1:54 p.m.
Well, the question is in the subject.
Is the ambassadors project in utter chaos, and losing focus?
First the ambassadors is the entire marketing initiative
Then, we announce ambassadors is strictly for spreading events, and the
marketing list is for all else.
And now, we are bringing non-ambassador stuff back to the ambassadors
meetings?
And the meetings...
We seem to be spending as much time arbitrarily disciplining ambassadors
for `speaking out of turn`, as we are getting the work done.
I hate to say this, but I don't know if the current team of lxmaier +
tchung as chair of the meeting is working out :(, no offense to either
lx or thomas.
May I please volunteer EvilBob to perhaps lead the next meeting, if he
is available?
Perhaps it is time for each ambassador to rethink why (s)he is part of
the project, and what they hope to contribute.
Gja
1:55 p.m.
On Friday 21 April 2006 19:54, Tejas Dinkar wrote:
Well, the question is in the subject.
Is the ambassadors project in utter chaos, and losing focus?
First the ambassadors is the entire marketing initiative
Then, we announce ambassadors is strictly for spreading events, and the
marketing list is for all else.
And now, we are bringing non-ambassador stuff back to the ambassadors
meetings?
Ambassadors is (now) for events and lugs, and such. What's the harm in talking
about other material during the meetings?
And the meetings...
We seem to be spending as much time arbitrarily disciplining ambassadors
for `speaking out of turn`, as we are getting the work done.
The less people speak out of turn, the less chaotic it gets. People will
eventually realise that speaking out of turn is pointless; but we also need
to educate those not in the know. This is something that needs to be made
clearer on the wiki, and also something that maybe mentors can assist with.
I hate to say this, but I don't know if the current team of
lxmaier +
tchung as chair of the meeting is working out :(, no offense to either
lx or thomas.
I think that Alex and Thomas are doing fine jobs.
May I please volunteer EvilBob to perhaps lead the next meeting, if
he
is available?
I think it is perhaps not the best plan to have the person voted in to chair
to not chair.
Clair
2:10 p.m.
On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 19:55 +0100, Clair wrote:
Ambassadors is (now) for events and lugs, and such. What's the
harm in talking
about other material during the meetings?
By that logic, having non-ambassador stuff on the ambassadors list also
makes sense.
> We seem to be spending as much time arbitrarily disciplining
ambassadors
> for `speaking out of turn`, as we are getting the work done.
The less people speak out of turn, the less chaotic it gets.
By that logic, the last meeting should have been very chaotic, as at
least 10 people were caught for speaking out of turn
People will eventually realise that speaking out of turn is
pointless;
By that time, more ambassadors will have joined
but we also need
to educate those not in the know. This is something that needs to be made
clearer on the wiki, and also something that maybe mentors can assist with.
And I must say that is should be out highest priority
We must get everyone working on it, right away</sarcasm>
> I hate to say this, but I don't know if the current team of
lxmaier +
> tchung as chair of the meeting is working out :(, no offense to either
> lx or thomas.
I think that Alex and Thomas are doing fine jobs.
> May I please volunteer EvilBob to perhaps lead the next meeting, if he
> is available?
I think it is perhaps not the best plan to have the person voted in to chair
to not chair.
Who said anything about voting?
And why not, in any case?
Gja
2:40 p.m.
Okay folks, easy here.
On 4/21/06, Tejas Dinkar <tejasdinkar(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 19:55 +0100, Clair wrote:
> Ambassadors is (now) for events and lugs, and such. What's the harm in talking
> about other material during the meetings?
This is what Clair defines the project to be. This is NOT what the
Fedora Ambassadors Steering Committee defined the project to be.
The official mission statement for the Ambassadors group is: "Fedora
Ambassadors are people like you and me, who go to places where other
Linux users and potential converts gather and tell them about
Fedora—the project and the distribution."
Our aims are:
* Represent Fedora Project to the wider public
* Help spread the word about Fedora, Linux, and Open Source
* Be a point of contact for local community members and
channel the feedback to Fedora Project
* Help recruit project contributors
* Think of creative ways for promoting Fedora in your region
Any activity that does not contradict the mission statement and the
declared aims can be part of the Ambassadors project.
Nobody on the Steering Committee is policing what
initiatives/activities should or should not be part of the Ambassadors
project, as long as they are not contrary to our Aims and our Mission.
This is not chaos. This is Freedom.
Ambassadors are free to spread the word about Fedora in any way they
want, as long as it's legal, of course, and does not harm the image of
Fedora. Limiting ourselves to only certain type of activity, but not
others, will only harm us in the long run.
I hope this answers your questions.
a
3:02 p.m.
