1:38 p.m.
I have made a choice to resign from the Fedora Ambassadors project for a
couple reasons. First I do not feel that all ambassadors will be equally
represented by FAMSCo and its choice of leadership. Second now is the
time to begin rebuilding the Fedora Marketing Project in to what
Ambassadors could have been. I wish all the ambassadors that are not in
Europe or the EMEA area the best of luck you are going to need it in the
coming year.
For those ambassadors that are in the EMEA "think globally and act
locally" the choices you are making now will impact everyone in the future.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
Former Fedora Ambassador, Former FAMSCo
2:16 p.m.
Am Dienstag, 15. Januar 2008 20:38:22 schrieb Robert 'Bob' Jensen:
I have made a choice to resign from the Fedora Ambassadors project
for a
couple reasons. First I do not feel that all ambassadors will be equally
represented by FAMSCo and its choice of leadership. Second now is the
time to begin rebuilding the Fedora Marketing Project in to what
Ambassadors could have been. I wish all the ambassadors that are not in
Europe or the EMEA area the best of luck you are going to need it in the
coming year.
Yeah, blame all Ambassadors, blame Ambassadors work in Europe, go fishing in
other regions, split our power.
--
Jörg Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
2:31 p.m.
Bob,
my best wishes to you! BUt I don't not really understand your mail. It
looks to me that you are NOT satisfied with the last election of FAMSCo
and also not with the leading of FAMSCo.
I interpret your mail as follows:
You think, the FAMSCo is now fully in European hand and nobody else can
do something against that.
My apologize about that issue; EVERYBODY, every Ambassador in this world
has got MORE than 4 (I'm not sure but I think it were SIX) damned weeks
to selfnominate himself and the courage to tell every of this wonderful
over 200 Ambassador why they should vote him!
Approx. 60 have voted, what a pity! In that case I totally agree with
you. But if you go now and send a mail and "warn" about the EMEA
Ambassadors, Bob, thats not really fair.
In the past, we asked more and more for support from the US, have a look
where all the FUDCons are planed and held ...
e.g. Red Hat in Raleigh ....
Oh, I never saw that city Raleigh in europe :-( If we need something we
have to eat humble pie to get something. You "American Ambassadors" are
sitting at the base you get all you need and imho you think: f****
Europe
And thats really not fair!
We try to found a legal entity to support and promote Fedora wherever we
can IN OUR AREA and what shall I say? Do you pay all my time and my
bills when I organise Linuxtag; attend at FOSDEM or elsewhere? Does Red
Hat or Fedora does?
NO mostly NOT! Because we mostly pay our trips, our participation out of
our pocket, that we have to opportunity to pay for FEDORA Posters or
FEDORA Stickers or whatever.
Aaaarghs ...
I don't want to be unfair and I don't want to divert the Fedora world in
diverent camps like you try it with your mail.
WE in Europe want to have our area more supported and helped by Red Hat
and nevertheless if you can't see that point, please stop writing such
mails.
Gerold
EMEA Ambassador with heart and soul
Am Dienstag, den 15.01.2008, 13:38 -0600 schrieb Robert 'Bob' Jensen:
I have made a choice to resign from the Fedora Ambassadors project
for a
couple reasons. First I do not feel that all ambassadors will be equally
represented by FAMSCo and its choice of leadership. Second now is the
time to begin rebuilding the Fedora Marketing Project in to what
Ambassadors could have been. I wish all the ambassadors that are not in
Europe or the EMEA area the best of luck you are going to need it in the
coming year.
For those ambassadors that are in the EMEA "think globally and act
locally" the choices you are making now will impact everyone in the future.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
Former Fedora Ambassador, Former FAMSCo
--
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--
Gerold Kassube <gerold(a)lugd.org>
5:28 p.m.
On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 21:31 +0100, Gerold Kassube wrote:
... EVERYBODY, every Ambassador in this world
has got MORE than 4 (I'm not sure but I think it were SIX) damned weeks
to selfnominate himself and the courage to tell every of this wonderful
over 200 Ambassador why they should vote him!
This has been pointed out to me in the past -- every culture handles the
idea of self promotion differently. For some cultures, stepping forward
from the crowd to promote yourself as a leader is very hard. For other
cultures, it is common to promote yourself as a leader.
The kind of voting/democracy that we use in Fedora is derived from a
Western history and culture. We need to keep that in mind. What we
require of people in order to get into a position of leadership may not
be appropriate in their culture.
No easy solutions, unfortunately ...
- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41
6:15 p.m.
2008/1/16 Karsten 'quaid' Wade <kwade(a)redhat.com>:
This has been pointed out to me in the past -- every culture handles
the
idea of self promotion differently. For some cultures, stepping forward
from the crowd to promote yourself as a leader is very hard. For other
cultures, it is common to promote yourself as a leader.
