(08:00:26 PM) inode0: FAmNA meeting time
(08:00:30 PM) inode0: Roll Call
(08:01:46 PM) ***lcafiero is playing the role of Larry Cafiero
(08:01:56 PM) DemonJester: .fas bpowell01
(08:01:57 PM) zodbot: DemonJester: bpowell01 'Brian Powell'
(08:02:42 PM) ***lcafiero give a sideward glance and mutters, "showoff" :-)
(08:03:03 PM) DemonJester: :P
(08:03:14 PM) ***inode0 notes that doing that is very helpful for
creating the attendee list
(08:03:25 PM) lcafiero: .fas lcafiero
(08:03:26 PM) zodbot: lcafiero: lcafiero 'Larry Cafiero'
(08:03:45 PM) ***inode0 also notes it opens you up to spam :)
(08:03:47 PM) lcafiero: there
(08:04:07 PM) DemonJester: yeah I noticed that..
(08:04:19 PM) lcafiero: Just us three?
(08:04:31 PM) inode0: ok, let's begin - we can assign a lot of tasks
tonight I think
(08:04:34 PM) DemonJester: 15 minute meeting!
spevack spot spstarr_work
(08:04:49 PM) lcafiero: +1
(08:05:18 PM) inode0: My only announcement is that I attended
spevack's class for ambassadors and thought it was really valuable -
points others to times it will be repeated.
(08:05:34 PM) DemonJester: was it logged?
(08:06:07 PM) inode0: I imagine so but since I was there I guess I
don't know - they post logs of all classes don't they?
(08:06:20 PM) DemonJester: I hope so..
(08:06:46 PM) inode0:
(08:06:56 PM) lcafiero: thanks, inode.
(08:07:09 PM) DemonJester: thanks!
(08:07:42 PM) inode0: 1st agenda item tonight is FADNA
(08:07:57 PM) lcafiero: Announcement: We had an F10 event at the
Felton LUG monthly installfest in Felton, Calif., on Saturday. I gave
out about 15 Live CDs and got to install it in front of everyone.
(08:08:07 PM) lcafiero: It went very well.
(08:08:11 PM) lcafiero: Sorry inode0
(08:08:15 PM) inode0: np
(08:08:31 PM) inode0: herlo had a party too as reported in his blog
(08:08:45 PM) DemonJester: mine is this coming saturday
(08:09:14 PM) inode0: mine is being delayed likely until students come
back in January
(08:09:49 PM) inode0: alright, I'd like to get some idea of what to do
(08:10:19 PM) inode0: I don't think a group of us will ever agree
completely in the abstract about where and when to do it
(08:10:28 PM) DemonJester: agrees
(08:10:29 PM) lcafiero: True.
(08:10:50 PM) inode0: so I think someone needs to latch onto it and
make it happen somewhere
(08:10:53 PM) lcafiero: But I think we can agree, or discuss, that we
should hold FADNA in conjunction with another event, rather than
having it as a stand alone, no?
(08:11:23 PM) inode0: we have discussed it several times, some people
think yes and others think no
(08:11:39 PM) lcafiero: Yeah, I know, but we should probably nail that down, no?
(08:11:46 PM) inode0: I'm happy to discuss it further, I think the
three of us say yes?!
(08:12:00 PM) ***lcafiero has been swayed to the
(08:12:04 PM) DemonJester: I am a yes to hold it with other events
(08:12:06 PM) lcafiero: Yes.
(08:12:19 PM) lcafiero: Then it's unanimous! :-)
(08:12:24 PM) DemonJester: lol
(08:12:31 PM) DemonJester: next item....
(08:12:32 PM) lcafiero: SCaLE is Feb. 20-22
(08:12:51 PM) inode0: SELF is June 13
(08:13:13 PM) inode0: those seem to be the two candidate events
(08:13:14 PM) lcafiero: It'll be tight, but I think holding it with
SCaLE would be good.
(08:13:39 PM) lcafiero: Choices are L.A. or SELF is in Charleston?
(08:13:46 PM) lcafiero: Do you know, inode0?
(08:13:47 PM) inode0: can we get free facilities at SCaLE?