On Friday 21 April 2006 20:40, Alex Maier wrote:
Any activity that does not contradict the mission statement and the
declared aims can be part of the Ambassadors project.
Nobody on the Steering Committee is policing what
initiatives/activities should or should not be part of the Ambassadors
project, as long as they are not contrary to our Aims and our Mission.
So, Ambassadors is now Marketing?
Clair
3:13 p.m.
On 4/21/06, Clair <fedora(a)freehold.no-ip.info> wrote:
On Friday 21 April 2006 20:40, Alex Maier wrote:
> Any activity that does not contradict the mission statement and the
> declared aims can be part of the Ambassadors project.
>
> Nobody on the Steering Committee is policing what
> initiatives/activities should or should not be part of the Ambassadors
> project, as long as they are not contrary to our Aims and our Mission.
So, Ambassadors is now Marketing?
Ambassadors project is what the Ambassadors make it--as long as it
does not contradict with the Aims and the Mission.
a
3:14 p.m.
On Friday 21 April 2006 21:13, Alex Maier wrote:
On 4/21/06, Clair <fedora(a)freehold.no-ip.info> wrote:
> On Friday 21 April 2006 20:40, Alex Maier wrote:
> > Any activity that does not contradict the mission statement and the
> > declared aims can be part of the Ambassadors project.
> >
> > Nobody on the Steering Committee is policing what
> > initiatives/activities should or should not be part of the Ambassadors
> > project, as long as they are not contrary to our Aims and our Mission.
>
> So, Ambassadors is now Marketing?
Ambassadors project is what the Ambassadors make it--as long as it
does not contradict with the Aims and the Mission.
a
Ok.. what's the difference between Ambassadors and Marketing?
Clair
3:20 p.m.
On 4/21/06, Clair Shaw <clair(a)freehold.no-ip.info> wrote:
> Ambassadors project is what the Ambassadors make it--as long as
it
> does not contradict with the Aims and the Mission.
> a
Ok.. what's the difference between Ambassadors and Marketing?
fedora-marketing-list is a discussion list, people talk there, but do
not get stuff done, according to my experience.
fedora-ambassadors-list however is a project, with a steering
committee and a budget, that gets things done by supporting individual
Ambassadors' initiatives.
a
3:32 p.m.
On Friday 21 April 2006 21:20, Alex Maier wrote:
On 4/21/06, Clair Shaw <clair(a)freehold.no-ip.info> wrote:
> > Ambassadors project is what the Ambassadors make it--as long as it
> > does not contradict with the Aims and the Mission.
> > a
>
> Ok.. what's the difference between Ambassadors and Marketing?
fedora-marketing-list is a discussion list, people talk there, but do
not get stuff done, according to my experience.
fedora-ambassadors-list however is a project, with a steering
committee and a budget, that gets things done by supporting individual
Ambassadors' initiatives.
If nothing gets done by the Marketing project then something is seriously
wrong.
Quote from the wiki:
"I take care of Fedora Marketing.
My highest priority at the moment is leading the Fedora Ambassadors program."
Clair
3:43 p.m.
On Friday 21 April 2006 15:20, "Alex Maier" <lxmaier(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 4/21/06, Clair Shaw <clair(a)freehold.no-ip.info> wrote:
> > Ambassadors project is what the Ambassadors make it--as long as it
> > does not contradict with the Aims and the Mission.
> > a
>
> Ok.. what's the difference between Ambassadors and Marketing?
fedora-marketing-list is a discussion list, people talk there, but do
not get stuff done, according to my experience.
fedora-ambassadors-list however is a project, with a steering
committee and a budget, that gets things done by supporting individual
Ambassadors' initiatives.
Fedora Ambassadors was given 100% focus after it was created. That is the
reason that Marketing has become what it now is. It *used* to get things
done. It *used* to be lively, complete with meetings (which were promptly
dissolved and replaced with Ambassadors meetings) and several major
milestones (including formation of the Ambassadors program) achieved. The
fact that management neglected it horribly does not change the purposes of
each of Ambassadors and Marketing. The close timing between when the
Community Marketing Contacts idea arose and when the management of Marketing
was handed off was unfortunate.
It is highly inappropriate for the Ambassadors program to extend its reach
into projects that are not within its scope. I have no objection to
Ambassadors having its own sub-projects, nor with status updates being
provided by members of other projects, but the Ambassadors program must know
where to draw the line. Fracturing can occur if ambassadors fail to
acknowledge what items belong to what projects.
A more fair statement of what is within the Ambassadors scope would be "all
items which meet the stated mission and goals of the Fedora Ambassadors
program and do not conflict with any other existing Fedora project."