The kind of voting/democracy that we use in Fedora is derived from a
Western history and culture. We need to keep that in mind. What we
require of people in order to get into a position of leadership may not
be appropriate in their culture.
No easy solutions, unfortunately ...
As a newish member of the ambassador group I resisted comment on this
when the elections were held. But now that it is on the table I will
say that the western country I come from seriously frowned on this for
elections when the government was formed. The idea that people of high
character would engage in such self-promotion was not the prevailing
wisdom of the day. Things evolved into that mechanism over time but
I'm not at all sure it is an example of evolution at its best.
I'm one westerner who would be very happy if there at least existed a
mechanism by which the community could nominate worthy contributors
who might be too uncomfortable about engaging in self-promotion. It
seems to me that the worst thing that could happen is that a person
nominated by others could graciously decline and walk away having been
flattered by a community that just expressed its appreciation of their
efforts and its confidence in them.
John
2:45 p.m.
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
I have made a choice to resign from the Fedora Ambassadors project
for a
couple reasons. First I do not feel that all ambassadors will be equally
represented by FAMSCo and its choice of leadership. Second now is the time
to begin rebuilding the Fedora Marketing Project in to what Ambassadors
could have been. I wish all the ambassadors that are not in Europe or the
EMEA area the best of luck you are going to need it in the coming year.
For those ambassadors that are in the EMEA "think globally and act locally"
the choices you are making now will impact everyone in the future.
Thanks for your non-wishes. As you can think, I'm just less worry now about
your resign. It just looks to me as you're very jealous, because Gerold was
and is doing a really a huge work for Fedora EMEA with a huge effort. AFAIK
you didn't do as FAMSCO member that much as some of the European non-FAMSCO
members did; if you are now only trying to make the good old Europe maggoty
with your mail, just go and never come back...sorry.
But the well message is: Folks, there's now another free seat for a further
Fedora EMEA ambassador! :)
Greetings,
Robert
1:17 a.m.
On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 21:45 +0100, Robert Scheck wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
> I have made a choice to resign from the Fedora Ambassadors project for a
> couple reasons.
<snip>
if you are now only trying to make the good old Europe maggoty
with your mail, just go and never come back...sorry.
But the well message is: Folks, there's now another free seat for a further
Fedora EMEA ambassador! :)
I really don't believe that this is an appropriate way to deal with this
problem. When you reply rudely to Bob's original email, it reflects
poorly on you and the EMEA ambassadors (in which I'm included).
While I don't agree with his assessment, I can understand where Bob is
coming from. It seems that he's afraid that FAmSCo will be biased
towards EMEA and neglect the other areas. I don't know enough of the
history of FAmSCo to know whether or not it was the opposite way when
there were four US members on FAmSCo.
Fedora Ambassadors should be (and it seems, largely are) for Fedora
first and their region second. And the new FAmSCo *must* make sure that
their highest priority is Fedora Ambassadors, not their particular
region (no matter what has gone before).
If we succeed in this, the different regions will work together
effectively, Fedora Ambassadors will grow and people like Bob will come
back. If we fail, then Fedora Ambassadors will be divided into
bickering groups that fade away into irrelevance.
Bob, we will be sorry to see you go. I hope you will return when you
see that your fears for FAmSCo's future aren't realized.
Jonathan
8:22 a.m.
I wish all the ambassadors that are not in Europe or the EMEA area
the best of luck you are going to need it in the coming year.
Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
Current FAmSCo has been democratically elected, and any ambassador
could have self-nominated. You didn't even wait that the newly elected
FAmSCo starts its work to criticize them. This is quite rude and
unfair.
There are no factions in Fedora Ambassadors and I hope that'll be the
same in the future.
At least, give a chance to our new FAmSCo, Fedora Ambassadors next
challenge will be to better structure itself. This election is NOT
(and should not be) an opportunity for EMEA to get more attention but
to leverage our experience in order to spread Fedora everywhere in the
world. What have been done in EMEA, could be done in America Latina,
North-America, Asia etc ...
I confide in the new FAmSCo as I confided in the previous one. I also
hope that we'll count you again among our peers.
FedoraProject knows no borders, no limits.
H. G.
10:09 a.m.
Hi
Fedora Ambassadors should be (and it seems, largely are) for Fedora
first and their region second.
I am not agree. You are ambassador from a worldwide organization, but you
are focused
in your area. Dont spect than other countries, should resign their
indentity or needs. This
is "common first world acception". You are concentred the problem in EMEA
and USA, and
theres a lot of ambassadors out of this places.