(08:13:58 PM) inode0: SELF is in Clemson
(08:14:13 PM) lcafiero: I'm looking into that. Trading e-mails with
organizers on a few different issues.
(08:14:17 PM) ***lcafiero may present a paper there.
(08:14:38 PM) lcafiero: But I can have more answers by next week.
(08:14:54 PM) inode0: what do you perceive the advantages of SCaLE to
be aside from it being over there?
(08:15:34 PM) DemonJester: A ton of attendees.. At least from what I
have heard about the event
(08:15:37 PM) lcafiero: It's near me . . . relatively speaking. :-)
But other than this it is a growing gathering, probably the biggest
Linux event next to LinuxWorld in California
(08:15:48 PM) ***inode0 is not disagreeing about being "over there" as
(08:16:07 PM) lcafiero: One caveat is that they're holding it in the
same hotel as last year, and last year people were flowing out of the
conference rooms since it was so well attended
(08:16:16 PM) inode0: Isn't it similar in size to OLF?
(08:16:30 PM) lcafiero: I don't know how big OLF is, but I would gather it is.
(08:16:35 PM) inode0: about 1000
(08:16:52 PM) lcafiero: That sounds like SCaLE numbers.
(08:16:57 PM) lcafiero: Where was OLF held?
(08:17:04 PM) inode0: Columbus, OH
(08:17:11 PM) lcafiero: An auditorium? Hotel? Stadium?
(08:18:00 PM) lcafiero: Yeah, this is in a Westin, which is a -1 for location.
(08:18:14 PM) inode0: Advantages I see for SELF are:
(08:18:16 PM) lcafiero: It's usually packed, and they need to consider
holding it in a larger venue.
(08:18:29 PM) inode0: (1) Free facilities for our use
(08:18:47 PM) inode0: (2) Cheap housing made available to us by the university
(08:19:09 PM) inode0: (3) Supporting a brand new regional community conference
(08:19:11 PM) DemonJester: dorms??
(08:19:23 PM) inode0: more like student apartments I think
(08:19:29 PM) DemonJester: wow!
(08:19:42 PM) inode0: cost is something like $25/night
(08:19:50 PM) inode0: can be a little more or less
(08:20:10 PM) lcafiero: That definitely would outdo anything I can get
in L.A., price wise.
(08:20:17 PM) lcafiero: Without taking hostages, that is.
(08:20:22 PM) inode0: Disadvantages:
(08:20:38 PM) inode0: (1) Clemson is a pretty clumsy location to get
to for those flying
(08:21:00 PM) inode0: (2) June 13 is likely within 3 weeks of FUDcon
(08:22:18 PM) inode0: It would be nice to have some idea of whether we
can get some funding this year for this event (wasn't clear to me
where it falls exactly)
(08:22:50 PM) DemonJester: we need that clarified first in my opinion
(08:22:58 PM) lcafiero: Wouldn't funding for SELF be in the next quarter?
(08:23:01 PM) inode0: if we could even help 2 people get across the
country either way that would be nice to know
(08:23:11 PM) lcafiero: as opposed to funding for SCaLE which would be
(08:23:28 PM) inode0: good point
(08:23:35 PM) lcafiero: I would be glad to keep looking into SCaLE if
someone wants to take the ball on SELF
(08:23:47 PM) lcafiero: ke4qqq, white courtesy phone
(08:23:56 PM) inode0: spevack in the town hall mentioned working on
something that might affect this as well
(08:24:25 PM) lcafiero: That's right. I have to talk to him about
something else, so should I also bring this up?>
(08:25:16 PM) inode0: yes please - nail down if you can what he is
trying to arrange for FADNA and any suggestions he might have for how
we should proceed with planning one for the 1st half of 2009
(08:25:41 PM) lcafiero: Aye sir.
(08:25:49 PM) inode0: I've done work with SELF as has ke4qqq and we
have the door open
(08:26:16 PM) lcafiero: Other than the location, it looks like SELF
(08:26:21 PM) lcafiero: over SCaLE
(08:26:24 PM) inode0: we can do something other than FADNA there
though, it doesn't have to be FADNA
(08:26:57 PM) inode0: but if we decide to go with SCaLE we really need
to make that decision soon
(08:27:30 PM) lcafiero: True.
