How can we improve the spin?

Sat Jun 30 21:36:54 UTC 2012

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Jayson Rowe <jayson.rowe at gmail.com> wrote:

> What's up everybody.
>
> I've debated this mail for a while - I'm the 'new kid' around these
> parts, but in a short time I've developed quite a passion around
> Fedora, and especially the Xfce spin. I've put some thought and
> research into this, so thanks for humoring me and reading.
>
> As great as our spin is, I know it can be better. In reality anything
> can be better - there should be a constant evolution of improvements.
> I know as Xfce users, we are a smaller niche group from what would use
> the default Desktop spin, or perhaps even the KDE spin. It is true,
> however that Xfce is experiencing a spike in popularity lately.
>
> Now, although I've only recently finally made the full switch back to
> Fedora (I used RHL and Fedora through Core2 before switching) I only
> regret not coming back sooner.
>
> Now to the point at hand, how can we make Fedora's Xfce spin
> first-class. I guess first, we have to define what *is* first class. I
> loaded up different distros with Xfce in VM's and poked around, just
> to see how they looked and felt, and my only real impressions were:
>
> a) many aspects of panel layout/themes are very much personal preference
>
> ---and---
>
> b) sadly, every Xfce 'spin' I tried felt at least somewhat more
> polished than Fedora's out-of-the box presentation in one way or
> another...
>
> There are tons of screenshots on the web, but here are mine from my
> VMs (with my thoughts for each).
>
> Xubuntu:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/xubuntu_12_04.png
>
> So - looks nice. Greybird is my favorite theme. The wallpaper has been
> the same for at least 2, maybe 3 releases (I think, Charlie Kraviez
> can correct me on this I'm sure as he was one the Xubuntu Project
> Leader).
> I never liked the 'auto-hide' dock...in fact, I generally hate the
> 'extra' Xfce panel anyway. The Icons look nice, all of the icons in
> the system tray match, everything looks smooth, integrated and blends
> together.
>
> Sabayon 9:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/sabayon_9.png
> Although not really a 'mainstream' distro, I really only loaded it up
> out of curiosity to see what they had done w/ Xfce since most of the
> reviews and stuff online focus on the GNOME and KDE spins of this
> distro. I actually kinda like what they did. A 2 panel layout that
> could easily appeal to GNOME2 refugees, but still different from a
> GNOME2 layout. Again, nice icons, although everything doesn't match as
> nicely as in Xubuntu, still looks pretty polished. The default theme
> is nice (looks to be custom to the distro, perhaps) and the use the
> default Xfce window decorations.
>
> openSUSE 12.2 (Beta):
> In terms of competition for similar user-bases, I would think of
> openSUSE and Fedora to have the two most similar potential user bases.
> I like the single panel layout, although the icons seems stock Xfce,
> they look nicely integrated. The mixer applet on the panel (Gmixer)
> doesn't seem to be in our repos, but the icon for it looks nicer than
> the faded icon w/ the blue half-circles we have w/ the default Xfce
> mixer applet. They are using Adwaita for a GTK theme, and a custom
> window decoration (that seems closely based on the default Xfce
> decorations).
>
> Linux Mint Debian Edition:
>
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/linux_mint_debian_edition.png
> I find the GTK theme a little too 'white' (along w/ the default
> wallpaper), but both the theme and window decorations seem to be
> modified versions of Greybird. Green (aka Mint) icons, but all of the
> icons match, look nicely integrated, and the system tray icons match,
> except for using the same mixer icon we use.\
>
> And now, we all know the default Fedora 17 look:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/f17_default.png
> Here I will point out mainly what I don't like: First, I don't like
> the borders around the clock and notification area...just looks
> unfinished to me. I also wish the Applications Menu icon were the
> Fedora logo. I think the Adwaita theme works well (supports GTK3), but
> the Nodoka window decorations look dated. I hate the mixer icon, but
> like the rest of the 'Fedora' icon set.
>
> This next screenshot is how *I* would improve the look we have now,
> sticking with a same/similar layout:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/f17_alt_a.png
> Changes? The Fedora logo for the Applications Menu, no borders around
> the clock and notification area, and the default Xfce window
> decoration. Before I took this screenshot, I also ugraded to 4.10, and
> added the 'Action Buttons' plugin to the panel.
>
> Next, I simply eliminate a *personal* pet peeve - the second, bigger
> panel that doesn't take up the entire width of the screen. It seems
> wasteful to me (especially with maximized windows). I also reduced the
> top panel to 24px.:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/f17_alt_b.png
>
> The next layout would appeal to GNOME 2 refugees:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/f17_alt_c.png
> A second (24px) panel is added back, and a places applet displaying
> label only is added to the top panel. Reduced the text of the App menu
> button to just display 'Applications'. This layout looks very much
> like GNOME2 (to me anyway).
>
> Next, is a layout similar to what openSUSE had:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/f17_alt_d.png
> A single bottom panel, 24px.
>
> Finally, is basically what I'm using:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/f17_alt_e.png
> It's the same as the last layout, but using Greybird and the
> Elementary icon theme. For my personal use, I'm still a little torn
> between this and Adwaita, however I think the Elementary icon theme
> looks SO much nicer, even that ugly mixer icon is fixed ;-) It just
> looks more polished and integrated. I know everyone doesn't like the
> darker grey panel look/menus etc...
>
> So...now that I've said all of that what do you think? Like I said, I
> was torn about jumping in as a new guy with suggestions, but I figured
> why not...the worst y'all could do is say 'go away, your bothering
> me'...so I did it.
> Other thoughts I've had is, what other things do we do as a 'SIG'. I
> noticed an e-mail from Rex Dieter to fedora-devel speaking of a KDE
> SIG meeting - have we as a SIG ever had IRC meetings? Would there be
> any value? Would anyone attend? Since I'm just now jumping in, has
> there been other recent discussion I've missed about plans for F18? I
> know Kevin has spoken of moving to LightDM, and has included Greybird
> as being installed by default in the spin for F18.
>
> I'm not looking to ruffle feathers, just get discussion going and make
> Fedora 18's Xfce spin even more awesome.
>
> Thanks for reading!
> Jayson
> --
> -jayson
> _______________________________________________
> xfce mailing list
> xfce at lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce

I have stayed away from this intentionally. Xubuntu kept the same wallpaper
for two releases. Traditionally, the wallpaper has been changed for each
release, to give users something to look forward to.

Unfortunately, contrast in Xubuntu themes has almost disappeared. Greybird
was a good theme. Also, with Xubuntu 12.04, they decided the terminal needs
to be low contrast. These contrast changes make Xubuntu unusable by many. I
would hope Fedora will not follow that low/no contrast change.

I have vision issues. I can not see low contrast displays. I also need
large fonts. After six years with Xubuntu, I simply found I wanted a
change. I will experiment with different distributions until I find one
that works well for me again.

-- 
Charlie Kravetz
Registered Linux User # 425914
ref link http://counter.li.org/
charlie.kravetz at gmail.com
Don't let anyone steal your dream!
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