Attempts to extend beyond that scope will only cause problems for the
Ambassadors program and for the Fedora Project.
As a side note, fedora-france.org stands quite well on its own as a community
resource, just like projetofedora.org and others. They don't need to be
pulled into the Ambassadors umbrella, but every bit of exposure will help
them.
--
Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
nman64(a)n-man.com
http://www.n-man.com/
Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance!
http://rate.affero.net/nman64/
--
3:46 p.m.
You know, I am getting pretty sick of reading this crap. Time and time
again, it seems to be coming up.
I was hoping the ambassadors project to be more of a support channel.
Sharing talks, presentations etc, but instead, we get disagreements on
the meaning of "ambassador"
Well, I have not attended a "big event" nor intend to. Why? New Zealand
does not have them (or not often), so I have no interest in the "swags"
and "banners"
I barely attend my local LUG, its a solid debian LUG and I have no
intention to wage ware on other distros.
I do, however, answer any and or all emails that are about RHEL/FC on mt
local LUG mailing lists and our country wide LUG mailing list. I also
help supply people with media (free media project).
Now, I will be removing myself from this list, simply because I am sick
of reading about crap that is not on topic, doesn't benefit the
ambassadors and only goes to confirm that yes, we are in a state of
chaos. I have better things to do within Fedora (read extras, mentors),
than sit here reading this rubbish.
I would appreciate my ambassador status on the wiki to remain, as New
Zealand only has myself to represent it, but if someone feels different,
they can contact me off list and explain why it needs to be removed.
So, I bid you good luck, I hope you figure out what ever it is you want
to figure out. I will look back to the list later and see of people of
gotten over what ever it is that is bugging them.
Michael
4:08 p.m.
It seems a bit of thing that if we're deviating more in the directions
rather than that of the Ambassadors project. Michael has said it right, and
any one could get sick of these (as he calls crap) if it continues even
more. What we need to gather up, and with a enlighten enthusiasm prepare and
work to fulfill the goal of the project. It does not matter what
sub-projects the Ambassadors choose in order to achieve the goal, they have
the freedom (as Alex say) as long as they are target to achieve that very
common goal.
Hope this concludes all that from Michael, Tejas, Alex, Clair, &
Patrick.
Regards
Abhishek Singh
On 4/22/06, Michael J Knox <michael(a)knox.net.nz> wrote:
You know, I am getting pretty sick of reading this crap. Time and time
again, it seems to be coming up.
I was hoping the ambassadors project to be more of a support channel.
Sharing talks, presentations etc, but instead, we get disagreements on
the meaning of "ambassador"
Well, I have not attended a "big event" nor intend to. Why? New Zealand
does not have them (or not often), so I have no interest in the "swags"
and "banners"
I barely attend my local LUG, its a solid debian LUG and I have no
intention to wage ware on other distros.
I do, however, answer any and or all emails that are about RHEL/FC on mt
local LUG mailing lists and our country wide LUG mailing list. I also
help supply people with media (free media project).
Now, I will be removing myself from this list, simply because I am sick
of reading about crap that is not on topic, doesn't benefit the
ambassadors and only goes to confirm that yes, we are in a state of
chaos. I have better things to do within Fedora (read extras, mentors),
than sit here reading this rubbish.
I would appreciate my ambassador status on the wiki to remain, as New
Zealand only has myself to represent it, but if someone feels different,
they can contact me off list and explain why it needs to be removed.
So, I bid you good luck, I hope you figure out what ever it is you want
to figure out. I will look back to the list later and see of people of
gotten over what ever it is that is bugging them.
Michael
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
4:09 p.m.
I am a doer, and I do not see a point in arguing about this whole
issue, instead of knowcking out some useful document for a newbie who
has questions about Fedora. Instead, discussions like this keep
surfacing, taking everyone's time, without any constructive output.
I am moving to close this discussion--nobody from the Marketing group
has complained yet that our activities have encroached on their
project. The moment they do, I will be sure to sort this out.
For the time being, let us concentrate on getting the message out to the masses.
Over and out.
a
On 4/21/06, Patrick W. Barnes <nman64(a)n-man.com> wrote:
On Friday 21 April 2006 15:20, "Alex Maier"
<lxmaier(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/21/06, Clair Shaw <clair(a)freehold.no-ip.info> wrote:
> > > Ambassadors project is what the Ambassadors make it--as long as it
> > > does not contradict with the Aims and the Mission.
> > > a
> >
> > Ok.. what's the difference between Ambassadors and Marketing?
>
> fedora-marketing-list is a discussion list, people talk there, but do
> not get stuff done, according to my experience.