(08:27:41 PM) inode0: I'll schedule this for next week again on the
agenda, let's see what Max is doing and how that affects our
(08:27:47 PM) lcafiero: +1
(08:27:58 PM) DemonJester: +1
(08:28:14 PM) inode0: next agenda item ...
(08:28:27 PM) inode0: Media Update (hopefully)
(08:28:51 PM) inode0: not sensing herlo's presence I think we lose
(08:29:10 PM) DemonJester: moving on?
(08:29:13 PM) inode0: he did mention elsewhere that artwork was approved
(08:29:18 PM) inode0: that is all I think I know
(08:29:41 PM) lcafiero: I remember that he did, but that's all I know.
(08:29:41 PM) inode0: the only task list item was also herlo
(08:29:59 PM) inode0: so we'll let that slide
(08:30:29 PM) inode0: that was about distribution of media and a
possible fedex/ups account for our use
(08:30:48 PM) inode0: Open floor?
(08:31:01 PM) inode0: Anything else you'd like to talk about?
(08:31:07 PM) DemonJester: !
(08:31:09 PM) lcafiero: On the issue of media, I've been rolling my own.
(08:31:17 PM) ***lcafiero yields to DemonJester
(08:31:46 PM) DemonJester: The presentations I held on Monday went
very well, I have quite a few peeps interested in joining Fedora.
(08:32:14 PM) inode0: Where did you speak and about what?
(08:32:24 PM) DemonJester: 5 have emailed me since yesterday
requesting more info.
(08:32:56 PM) inode0: them taking the initiative to follow-up is very
(08:33:00 PM) DemonJester: at ITT Technical Institute in PA, Spoke
about how they can use Open Source and Fedora to build work portfolios
and experience while going to school
(08:33:26 PM) DemonJester: by contributing in some fashion or another
(08:34:13 PM) DemonJester: thats all I have, I just need to follow up
with each of them now :)
(08:34:37 PM) lcafiero: Great DemonJester
(08:35:07 PM) inode0: alright, shall we set the world record?
(08:35:18 PM) DemonJester: countdown on!
(08:35:20 PM) inode0: 5
(08:35:23 PM) inode0: 4
(08:35:24 PM) herlo: sorry, I forgot
(08:35:29 PM) DemonJester: lol
(08:35:30 PM) herlo: Im here
(08:35:32 PM) lcafiero: wait, I . . .
(08:35:34 PM) lcafiero: never mind
(08:35:47 PM) inode0: ok, we return to herlo's media update now :)
(08:35:47 PM) ***lcafiero lost a step against herlo
(08:36:01 PM) herlo: give 2 mins and i will b home
(08:36:20 PM) lcafiero: So much for the record
(08:36:32 PM) DemonJester: either of you running ati vid cards with f10?
(08:36:46 PM) ***lcafiero wonders if herlo is texting and driving . . . ?
(08:36:57 PM) lcafiero: Not me, DemonJester
(08:37:15 PM) DemonJester: inode0: ^^^^
(08:37:18 PM) herlo: nope
(08:37:35 PM) herlo: irc & driving
(08:37:44 PM) lcafiero: That's a dangerous combo
(08:37:45 PM) herlo: at lights
(08:37:50 PM) herlo: only
(08:37:59 PM) lcafiero: SuuuuUUUuuuuuure
(08:38:08 PM) DemonJester: lol
(08:38:17 PM) inode0: well, drive faster before ke4qqq shows up too
(08:38:57 PM) DemonJester: I am out at 10, still need to get some
stuff done for work tomorrow.
(08:39:24 PM) inode0: you can always check the log later, I'm really
going to try to not be a week late posting them
(08:41:01 PM) inode0: reminder to everyone to vote if you want to :)
(08:41:12 PM) inode0: and if you haven't already :)
(08:41:15 PM) lcafiero: Vote for me
(08:41:41 PM) lcafiero: Actually, as ke4qqq mentioned, all the
candidates are good for FAmSCo
(08:41:51 PM) ianweller: are we doin a meeting?