And the new FAmSCo *must* make sure that
their highest priority is Fedora Ambassadors, not their particular
region (no matter what has gone before).
I dont know how is your condition in your region, as you dont know how is
our condition here.
So , the highest priority for Ambassador is "spread fedora", this is the
mission, the statement
and the purpose of Ambassador.
If we succeed in this, the different regions will work together
effectively, Fedora Ambassadors will grow and people like Bob will
come
back. If we fail, then Fedora Ambassadors will be divided into
bickering groups that fade away into irrelevance.
Fedora Ambassadors are divided right now. I understand that the developing
of the distro
must be focused in Red Hat based countries, it is common sense.But about
Ambassador
roles, the leaving up of Bob, represents the inner crisis, that Ithink the
new management of FAMSCO
and the important continuing role of Max, wants to resolve.
Bob, we will be sorry to see you go. I hope you will return when you
see that your fears for FAmSCo's future aren't realized.
Yes, the same...
Best regards
P.
Jonathan
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--
Pablo Barrera
11:10 a.m.
Hello,
On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 13:09 -0300, Pablo Barrera wrote:
Hi
Fedora Ambassadors should be (and it seems, largely are) for Fedora
first and their region second.
I am not agree. You are ambassador from a worldwide organization, but you are focused
in your area. Dont spect than other countries, should resign their indentity or needs.
This
is "common first world acception". You are concentred the problem in EMEA and
USA, and
theres a lot of ambassadors out of this places.
I live in Lebanon, which isn't part of the US or Europe (though it is
part of EMEA for the purpose of Fedora). And I definitely don't believe
that any ambassador should resign their identity or needs to a vague
hand-waving "greater good".
What I'm trying to say (and possibly saying very poorly) is that this
kind of competition between the Fedora Ambassador regions is bad. We
should be working together, not against each other. That's what I mean
by Fedora first, region second.
I am very aware that Fedora Ambassadors are far larger than EMEA and the
US, but it seems that this whole problem has risen because a member of
the latter distrusts the former (though this might be completely wrong).
And the new FAmSCo *must* make sure that
their highest priority is Fedora Ambassadors, not their particular
region (no matter what has gone before).
I dont know how is your condition in your region, as you dont know how is our condition
here.
So , the highest priority for Ambassador is "spread fedora", this is the
mission, the statement
and the purpose of Ambassador.
Yes, exactly!! The point I was making is that FAmSCo can't show
favoritism (which seemed to be the original accusation). Note that I'm
not insinuating that FAmSCo ever has shown favoritism or ever will.
You as an Ambassador will focus on your region. FAmSCo's job (at least
as I understand it) is to be a support to you as much as is possible.
If we succeed in this, the different regions will work
together
effectively, Fedora Ambassadors will grow and people like Bob will come
back. If we fail, then Fedora Ambassadors will be divided into
bickering groups that fade away into irrelevance.
Fedora Ambassadors are divided right now. I understand that the developing of the distro
must be focused in Red Hat based countries, it is common sense.But about Ambassador
roles, the leaving up of Bob, represents the inner crisis, that Ithink the new management
of FAMSCO
and the important continuing role of Max, wants to resolve.
All I was trying to say is that we as Fedora Ambassadors really need to
make sure that we're working together rather than fighting each other.
As for the development being focused on "Red Hat based countries", I
disagree. I'm currently working on yum-presto, a yum plugin designed to
reduce the download size of updates. Seeing as most "Red Hat based
countries" have bandwidth to spare, this isn't very useful for them.
However, for those of us with limited bandwidth, it's very helpful.
Bob, we will be sorry to see you go. I hope you will return
when you
see that your fears for FAmSCo's future aren't realized.
Yes, the same...
Best regards
P.
And the same to you. :)
Jonathan
12:07 p.m.
Hi
2008/1/16, Jonathan Dieter <jdieter(a)gmail.com>:
Hello,
I live in Lebanon, which isn't part of the US or Europe (though it is
part of EMEA for the purpose of Fedora). And I definitely don't believe
that any ambassador should resign their identity or needs to a vague
hand-waving "greater good".
Its not about indentity, its about, how is the real attention to other
"less stronger" countries.
If the idea is focused only on strong fedora ambassadors demography
countries, will never be
and wordwilde fedora community focused on each region and nation.
What I'm trying to say (and possibly saying very poorly) is that this
kind of competition between the Fedora Ambassador regions is bad.
Nobody talks about competition, I am talking about real needs. Dont get
confused about this.
Crisis is present. Theres countries with less attention than others. This is
a reality.
We
should be working together, not against each other. That's what
I mean
by Fedora first, region second.
In order to be possible, theres must be a region focused activity, if you
look forward
EMEA, your are not seeing under you region. The worldwide vision is true, it
exits and its
present, but the role in your region, is attend the needs of your region.
