<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 12:04 AM, Christoph Wickert <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:christoph.wickert@googlemail.com">christoph.wickert@googlemail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Am Dienstag, den 08.03.2011, 21:00 +0100 schrieb Martin Sourada:<br>
<div class="im">> On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 19:43:34 +0100<br>
> Christoph Wickert wrote:<br>
</div><div class="im">> > Nevertheless I feel that upstream's panel layout still has room for<br>
> > improvement, especially the bottom panel: It takes way too much space<br>
> > but only has little use.<br>
> ><br>
> > Some toughs:<br>
> > * Hide it automatically so it doesn't waste so much space.<br>
> I believe that would confuse some users. It's probably better to not<br>
> hide it be default, IMHO.<br>
<br>
</div>+1. One more reason: The hide function didn't work properly, at least in<br>
Xfce 4.6 the panel often remained on the screen after clicking a<br>
launcher.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> > * If we leave the height as is, we should at least add ore<br>
> > buttons so it becomes more useful.<br>
> Yeah, currently it is mostly nothing more then space eater.<br>
<br>
</div>I think we all agree on that.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> > * Only have a single panel.<br>
> Only if there are not too many applets. I hate it when there is too<br>
> little space left for tasklist. Plus, lately, systemtray tends to<br>
> expand exponentially (volume control, ibus, network, power, various<br>
> apps that can hide there, ...). This almost calls for having it on<br>
> different panel than tasklist, IMHO.<br>
<br>
</div>Let's see how much plugins we have.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> > MUST have plugins:<br>
> > * applications menu<br>
> > * tasklist<br>
> > * systemtray<br>
> > * pager<br>
> +1 for all<br>
><br>
> > * a clock, I suggest datetime<br>
> Personally I prefer orage. What we IMHO need is: short weekday + short<br>
> date + hh:min displayed, in tooltip long date (with weekday) and on<br>
> click calendar.<br>
<br>
</div>I don't think we can ship these tweaks because they are in the panel's<br>
rc files while we can only modify the default.xml file. Means we can<br>
decide what plugins to use but not necessarily their configuration.<br>
<br>
Another reason to go with the default config is the fact that time and<br>
date formats differ a lot based on the user's locale. We should just on<br>
the plugin using proper defaults from the system.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> Datetime seems to almost support this, but the layout<br>
> is horrible (two lines are just too much for small panel). Orage on the<br>
> other hand does not open the calendar beside the applet but in the<br>
> centre of the screen.<br>
<br>
</div>The position should be saved be xfwm4. I can put it where I want it, but<br>
frankly speaking I dislike orage and never use it.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> > * mixer<br>
> Don't we have volume control (pulseaudio) in systemtray already?<br>
<br>
</div>this is gnome-sound-applet and we want to get rid of it for several<br>
reasons:<br>
* it lacks the icon (bug 678696)<br>
* it's GTK+3 and we don't have a fitting theme<br>
* it's not supposed to be in the spin, in the latest nightly it's<br>
no longer their because dependencies on the GNOME side have<br>
changed.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> Either<br>
> way, since sound in fedora is best handled by pulseaudio, whatever<br>
> mixer applet we have, it needs to be able to work with pa nicely, not<br>
> just show master control for it...<br>
<br>
</div>I think xfce4-mixer-plugin is ok for the panel where you only do Master<br>
channel. The command to launch the mixer on click can be configured, so<br>
we can even call pavucontrol from xfce4-mixer-plugin.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> > SHOULD have plugins<br>
> > * some launchers: browser, filemanager, terminal, mail client<br>
> +1, maybe add music player and instant messaging to the lot<br>
<br>
</div>These are problematic because we are configuring xfce4-panel not only<br>
for the spin but the package itself. We cannot be sure if pidgin or<br>
quodlibet are always installed. The launchers for browser, mail client,<br>
filemanager and terminal on the other hand call exo-open, which is<br>
always there and will open the apps set in exo-preferred-applications.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> > * actions: lock screen, log out<br>
> +1<br>
<br>
</div>we also could consider the session menu for this, it combines all the<br>
commands and some more.<br>
<div class="im"><br></div></blockquote><div>For me the session menu didn't work really reliable! I would go for two separate buttons, one for locking the screen and one for calling the shutdown menu.<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im">
> > * show desktop<br>
> I'm not sure, I've never used it, and people seem to complain both when<br>
> it's there and it isn't :-D<br>
<br>
</div>It's in the default config for quite a while, I think we should not<br>
remove it.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> > * folder menu<br>
> Maybe too complex, does not integrate with bookmarks. Does not include<br>
> mounted volumes. There does not seem to be a way to show text<br>
> instead of/alongside the folder icon. I believe Places would work<br>
> better.<br>
<br>
</div>Ok, but ATM places unfortunately doesn't handle removable media<br>
correctly either (bug 678432).<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> > * thrash<br>
> Again, I don't incline either way here. I personaly use it, but it<br>
> feels a bit like duplicating things when it's already present on<br>
> desktop.<br>
<br>
</div>Same as desktop I think.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> > More suggestions? Let us hear them!<br>
> Remove frames all the applets. It looks soo oldish.<br>
<br>
</div>Not sure if we can do it. We'd have to patch all plugins because we<br>
cannot provide the configuration for them and new plugins should also be<br>
borderless by default.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> Use start-here<br>
> (themed) icon for applications menu, that's what they're people used<br>
> from gnome and kde and maybe change the label (I don't recall from the<br>
> top of my head what was there, but I changed it to Applications) to<br>
> better suggest what it does.<br>
<br>
</div>Good point, we had this in 4.6 and need to bring it back but I think it<br>
requires a change in the fedora-logos package (because the icon we use<br>
is in there and must be for legal reasons).<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> Consider weather applet, I don't have usability studies regarding that,<br>
> but most people I know use something like that. Would be nice if the<br>
> location could be synced with timezone like in gnome but that's a<br>
> harder goal. The way it is now it wouldn't probably work out of box so<br>
> maybe fix this issue first and then consider adding it.<br>
<br>
</div>xfce4-weather-plugin uses the IP address to determine the location of<br>
the user. But it doesn't really work 100% reliably and exact of course.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> Plus, we *could* consider theming the panels a little instead of using<br>
> just plain color, all the above listed applets seems to work with it<br>
> nicely.<br>
<br>
</div>I think this should go into the theme, just as the changes for the<br>
desktop icons we proposed. The theme should provide styles for them in<br>
it's gtkrc.<br>
<br>
Thanks for all your input,<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5">Christoph<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
xfce mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:xfce@lists.fedoraproject.org">xfce@lists.fedoraproject.org</a><br>
<a href="https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce" target="_blank">https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>