(08:42:03 PM) herlo: sorry
(08:42:05 PM) herlo: I'm here
(08:42:05 PM) herlo: now
(08:42:11 PM) lcafiero: We are now.
(08:42:11 PM) inode0: go herlo!
(08:42:13 PM) lcafiero: :-)
(08:42:16 PM) herlo: okay, so here's the update on the media
(08:42:33 PM) herlo: we got proofs back yesterday, they look great,
I'll upload them right now for everyone to see
(08:42:51 PM) herlo: Max approved them same day
(08:43:01 PM) herlo: media should be delivered within 10 days at most
(08:43:26 PM) inode0: F10 for the holidays
(08:43:39 PM) herlo: yahoo!
(08:43:53 PM) lcafiero: Will look good under the tree . . .
(08:43:57 PM) herlo: I also asked Max about the budget for media,
haven't heard back a reply
(08:44:08 PM) inode0: update on fedex/ups account matter?
(08:44:11 PM) herlo: and about a FedEx/UPS account, no reply either
(08:44:13 PM) herlo: :)
(08:44:31 PM) inode0: alrighty, thanks herlo
(08:44:47 PM) lcafiero: I've been making my own, and Cabrillo College
has been doing the same, but we'd welcome CDs
(08:44:51 PM) lcafiero: and DVDs
(08:44:53 PM) inode0: did you have anything else to discuss?
(08:45:31 PM) herlo: yes, I was going to show you all the media
covers, but they should look pretty familiar
(08:45:56 PM) ***herlo waits for his fp.o page to load
(08:46:04 PM) herlo: http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/files/f10-jacket.PDF
(08:46:11 PM) herlo: http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/files/f10-media.pdf
(08:46:49 PM) ***herlo is madly getting his stuff done, it's been a crazy night
(08:46:51 PM) herlo: sorry guys
(08:47:07 PM) DemonJester: they look good!
(08:47:11 PM) herlo: okay, inode0 I'm done now
(08:47:16 PM) herlo: unless anyone has questions
(08:47:25 PM) inode0: those look fabulous
(08:47:27 PM) herlo: lcafiero: I really wasn't driving and texting
(08:47:34 PM) herlo: :) I'm happy about them too.
(08:47:36 PM) lcafiero: herlo: I gathered
(08:47:54 PM) herlo: DemonJester: sorry about the lateness, but Dec 13
seems to be out of the question
(08:47:58 PM) lcafiero: media covers are great, herlo -- +10
(08:47:59 PM) inode0: ok, I'll move back the report on the new task to next week
(08:48:16 PM) herlo: inode0: hopefully, I'll have good news :)
(08:48:16 PM) DemonJester: herlo: nw, I will make due :)
(08:48:25 PM) herlo: I know, but I was hoping
(08:48:30 PM) herlo: still, the quality seems great so far
(08:48:44 PM) herlo: and the folks over at the media place are great
(08:49:29 PM) inode0: ok, let's head back to our home IRC channel for
(08:49:35 PM) inode0: thanks for coming everyone
(08:49:36 PM) herlo: k, I'm out then, have a good night
(08:49:38 PM) inode0: 5
(08:49:39 PM) inode0: 4
(08:49:40 PM) inode0: 3
(08:49:41 PM) inode0: 2
(08:49:42 PM) inode0: 1
(08:49:44 PM) inode0: EOF
- Max Spevack's class for ambassadors was attended by inode0 who found
it to be very worthwhile. The log of the class can be seen here
Please attend a future session if you can.
- lcafiero reports an F10 event at the Felton LUG, 15 live CDs went out
the door and everyone got an F10 install demonstration.
More discussion of where to hold the next FADNA, feeling of participants
was that we should choose between SCaLE soon if that is our choice. SELF
is still a serious contender and has a lot to offer. lcafiero will touch
base with Max Spevack to get some clarification about the future plans
for FADNAs before a decision is made.
* F10 Media Update
- herlo reports proofs for the artwork were approved for F10 media.
- Media should start showing up in around 10 days now.
* Tasks [https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/Tasks]
- Ambassadors FedEx/UPS account: update delayed until next week.
