On Mon, 2011-11-28 at 08:26 +0100, Jukka Palander wrote:
On Sun, 2011-11-27 at 13:30 +0000, Onyeibo Oku wrote:
> Is this really a topic for Ambassadors list? This should be pursued at the source
i.e. Gnome-designers and fedora desktop group. Personally, I find your position too
relative (as in, pertaining to personal preferences rather than absolute (based on result
of tested scenarios) ... And those scenarios being hypothetical and subjected to testing
during development stage). Which experts do you refer to?
This is indeed a place to discuss about it!
Ambassadors list (in my opinion) is especially a forum to discuss about
_anything_ what we hear and see in the Fedora users field.
This is _not_ a forum to discuss about how something should be improved
(development boards are in place), but we have to remember that we
ambassadors are the first people in touch with the users. Therefore our
eyes and ears are very valuable asset for development (and I really hope
some of the developers reads this list).
I don't think they should (unless they are also ambassadors of course).
Your ears only have value if you translate the message (in dev speak)
and forward it to Bugzilla, or similar developers fora.
This is the reason that I think we should say it out loud what
think about Fedora and what they have decided to do no matter if it is
one or two users or a larger scale survey.
Imagine: 541 ambassadors right now. If each one of us sends a message
every time we hear something, anything, about Fedora, this list will be
overwhelmed by noise, and will become useless.
You are in contact with users, but your role is to be an interface. It
is not to say "some guy told me that they don't like $desktop". That's
useless information, no one can act on it to fix a problem and improve
Instead, when someone says they hate $desktop, try to get some
specifics. Ask them why. Try to see if there's not simply something they
didn't understand which would make their hatred go away, or try to
obtain some specific issues. And if you get something that someone can
act on, invite them to report a bug (or do it yourself if they don't
want and you are confident to follow up with the developers on an issue
you haven't encountered yourself).
> I find Gnome3 easier to use and I have been using Gnome2 from
F11. I don't think its perfect but I appreciate the direction and would rather suggest
ways of improving what is ... As long as its in the direction of the future. Change is
around us. We either adapt or die ... If the Linux community is concerned about decline in
usage in favour of other Linux solutions then I'm left in wonder - because that is not
really a loss. And what does it profit if the circle is comprised of a clique of old GUI
purists and new people are brewing outside the fence?
Going towards new is good, but we should go in there by listening our
users what they want. Being arrogant is not the way.
I don't think Onyeibo was being arrogant.
And I also don't think we should always listen to what our users want.
To throw in once more that overused Henry Ford quote:
If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have said "a
Software is built following a vision of what people need, even if that
isn't always exactly what they think they need.
Sometimes it is completely opposite of what they really need. But that's
okay. It's Free Software, no one is forcing anyone to use anything, and
there are lots of viable alternatives to suit everyone.
Saying the above is not being arrogant, it's being pragmatic. There are
only so many hours in one's day, and no matter what you do, you will
never please everybody.
> Finally, this kind of thread has the potential to go sour and
noisy. This is simply not the forum for it.
Being sour and noisy at least leads us into the discussion (which
usually leads into new ideas). Being silent won't lead us into anything
else than backwards.
If you honestly think that "sour and noisy" can bring in "new ideas"
leading towards improving the status quo, then you haven't spent enough
time on devel(a)fp.o :)