Autorreferencial vision
are need to promote fedora locally. You can see how the EMEA or US works,
but you must apply
this "methods" to your local needs, and sometimes, the local needs are
different than the "main models"
I am very aware that Fedora Ambassadors are far larger than EMEA and the
US, but it seems that this whole problem has risen because a member
of
the latter distrusts the former (though this might be completely wrong).
i dont think so about a distrust. Different vissions and opinions, doesnt
distrust anyone. We dont have
the need to go to the same place, with the same methods. We are united on
distro and vision about FLOSS,
but we have special different needs.
And the new FAmSCo *must* make sure that
> their highest priority is Fedora Ambassadors, not their
particular
> region (no matter what has gone before).
>
> I dont know how is your condition in your region, as you dont know how
is our condition here.
> So , the highest priority for Ambassador is "spread fedora", this is the
mission, the statement
> and the purpose of Ambassador.
Yes, exactly!! The point I was making is that FAmSCo can't show
favoritism (which seemed to be the original accusation).
Favoritism is not the correct word. The correct word is "focused on stronger
countries". This is not
a subjetive reflection. Reality show us, that the main idea is focused only
on stronger countries and
let in "the second stage" the "weak" countries.
Note that I'm
not insinuating that FAmSCo ever has shown favoritism or ever will.
So?....who insinuate this?...nobody insinuate anything. Nobody is telling
nothing against nobody.
We are talking about how to improve the processes...
You as an Ambassador will focus on your region. FAmSCo's job (at least
as I understand it) is to be a support to you as much as is possible.
Until today, FAMSCO was a "ghost" for me. Nothing more than a "cd/dvd
ship"
process.
The only REAL contact that i have with famsco is Rodrigo. Nothing else.
Nobody ask me
what i need for my region, my country or my local needs for events.
If we succeed in this, the different regions will work
together
> effectively, Fedora Ambassadors will grow and people like Bob
will come
> back. If we fail, then Fedora Ambassadors will be divided into
> bickering groups that fade away into irrelevance.
>
> Fedora Ambassadors are divided right now. I understand that the
developing of the distro
> must be focused in Red Hat based countries, it is common sense.But about
Ambassador
> roles, the leaving up of Bob, represents the inner crisis, that Ithink
the new management of FAMSCO
> and the important continuing role of Max, wants to resolve.
All I was trying to say is that we as Fedora Ambassadors really need to
make sure that we're working together rather than fighting each other.
Split is a reality. We have a structural problem about interpretation of
"local" and "global".
As for the development being focused on "Red Hat based countries", I
disagree. I'm currently working on yum-presto, a yum plugin
designed to
reduce the download size of updates. Seeing as most "Red Hat based
countries" have bandwidth to spare, this isn't very useful for them.
However, for those of us with limited bandwidth, it's very helpful.
"useful for everyone" will be better ;)
--
Pablo Barrera
3:17 p.m.
Yes, I am agree with some opinions, and I made post, and I sent a private
mail to max, paul and jack
about what is the really need for our region, i.e Latinamerica.
I am not worried about who was elected. I think that anyway, in spite of
some differences, all the people
chosen are good people, and was elected by the communty. I think that the
spirit of the Bob´s mails is about
how to get success in regions, where theres not representation. I think that
Famsco will try to make the best.
Dont you think?....
When I talk about the "changes", i.e moving to more chairs divided by
regions, to get more representative
ambassador (after this, the amount of ambassador for election, was very very
low), but this could be an oportunity
to find the way to improve the famsco and ambassadors work all around.
Best wishes!
Pablo Barrera
2008/1/15, Robert 'Bob' Jensen <marketing-list(a)fedoralinks.org>:
I have made a choice to resign from the Fedora Ambassadors project for a
couple reasons. First I do not feel that all ambassadors will be equally
represented by FAMSCo and its choice of leadership. Second now is the
time to begin rebuilding the Fedora Marketing Project in to what
Ambassadors could have been. I wish all the ambassadors that are not in
Europe or the EMEA area the best of luck you are going to need it in the
coming year.
For those ambassadors that are in the EMEA "think globally and act
locally" the choices you are making now will impact everyone in the
future.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
Former Fedora Ambassador, Former FAMSCo
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Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
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--
Pablo Barrera
3:47 p.m.
[lots of arguments that I have snipped out]
(1) It is true that the largest FUDCons have taken place in the United
States so far. I have spent the last two days working with Greg and
Jack to build a plan for the coming year (March 2008 - February 2009)
that will take FUDCon global, and allow us to put on a FUDCon in Europe
on the same level as the one we just had in Raleigh (perhaps even
bigger). This plan will also allow us to continue to have a large North
American-based FUDCon each year.