- Task added to cleanup wiki meeting minutes for the past couple
of months - report on that work next week as well.
* Open Floor
- DemonJester reported about presentations he gave last week at the
ITT Technical Institute in PA where he presented on how they can use
Open Source and Fedora to build work portfolios and experience while
going to school. Follow-ups are happening now with potential new
I would again like to thank all the participants, especially the new
ambassadors joining us for the first time tonight.
Manipur Fedora 10 Release and Install Fest 2008 held today at Nupilal
Complex, Imphal., The event report and pictures are available at
> Good evening everybody,
also a good evening Robert,
many time is gone since we meet each other in person and had a fine
conversation. But I'm glad that this will happen tomorrow and we'll have
the possibility to talk together (above not Fedora related items) ...
I personally would like to answer you and also the ML my thoughts about
your topic regarding the NPO (after a long working day; misunderstooden
mails between door and table in a training, personal issues and so on) ...
So I hope it's OK for you if I delete all other stuff you mentioned
because there are other people more responsible than me.
> Fedora EMEA e.V. also seems to be a mostly dead tree. Of course we have
founded the association as legal vehicle. But it would be nice to see
> my money, my membership fee, the 128 Euro per year are spent to. I now
could assume, that the money is just collected and nothing happens or
> guys of the board are buying and eating ice cream with, but I really
> that's not true.
To be honest, Robert; we're still active. We had conversation with several
suppliers supporting Fedora and get a taxreductable receipt on the one
hand; on the other hand we're working close to fairs getting more space,
value and effort to our "presentation at a fair"; staying in contact with
a Store who can be maybe an "official licenced Store for Europe" with
supporting us with swag, producing for us and also supporting us with
Please don't say or write that we're dead; that's not fair. But as a
member of the NPO you have ever the right and also the duty to ask, what
the board is doing and WHAT you can do for YOUR association; instead of
asking "What does the association for me" ;-)
Be active in your role as member; WE need you!
> Fedora EMEA e.V. really needs to communicate a bit more
> its members what they're doing and how the money is handled.
we'll do as it is written down in the statues; trust me! If YOU as a
member are not satisfied with the answer the Treasurer gives you, come to
me and we'll find a way to help you getting the information, you need!
> is lacking much transparency and about their activities.
I'm sorry, that is my personal fault! After Linuxtag in May I had a lot of
personal workload to move and rebuild a complete DataCenter for my
business and I forgot to inform the members, what we're doing in the back.
Hope you can accept my apologize.
> AFAIK, a mailing
> list for the members of Fedora EMEA e.V. was created, I think it never
> used yet.
Can be correct; I don't know exactly; BUT as you are involved in the
discussion we said, we want to be "upstream as upstram can" and want to
use officialy ways ...
> 128 Euro per year is IMHO too much for the current level of what seems
to happen with the money. And for that money I could support the Free
> Software Foundation Europe (FSFE) with multiple membership fees per
Sorry that I can't accept that point of criticism. The membership meeting
at the foundation voted for that amount and to be honest, either me nor
the Board can change this amount. This is a legal part and must be changed
by the yearly membership meeting. Hope you can understand that point of
> And sorry, just one cool bathrobe isn't a good reason for spending 128 Euro
> away per year. Without enough transparency and communication, it's like
throwing the money out of the window of my room.
I totally agree with you, saying such a sentence, because we as Board
decided to produce such a exclusive bathrope ONLY for members of Fedora
EMEA e.V. and you only get it once in your life; and it is not the only
value you'll earn.
Maybe you were part of the last FAD in Schloss Beuggen where I asked the
Ambassadors attending that FAD to give me a little money that we can pay a
train ticket for a Ambassador who was (or is still) student with no income
that he'll get reimbursed. With your membership fee and mine and other
members AND the support of Red Hat hopefully it is no longer necessary
that a small group (who attend) help in such a situation because of all
members will help whereever they can with their small support of EUR 120 /
Year as a full membership fee (also you remeber, that we have a step down
for students, military, families e.g.).
And please one other thing to everybody (to whom it may concern): If
something went wrong with the Fedora EMEA e.V. please use my E-Mail Adress
and if you don't trust me, take another member of the NPO who elected
myself as their President.