>
> fedora-ambassadors-list however is a project, with a steering
> committee and a budget, that gets things done by supporting individual
> Ambassadors' initiatives.
>
Fedora Ambassadors was given 100% focus after it was created. That is the
reason that Marketing has become what it now is. It *used* to get things
done. It *used* to be lively, complete with meetings (which were promptly
dissolved and replaced with Ambassadors meetings) and several major
milestones (including formation of the Ambassadors program) achieved. The
fact that management neglected it horribly does not change the purposes of
each of Ambassadors and Marketing. The close timing between when the
Community Marketing Contacts idea arose and when the management of Marketing
was handed off was unfortunate.
It is highly inappropriate for the Ambassadors program to extend its reach
into projects that are not within its scope. I have no objection to
Ambassadors having its own sub-projects, nor with status updates being
provided by members of other projects, but the Ambassadors program must know
where to draw the line. Fracturing can occur if ambassadors fail to
acknowledge what items belong to what projects.
A more fair statement of what is within the Ambassadors scope would be "all
items which meet the stated mission and goals of the Fedora Ambassadors
program and do not conflict with any other existing Fedora project."
Attempts to extend beyond that scope will only cause problems for the
Ambassadors program and for the Fedora Project.
As a side note, fedora-france.org stands quite well on its own as a community
resource, just like projetofedora.org and others. They don't need to be
pulled into the Ambassadors umbrella, but every bit of exposure will help
them.
--
Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
nman64(a)n-man.com
http://www.n-man.com/
Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance!
http://rate.affero.net/nman64/
--
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
--
Check out the new content on Fedora Project page! http://fedoraproject.org
4:10 p.m.
On Friday 21 April 2006 22:09, Alex Maier wrote:
I am a doer, and I do not see a point in arguing about this whole
issue, instead of knowcking out some useful document for a newbie who
has questions about Fedora. Instead, discussions like this keep
surfacing, taking everyone's time, without any constructive output.
Isn't that more suited to the Documentation project?
I am moving to close this discussion--nobody from the Marketing
group
has complained yet that our activities have encroached on their
project. The moment they do, I will be sure to sort this out.
You're the one in charge, that's why ;)
Clair
4:28 p.m.
+1 Alex
This is a waste of everyones time, I have spent the last hour going over these
treads. And for what? Nothing! None of us have time to nitpick over minor
issues. Pick a project, lend a hand if it is not what you think it should be
research the issues on how you can help and offer a solution. And, before you
blow things out of proportion, try to look at the bigger picture. The fact that
I am writing this and coding really pisses me off. I get paid when I work, not
when I waste time on useless threads!
--
Cheers,
Robert C. Whetsel - CEO & Founder
Fedora Global Ambassador
SuSE Developer
RavenSong Open Technologies, Inc.
DBA: The Raven Group (1992)
Open Source Architects Specializing in
Enterprise Linux Business Solutions
Frederick Innovative Technology Center
401 Rosemont Avenue
Frederick, MD 21701
240-215-3944
www.ravensong.com
Quoting Alex Maier <lxmaier(a)gmail.com>:
I am a doer, and I do not see a point in arguing about this whole
issue, instead of knowcking out some useful document for a newbie who
has questions about Fedora. Instead, discussions like this keep
surfacing, taking everyone's time, without any constructive output.
I am moving to close this discussion--nobody from the Marketing group
has complained yet that our activities have encroached on their
project. The moment they do, I will be sure to sort this out.
For the time being, let us concentrate on getting the message out to the
masses.
Over and out.
a
On 4/21/06, Patrick W. Barnes <nman64(a)n-man.com> wrote:
> On Friday 21 April 2006 15:20, "Alex Maier" <lxmaier(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> > On 4/21/06, Clair Shaw <clair(a)freehold.no-ip.info> wrote:
> > > > Ambassadors project is what the Ambassadors make it--as long as it
> > > > does not contradict with the Aims and the Mission.
> > > > a
> > >
> > > Ok.. what's the difference between Ambassadors and Marketing?
> >
> > fedora-marketing-list is a discussion list, people talk there, but do
> > not get stuff done, according to my experience.
> >
> > fedora-ambassadors-list however is a project, with a steering
> > committee and a budget, that gets things done by supporting individual
> > Ambassadors' initiatives.
> >
>
> Fedora Ambassadors was given 100% focus after it was created. That is the
> reason that Marketing has become what it now is. It *used* to get things
> done. It *used* to be lively, complete with meetings (which were promptly
> dissolved and replaced with Ambassadors meetings) and several major
> milestones (including formation of the Ambassadors program) achieved. The
> fact that management neglected it horribly does not change the purposes of
> each of Ambassadors and Marketing. The close timing between when the
> Community Marketing Contacts idea arose and when the management of
Marketing
> was handed off was unfortunate.