We will be submitting this plan up the chain for approval and budget
within the next few days.
(2) Included in this plan is specific goals to reach out in a far more
useful way to our Latin American and Asian communities also.
(3) Bob and the Fedora Unity team do great work for us. I have
personally given their team significant financial support in the past
year, including bringing them to speak at the Red Hat Summit. In turn,
they have built software and community that has been good for Fedora.
Our support of Bob and the Fedora Unity team continues -- we brought a
big chunk of them out to FUDCon this past weekend.
(4) Similarly, there can be no debate that the Ambassadors in Europe
have done excellent work. I was there twice last year, and incredibly
impressed both times.
I am very hopeful that my next job at Red Hat will enable me to work far
more closely with the Ambassadors and Marketing teams than I have in the
past as Fedora Project Leader, because my attention can be more focused
on a few parts of Fedora, rather than being split among all of Fedora.
If there are specific problems with the election that I am not
understanding or aware of, please let me know.
--Max
10:47 a.m.
FAmSCo is not Europe. FAmSCo is You.
FAmSCo is made by people voted by people, people who came from all the
World, moreover, each ambassador could nominate himself/herself and could be
a FAmSCo member. So i don't understand why you say FAmSCo is looking only at
Europe.
We were chosen by Ambassadors and we will work for everyone, it doesn't
matter the place where they live, their language: for FAmSCo each ambassador
is important.
Regards
Francesco Ugolini
2008/1/15, Robert 'Bob' Jensen <marketing-list(a)fedoralinks.org>:
I have made a choice to resign from the Fedora Ambassadors project for a
couple reasons. First I do not feel that all ambassadors will be equally
represented by FAMSCo and its choice of leadership. Second now is the
time to begin rebuilding the Fedora Marketing Project in to what
Ambassadors could have been. I wish all the ambassadors that are not in
Europe or the EMEA area the best of luck you are going to need it in the
coming year.
For those ambassadors that are in the EMEA "think globally and act
locally" the choices you are making now will impact everyone in the
future.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
Former Fedora Ambassador, Former FAMSCo
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
11:52 a.m.
+1 Mr. Ugolini,
that's also my point of view - work together and stop writing such
mails. There is no need for.
Kind regards,
Andreas Rau
Am Mittwoch, den 16.01.2008, 17:47 +0100 schrieb Francesco Ugolini:
FAmSCo is not Europe. FAmSCo is You.
FAmSCo is made by people voted by people, people who came from all the
World, moreover, each ambassador could nominate himself/herself and
could be a FAmSCo member. So i don't understand why you say FAmSCo is
looking only at Europe.
We were chosen by Ambassadors and we will work for everyone, it
doesn't matter the place where they live, their language: for FAmSCo
each ambassador is important.
Regards
Francesco Ugolini
2008/1/15, Robert 'Bob' Jensen <marketing-list(a)fedoralinks.org>:
I have made a choice to resign from the Fedora Ambassadors
project for a
couple reasons. First I do not feel that all ambassadors will
be equally
represented by FAMSCo and its choice of leadership. Second now
is the
time to begin rebuilding the Fedora Marketing Project in to
what
Ambassadors could have been. I wish all the ambassadors that
are not in
Europe or the EMEA area the best of luck you are going to need
it in the
coming year.
For those ambassadors that are in the EMEA "think globally and
act
locally" the choices you are making now will impact everyone
in the future.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
Former Fedora Ambassador, Former FAMSCo
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
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--
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Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
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12:09 p.m.
Yes, theres a need to get solve the problems. We must not turn the head to
other place.
We must look how to solve some problems. We need to talk about this
things...
One important member of former Famsco has gone....this represents something
important...
We are not perfect!
Reflection is needed now...
P.
2008/1/16, Andreas Rau <rau_a(a)web.de>:
+1 Mr. Ugolini,
that's also my point of view - work together and stop writing such
mails. There is no need for.
Kind regards,
Andreas Rau
Am Mittwoch, den 16.01.2008, 17:47 +0100 schrieb Francesco Ugolini:
> FAmSCo is not Europe. FAmSCo is You.
>
> FAmSCo is made by people voted by people, people who came from all the
> World, moreover, each ambassador could nominate himself/herself and
> could be a FAmSCo member. So i don't understand why you say FAmSCo is
> looking only at Europe.
>
> We were chosen by Ambassadors and we will work for everyone, it
> doesn't matter the place where they live, their language: for FAmSCo
> each ambassador is important.