Stop try blaming our work here in the mailing list, this is not the right
and correct forum for the work the NPO did; also not the same forum for
the french NPO (which is more silent than this one).
Friendly yours and hope we're friends for a long time
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:32 AM, John W. Linville <linville(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> Wireless wasn't on the list -- hooray!!!!
> Sorry, just needed some humor...
I could add it. I ran into my first residential wireless
network...managed by an apple airport something or other..which I
could not connect to. I gave up and had a glorious 5 days in Florida
without ever touching email. So really I guess I should be thankful
that wireless didn't work flawlessly for me that week.
A few quick things, to try to tie up today's discussion:
(1) Final accounting for 2008 will take place, and I assure you all that
the report will be available to everyone when it is. I briefly sketched
out some of the information earlier, which I hope was useful.
(2) If *anyone* who paid their 128 EUR membership fee regrets doing so
(either because it was too much money, or for any reason at all), tell
me privately and we will give you your money back. No questions asked,
and no hard feelings.
(3) Membership in Fedora EMEA e.V. and membership in the larger Fedora
Project really don't need to have anything to do with each other at all.
The goal of the non-profit is to *make life easier* when getting
resources (money, and the things money buys) to people in our community
across EMEA. Any side-effects of the group that are not helping with
that mission should be discussed, fixed, and/or eliminated.
Thanks for your time,
> On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 03:37:03PM +0100, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote:
>> Read again what I said. If _RedHat_ has to hide some informations (which
>> is totally understandable on a legal point of view for a private
>> then the whole Fedora community should be kept unaware _even the ones
>> working for RedHat_.
>> IMHO, that's the only way to preserve both:
>> - the secrecy needed by such an investigation
>> - the cohesion and transparency of the community
> Ah, I see. You're under the impression that I or someone else in the
> Fedora community also knows what's going on in Red Hat's internal
> investigation. I can assure you that I, for one, don't. And that's
> been done, I believe, so the internal investigation and response isn't
> Does this clarify the situation, then?
And if that's the case, I do think it would have made a tremendous
difference regarding the community reaction if it had been made totally
clear from the very beginning.
I don't know, maybe you could have said it in your announces.
Or maybe someone from RedHat who is _not_ part of the Fedora community
could have taken over the issue and communicated instead of you.
Anyway, now that you explained it, I feel totally dumb ^_^
Please, do clarify this outside of this list so that the FUD about the
openness and transparency of the Fedora Community can stop (and yes, even
if I've been part of the FUD, it's been hurting me).
Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)
French Fedora Ambassador
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin
> On 2008-12-09 10:51:10 AM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote:
>> About the legal constraints, I can totally understand that RedHat (the
>> private company) has to keep some informations. But in that case, RedHat
>> engineers should take over the issue and no one in Fedora should be
>> of it. Right now, we're in some kind of middle stage where only an elit
>> Fedora people can be in the secret, and others are being despised. This
>> doesn't make a healthy community.
> I'm sorry, where did you get the idea that any "elite group" of Fedora
> people are in to some secret?
Some know, some don't. That makes an elit group who is in the secret for me.
> What bothers me about this whole thing is that some Fedora community
> members are taking the heat for not giving enough information, even
> though they're not the ones making the decision of what they're allowed
> to say.
> Please don't bash them for somebody else's decision.
Did I bash someone ? Did I say there was some conspiration from this
"elit" group I spoke about ? Did I say that they were happy of this
Read again what I said. If _RedHat_ has to hide some informations (which
is totally understandable on a legal point of view for a private company),
then the whole Fedora community should be kept unaware _even the ones
working for RedHat_.
IMHO, that's the only way to preserve both:
- the secrecy needed by such an investigation
- the cohesion and transparency of the community
Once again, evasive informations are totally understandable when they come
from a private company facing such an issue, but they hurt when they come
from a suposedly open and transparent community you felt you were playing
an integral part.
Sorry for the rant, but if we should not rant and simply accept what's
coming from the top, then I fear we are even less open and transparent
that what the intrusion showed us.
Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)
French Fedora Ambassador
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin