02:08 PM) ***ricky</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:02:09 PM) giarc_w: should they wait, or do in</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:02:11 PM) giarc_w: ?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:02:14 PM) giarc_w: go</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:02:21 PM) ***ivazquez nominates juank_ for the Marketing POC</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:02:29 PM) ricky: giarc_w: At this point, I'm with go in.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:02:39 PM) giarc_w: ok</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:02:41 PM) ianweller: i'd be willing to be an artwork POC, you</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">could ask tw2113 too, and make sure you let mizmo know</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:02:42 PM) ricky: giarc_w: But I'd feel much better if I could put</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">it in and know that it'd be translated within say, 2 weeks.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:03:09 PM) ricky: ianweller: We should probably email a few lists</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">about this soon</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:03:10 PM) giarc_w: <nod> how can we do that ?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:03:18 PM) juank_: i wouldnt mind to be the Marketing POC if you</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">all agree with that</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:03:36 PM) couf: juank_: hired</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:03:36 PM) juank_prada left the room (quit: Read error: 110</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(Connection timed out)).</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:03:38 PM) JonRob: no problems here :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:03:38 PM) giarc_w: +1 for juank_ POC with marketing</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:03:38 PM) MostafaDaneshvar left the room ("Konversation terminated!").</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:03:38 PM) ricky: giarc_w: One idea that I mentioned was a sort of</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">website translation cycle that l10n would be aware of (although I'm</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">not sure how much that could affect our speed/flexibility)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:04:30 PM) spevack: ok... so I think we're about ready to adjourn</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">the official part of this meeting, though everyone can keep talking.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">JonRob... about that volunteering to be secretary? Will you get a log</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">posted and also glean out of it the various action items that we have?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:04:41 PM) JonRob: yep</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:04:47 PM) JonRob: lol is the only reason i'm here really!!</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:04:47 PM) ricky: Important thing: Next meeting time?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:04:53 PM) spevack: JonRob: thank you -- i cannot tell you how much</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">i appreciate that.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:04:55 PM) ricky: We're on top of a docs meeting now, I think.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:04:58 PM) ricky: JonRob: Thanks!</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:05:11 PM) JonRob: np - good excuse for avoiding essay writing :p</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:05:50 PM) ricky: So wednesdays are really good for me, except for</td></tr>
<tr id="t20:10"><td class="other" colspan="2">- 21:30 UTC or so.</td><td><a href="#t20:10" class="time">20:10</a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:06:11 PM) ricky: What other days/times are convenient for everybody?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:06:27 PM) juank_: i cant really do on wednesday... i rather</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">mondays o fridays ... (today was an exception)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:06:39 PM) ianweller: i have school and usually i can pop in IRC</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">about 20:00-21:00 UTC on weekdays.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:06:53 PM) ianweller: any time before that is impossible for me</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:07:02 PM) JonRob: shall i set up a matrix on the wiki? or is that overkill?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:07:08 PM) JonRob: i know it works for docs</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:07:20 PM) ***giarc_w is pretty flexible and will be able to make</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">most any time</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:07:23 PM) ricky: JonRob: That'd be great, can you post a link</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">along with the meeting log?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:07:30 PM) ***ricky actually has to run now, since it's almost 20:10 :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:07:41 PM) JonRob: yep...hopefully all should be up later tonight</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:07:49 PM) ianweller: cool</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:08:09 PM) ricky: All right, then - thanks a lot, everybody.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:08:14 PM) JonRob: though if anyone wants to let me know how to do</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">the irc to html conversion so it looks swish on the wiki that'd be</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">cool</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:08:18 PM) ricky: spevack: and thanks for stepping up to make this happen1</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:08:44 PM) JonRob: yep - you guys got some good work done this eve,</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">congrats to all</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:08:44 PM) spevack: ricky: well, i'll drive these meetings for the</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">forseeable future. If there's one skill I have, it's repeating "who's</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">doing X" over and over again :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:08:45 PM) couf: JonRob: talk to jmbuser he knows how it works</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:08:55 PM) spevack: so is there a plan to figure out the next meeting time?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:09:00 PM) ricky: JonRob: Sending the log to the mailing list is convenient.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:09:01 PM) JonRob: couf: thanks</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:09:09 PM) JonRob: ricky: i'll do both</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:09:10 PM) ricky: (Infrastructure does that + a link to the ml post</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">from the wiki)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:09:29 PM) ricky: spevack: So far, it looks like wiki matrix +</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">boucing times around on the ml</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:09:33 PM) ricky: JonRob: Thanks a lot</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:09:35 PM) spevack: ok</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:09:57 PM) spevack: ok, well we'll see you all next week... and</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">I'll be hounding folks on the ML who accepted action items. :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:10:02 PM) spevack: Thanks for coming, all</td></tr>
<tr><td class="other" colspan="3">(09:10:08 PM) spevack: ============ adjourned ==============</td></tr>
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