>
> It is highly inappropriate for the Ambassadors program to extend its reach
> into projects that are not within its scope. I have no objection to
> Ambassadors having its own sub-projects, nor with status updates being
> provided by members of other projects, but the Ambassadors program must
know
> where to draw the line. Fracturing can occur if ambassadors fail to
> acknowledge what items belong to what projects.
>
> A more fair statement of what is within the Ambassadors scope would be
"all
> items which meet the stated mission and goals of the Fedora Ambassadors
> program and do not conflict with any other existing Fedora project."
> Attempts to extend beyond that scope will only cause problems for the
> Ambassadors program and for the Fedora Project.
>
> As a side note, fedora-france.org stands quite well on its own as a
community
> resource, just like projetofedora.org and others. They don't need to be
> pulled into the Ambassadors umbrella, but every bit of exposure will help
> them.
>
> --
> Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
> nman64(a)n-man.com
>
> http://www.n-man.com/
>
> Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance!
> http://rate.affero.net/nman64/
> --
>
>
>
> --
> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>
>
>
>
--
Check out the new content on Fedora Project page! http://fedoraproject.org
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
4:36 p.m.
Le vendredi 21 avril 2006 à 16:28 -0500, Robert Whetsel a écrit :
+1 Alex
This is a waste of everyones time, I have spent the last hour going over these
treads. And for what? Nothing! None of us have time to nitpick over minor
issues. Pick a project, lend a hand if it is not what you think it should be
research the issues on how you can help and offer a solution. And, before you
blow things out of proportion, try to look at the bigger picture. The fact that
I am writing this and coding really pisses me off. I get paid when I work, not
when I waste time on useless threads!
--
Cheers,
Robert C. Whetsel - CEO & Founder
Fedora Global Ambassador
SuSE Developer
RavenSong Open Technologies, Inc.
DBA: The Raven Group (1992)
Open Source Architects Specializing in
Enterprise Linux Business Solutions
Frederick Innovative Technology Center
401 Rosemont Avenue
Frederick, MD 21701
240-215-3944
www.ravensong.com
I agree as well, I personaly don't give a damn about that fuss. We have
better buzz to make rather than that.
I want to go forward, to move on. Keep losing your time like if you
wish, all I want is to be helped promoting the distro, Linux and free
software. That's all.
--
Thomas Canniot
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot
6:39 p.m.
I also agree that these sorts of threads are a waste of time, but there is an
important point to be made. We cannot ignore the boundaries for the
different projects, or we'll end up wasting a whole lot more time in the long
run. We need to be careful about how we combine or divide our efforts. I
support the idea of bringing this thread to an end, but I will not ignore
this issue going forward. All I ask is that the appropriate amount of
attention be payed to the scope of each project. Naturally, there will be
some evolution taking place in this regard, and I understand that, but we
can't disregard boundaries at the cost of project quality. Nobody gets to
brush this under the rug.
--
Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
nman64(a)n-man.com
http://www.n-man.com/
Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance!
http://rate.affero.net/nman64/
--
9:50 p.m.
The following definition is good enough for me.
It is interesting, that here we are defining an ambassador on a
moral/ethical definition rather than a hard written one.
I Like it :)
I don't know how to close a thread, but I got my answers.
Tejas
On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 15:40 -0400, Alex Maier wrote:
The official mission statement for the Ambassadors group is:
"Fedora
Ambassadors are people like you and me, who go to places where other
Linux users and potential converts gather and tell them about
Fedora—the project and the distribution."
Our aims are:
* Represent Fedora Project to the wider public
* Help spread the word about Fedora, Linux, and Open Source
* Be a point of contact for local community members and
channel the feedback to Fedora Project
* Help recruit project contributors
* Think of creative ways for promoting Fedora in your region
Any activity that does not contradict the mission statement and the
declared aims can be part of the Ambassadors project.
Nobody on the Steering Committee is policing what
initiatives/activities should or should not be part of the Ambassadors
project, as long as they are not contrary to our Aims and our Mission.
This is not chaos. This is Freedom.
Ambassadors are free to spread the word about Fedora in any way they
want, as long as it's legal, of course, and does not harm the image of
Fedora. Limiting ourselves to only certain type of activity, but not
others, will only harm us in the long run.
6572
days inactive
6573
days old
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
17 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Aks -
Alex -
Clair -
Clair Shaw -
Michael J. Knox -
Patrick W. Barnes -
Robert Whetsel -
Tejas Dinkar -
Thomas Canniot