>
> Regards
>
> Francesco Ugolini
>
>
>
> 2008/1/15, Robert 'Bob' Jensen <marketing-list(a)fedoralinks.org>:
> I have made a choice to resign from the Fedora Ambassadors
> project for a
> couple reasons. First I do not feel that all ambassadors will
> be equally
> represented by FAMSCo and its choice of leadership. Second now
> is the
> time to begin rebuilding the Fedora Marketing Project in to
> what
> Ambassadors could have been. I wish all the ambassadors that
> are not in
> Europe or the EMEA area the best of luck you are going to need
> it in the
> coming year.
>
> For those ambassadors that are in the EMEA "think globally and
> act
> locally" the choices you are making now will impact everyone
> in the future.
>
> Robert 'Bob' Jensen
> Former Fedora Ambassador, Former FAMSCo
>
> --
> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>
> --
> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
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Pablo Barrera
12:33 p.m.
Yes, it seems that we dont have the maturity to solve a problem deeply...
For my own, I will keep on working on Fedora on my country, at least this
year. Afterwards
the main important thing today for me, is what can i do for freedom in my
region.
Best regards
P.
2008/1/16, Ben Williams <ben(a)fedoraunity.org>:
I move for that this topic has been beaten enough and should therefor die
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Pablo Barrera
1:16 p.m.
Andreas Rau wrote:
> FAmSCo is not Europe. FAmSCo is You.
>
> FAmSCo is made by people voted by people, people who came from all the
> World, moreover, each ambassador could nominate himself/herself and
> could be a FAmSCo member. So i don't understand why you say FAmSCo is
> looking only at Europe.
>
> We were chosen by Ambassadors and we will work for everyone, it
> doesn't matter the place where they live, their language: for FAmSCo
> each ambassador is important.
>
> Regards
>
> Francesco Ugolini
>
>
>
Dear friends
Im back, and just want to drop some thoughts after reading a lot of
emails in the list, and after voting :)
If we focus on stronger communities, how are the weak ones are going to
progress? Imho, stronger communities should focus on weak ones to get
them stronger. Are we just helping RH to do more money on more
profitable countries or are we really caring on building a global floss
community? I believe in Fedora as a commitment from both sides,
enterprise and community.
Im not very active in the list, but im always doing my job promoting
Fedora and Rodrigo was the only famsco i recall who really cares about
our activities consistently, thanks Rodrigo. I really felt FAMSCO (2007)
in the past has no major role helping us in almost any way and facts are
that we must compete against stronger communities for resources and
attention in an unfair conditions which most of the times i tried in the
past just lead to nowhere but deception so we had to turn our heads to
ourselves and just forgot about FAMSCO and move on, then we made our own
progresses.
Some people would say the expend their own money and time to promote
Fedora and related activities, why they dont think that some other
people on other places all over the world just cant do that? Why they
dont think their social/work/living conditions are absolutely different
and that their opportunities and resources are so not comparable? Making
a global community from that starting point would have no sense if we
dont understand that and that we must compensate to promote fairness,
and as far of results, it looks like to me, that ambassador project is
out of tracks and that all of us should talk about that and promotes a
better Famsco, good luck and congrats and best wishes to all new
Famscos, u all have my support and my honesty.
I hope to have a better motivation to participate regularly
Guillermo Gómez
Fedora Ambassador
Caracas/Venezuela
12:05 p.m.
Well said! +1
From the perspective of a new ambassador, the Fedora Ambassadors
project is at a really exciting and interesting point. The discussion
of streamlining Fedora events, from the perspective of the EventKit and
marketing, and having the opportunity to work on these goals from a
global perspective and learn from each other is energizing, exciting,
and makes one feel part of the global Fedora community.
Let's move forward together and work towards the advancement of Fedora,
globally! I look forward to getting to know all of you through this
project.
Very best,
- pascal
Francesco Ugolini wrote:
FAmSCo is not Europe. FAmSCo is You.
FAmSCo is made by people voted by people, people who came from all the
World, moreover, each ambassador could nominate himself/herself and
could be a FAmSCo member. So i don't understand why you say FAmSCo is
looking only at Europe.
We were chosen by Ambassadors and we will work for everyone, it
doesn't matter the place where they live, their language: for FAmSCo
each ambassador is important.
Regards
Francesco Ugolini
7:31 p.m.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
I have made a choice to resign from the Fedora Ambassadors project
for a
couple reasons. First I do not feel that all ambassadors will be equally
represented by FAMSCo and its choice of leadership. Second now is the
time to begin rebuilding the Fedora Marketing Project in to what
Ambassadors could have been. I wish all the ambassadors that are not in
Europe or the EMEA area the best of luck you are going to need it in the
coming year.
For those ambassadors that are in the EMEA "think globally and act
locally" the choices you are making now will impact everyone in the future.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
Former Fedora Ambassador, Former FAMSCo
I just read the archives, I unsubscribed from the list, but this is
awesome, finally got some discussion going about the state of
ambassadors affairs. Based on what I read some of you must be feeling
guilty to make some of the assumptions you did about my resignation.
First those of you who wished me ill, shame on you and your house.
Second I seem to have not been clear in what I was trying to say so I
will say it again in greater detail.
"I do not feel that all ambassadors will be equally represented by
FAMSCo and its choice of leadership." The FAMSCo chair election did not
even include the ambassador that had the popular vote, this smells to
me. I have disagreed with some of FUgolini's ideas in the past so this
makes his appointment smart even more. This choice of leadership is not
enough for me to leave alone, I feel my time and resources are better
used elsewhere. As far as FAMSCo as a whole goes all of the people I
voted for were elected. "Second now is the time to begin rebuilding the
Fedora Marketing Project in to what Ambassadors could have been." The
Ambassadors project and the short lived idea that came before it took a
lot of wind out of the marketing sails along with some people leaving
Fedora. I am hoping we can regain some of that momentum in fedora
Marketing to provide the community and ambassadors with the best
possible resources and materials.
"I wish all the ambassadors that are not in Europe or the EMEA area the
best of luck you are going to need it in the coming year", You have a
long way to go to catch up with the team work and effectiveness that the
EMEA Ambassadors have reached.
"For those ambassadors that are in the EMEA 'think globally and act
locally' the choices you are making now will impact everyone in the
future." Separating yourselves from those in less capable areas that
have even fewer resources and ambassadors would be very bad for
Ambassadors as a whole. If one of you fail you all fail.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
Former Fedora Ambassador, Former FAMSCo
7:37 p.m.
We're going to work to improve *everything* related to Ambassadors and
Marketing in Fedora-land. I hope that when my new job is finalized, I
will be able to devote a big chunk of my time to that.
We are planning on a *GLOBAL* Ambassadors and marketing effort in the
coming year, with a stronger presence than ever before in all regions
around the world. Budget requests are being worked out.
Leaders are going to be needed all over the world, and Red Hat is going
to see to it that every region gets *something*.
So I beg you all... let's tone the heat down a little bit, give stuff a
chance to settle out over the next little while, and we'll put together
an entire plan for the year, and we'll do it in public.
Let's just all step back, lick our wounds, and let this thread die.
--Max
On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
I just read the archives, I unsubscribed from the list, but this is
awesome,
finally got some discussion going about the state of ambassadors affairs.
Based on what I read some of you must be feeling guilty to make some of the
assumptions you did about my resignation.
First those of you who wished me ill, shame on you and your house.
Second I seem to have not been clear in what I was trying to say so I will
say it again in greater detail.
"I do not feel that all ambassadors will be equally represented by FAMSCo and
its choice of leadership." The FAMSCo chair election did not even include the
ambassador that had the popular vote, this smells to me. I have disagreed
with some of FUgolini's ideas in the past so this makes his appointment smart
even more. This choice of leadership is not enough for me to leave alone, I
feel my time and resources are better used elsewhere. As far as FAMSCo as a
whole goes all of the people I voted for were elected. "Second now is the
time to begin rebuilding the Fedora Marketing Project in to what Ambassadors
could have been." The Ambassadors project and the short lived idea that came
before it took a lot of wind out of the marketing sails along with some
people leaving Fedora. I am hoping we can regain some of that momentum in
fedora Marketing to provide the community and ambassadors with the best
possible resources and materials.
"I wish all the ambassadors that are not in Europe or the EMEA area the best
of luck you are going to need it in the coming year", You have a long way to
go to catch up with the team work and effectiveness that the EMEA Ambassadors
have reached.
"For those ambassadors that are in the EMEA 'think globally and act locally'
the choices you are making now will impact everyone in the future."
Separating yourselves from those in less capable areas that have even fewer
resources and ambassadors would be very bad for Ambassadors as a whole. If
one of you fail you all fail.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
Former Fedora Ambassador, Former FAMSCo
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7:38 p.m.
Well with Francesco as chair I'm sure he can push through his earlier
proposal for inactive ambassadors.
-t
On Jan 16, 2008 5:31 PM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen
<marketing-list(a)fedoralinks.org> wrote:
Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
> I have made a choice to resign from the Fedora Ambassadors project for a
> couple reasons. First I do not feel that all ambassadors will be equally
> represented by FAMSCo and its choice of leadership. Second now is the
> time to begin rebuilding the Fedora Marketing Project in to what
> Ambassadors could have been. I wish all the ambassadors that are not in
> Europe or the EMEA area the best of luck you are going to need it in the
> coming year.
>
> For those ambassadors that are in the EMEA "think globally and act
> locally" the choices you are making now will impact everyone in the future.
>
> Robert 'Bob' Jensen
> Former Fedora Ambassador, Former FAMSCo
>
I just read the archives, I unsubscribed from the list, but this is
awesome, finally got some discussion going about the state of
ambassadors affairs. Based on what I read some of you must be feeling
guilty to make some of the assumptions you did about my resignation.
First those of you who wished me ill, shame on you and your house.
Second I seem to have not been clear in what I was trying to say so I
will say it again in greater detail.
"I do not feel that all ambassadors will be equally represented by
FAMSCo and its choice of leadership." The FAMSCo chair election did not
even include the ambassador that had the popular vote, this smells to
me. I have disagreed with some of FUgolini's ideas in the past so this
makes his appointment smart even more. This choice of leadership is not
enough for me to leave alone, I feel my time and resources are better
used elsewhere. As far as FAMSCo as a whole goes all of the people I
voted for were elected. "Second now is the time to begin rebuilding the
Fedora Marketing Project in to what Ambassadors could have been." The
Ambassadors project and the short lived idea that came before it took a
lot of wind out of the marketing sails along with some people leaving
Fedora. I am hoping we can regain some of that momentum in fedora
Marketing to provide the community and ambassadors with the best
possible resources and materials.
"I wish all the ambassadors that are not in Europe or the EMEA area the
best of luck you are going to need it in the coming year", You have a
long way to go to catch up with the team work and effectiveness that the
EMEA Ambassadors have reached.
"For those ambassadors that are in the EMEA 'think globally and act
locally' the choices you are making now will impact everyone in the
future." Separating yourselves from those in less capable areas that
have even fewer resources and ambassadors would be very bad for
Ambassadors as a whole. If one of you fail you all fail.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
Former Fedora Ambassador, Former FAMSCo
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Tony Guntharp
Co-Founder SourceForge.net
fusion94(a)gmail.com
6:38 a.m.
Thank you for resigning. It'd be a blame to be an ambassador while people with
your attitude are too.
I don't know why 4 EMEA ambassadors were voted into FAmSCo instead of only 3 or
even 2. Maybe, because mostly EMEA-ambassadors voted and others did not care?
Maybe, because 5 out of 11 nominees were from EMEA? Maybe because much work is
done in EMEA - by EMEA ambassadors and people noticed? Maybe because most
support went to the USA in the past years and people wanted to change this?
Btw, the previous FAmSCo consisted of 4 US ambassadors. Did you resign when they
were elected? I guess not.
Fedora ambassadors in EMEA are having a good time indeed. We're about to
establish that NPO of ours and this might mean that we'll finally get more
support. And yes, more EMEA ambassadors in FAmSCo could mean more support too.
But what would Fedora be without the non-EMEA people? What would we (EMEA)
ambassadors be then? We EMEA people know very well, that people (incl.
ambassadors) at other places are important. And - IMHO lacking quite some
support in the past years - we know how it is to be in need of support. I
therefore truly believe, that the current FAmSCo will do a very good job. The
best job they can possibly do. I know all 4 EMEA FAmSCo members in person, from
a handful events. I know they're doing a great job when they say they'll do. And
they're fair.
You're not, Bob.
Nevertheless, I wish you much success with your plans for marketing. In my
opinion, marketing is very important to us ambassadors - and we ambassadors for
marketing. Working together is the keyword there, exactly as is within the
ambassadors. Don't you dare to forget that!
Kind regards
red / SandroMathys
Robert 'Bob' Jensen <marketing-list(a)fedoralinks.org> hat am 15. Januar 2008
um
20:38 geschrieben:
I have made a choice to resign from the Fedora Ambassadors project
for a
couple reasons. First I do not feel that all ambassadors will be equally
represented by FAMSCo and its choice of leadership. Second now is the
time to begin rebuilding the Fedora Marketing Project in to what
Ambassadors could have been. I wish all the ambassadors that are not in
Europe or the EMEA area the best of luck you are going to need it in the
coming year.
For those ambassadors that are in the EMEA "think globally and act
locally" the choices you are making now will impact everyone in the future.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
Former Fedora Ambassador, Former FAMSCo
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ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
24 comments
18 participants
participants (18)
-
"Guillermo Gómez S." -
Andreas Rau -
Ben Williams -
Francesco Ugolini -
Gerold -
H. Guémar -
inode0 -
Jack Aboutboul -
Joerg Simon -
Jonathan Dieter -
Karsten Wade -
Max Spevack -
Pablo Barrera -
Pascal Calarco -
red_alert -
Robert 'Bob' Jensen -
Robert Scheck -
Tony Guntharp