5:17 p.m.
Dear FAmSCo,
I have some questions regarding our budget:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_report_2011-02 lists $3,780 for
F13 media production in EMEA. AFAIC we paid 3665 EUR, but this is more
than $3,780.
On the other hand, the same wiki page lists $7,980 for F14 media. I
guess this is the total budget that was approved, but according to the
ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/91 it was 5000 EUR.
Even with the all time high of the EUR we are currently seeing this is
hardly more than $7000.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/SXSW_2011 says that 5,880
media of the design spin were produced. AFAIK media production is
handled by the ambassadors and the budget is approved by FAmSCo, but I
cannot find anything about this in the wiki. Who ordered the media and
who approved the budget?
To me these numbers are really confusing and I wonder if there is a way
how to make things more transparent.
Regards,
Christoph
5:28 p.m.
On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, Christoph Wickert wrote:
I have some questions regarding our budget:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_report_2011-02 lists $3,780 for
F13 media production in EMEA. AFAIC we paid 3665 EUR, but this is more
than $3,780.
On the other hand, the same wiki page lists $7,980 for F14 media. I
guess this is the total budget that was approved, but according to the
ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/91 it was 5000 EUR.
Even with the all time high of the EUR we are currently seeing this is
hardly more than $7000.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/SXSW_2011 says that 5,880
media of the design spin were produced. AFAIK media production is
handled by the ambassadors and the budget is approved by FAmSCo, but I
cannot find anything about this in the wiki. Who ordered the media and
who approved the budget?
To me these numbers are really confusing and I wonder if there is a
way how to make things more transparent.
Christoph,
I will dig into this and attempt to bring more transparency to the
numbers. Thanks for bringing these questions up.
--Max
6:11 p.m.
On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, Christoph Wickert wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_report_2011-02 lists $3,780 for
F13 media production in EMEA. AFAIC we paid 3665 EUR, but this is more
than $3,780.
On the other hand, the same wiki page lists $7,980 for F14 media. I
guess this is the total budget that was approved, but according to the
ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/91 it was 5000 EUR.
Even with the all time high of the EUR we are currently seeing this is
hardly more than $7000.
Going back through my records from the past two calendar years (from
March 2009), I see the following purchase orders to MediaBit:
FY10 (March 2009 - Feb 2010):
March 2009 -- 530 EUR F10 media
June 2009 -- 3440 EUR F11 media
September 2009 -- 620 F11 media
December 2009 -- 1565 F12 media
January 2010 -- 1645 EUR F12 media
FY10 total -- 7800 EUR. You didn't ask about FY10, but I found that
information so I figured I'd write it down.
You did ask about FY11...
FY11 (March 2010 - Feb 2011):
May 2010 -- 3080 EUR F13 media
Jan 2011 -- 5000 EUR F14 media
FY11 total -- 8080 EUR
The final budget numbers that you referenced are $3780 USD for F13 and
$7980 USD for F14, for a total of $11,760.
Going to Google *today* and typing in "8080 EUR in USD" gives me
$11,493, which is pretty close. I think Red Hat does enough business in
all parts of the world that it can get pretty good currency conversion
rates, but keep in mind that MediaBit also charges Red Hat for shipping.
So it feels to me like the numbers for EMEA media are about right.
Does this help?
--Max
6:53 p.m.
Am Montag, den 21.03.2011, 19:11 -0400 schrieb Max Spevack:
FY11 (March 2010 - Feb 2011):
May 2010 -- 3080 EUR F13 media
Jan 2011 -- 5000 EUR F14 media
BTW: We didn't use the whole budget but because of the late order we
only did 300 media for a total of 2,376.62 EUR = $3,380.
FY11 total -- 8080 EUR
The final budget numbers that you referenced are $3780 USD for F13 and
$7980 USD for F14, for a total of $11,760.
Going to Google *today* and typing in "8080 EUR in USD" gives me
$11,493, which is pretty close.
Even if the total numbers match I wonder why the numbers for the
individual releases are so different. Where are they taken from? They
are obviously not the invoices but rather based on information you get
from your billing people, right?
I think Red Hat does enough business in
all parts of the world that it can get pretty good currency conversion
rates, but keep in mind that MediaBit also charges Red Hat for shipping.
AFAIK shipping is already included in the invoices from MediaBit, at
least in the one I have and all others I have seen.
So it feels to me like the numbers for EMEA media are about right.
Does this help?
Yes it does. Thanks for sharing this information with us.
My question was more about where the numbers are from than if the
numbers were correct. I didn't expect you to go through all the bills of
the last years now because we all trust you. I think you have more
important things to do and we should try to help you. I hope the
Financial SIG is a good approach to share the workload and have more
transparency.
Regards,
Christoph
7:16 p.m.
On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, Christoph Wickert wrote:
BTW: We didn't use the whole budget but because of the late order
we
only did 300 media for a total of 2,376.62 EUR = $3,380.
Well, we will all collectively (and I in particular on my end) make sure
we get a purchase order for F15 media in EMEA opened far in advance even
of the final images being ready.
> FY11 total -- 8080 EUR
>
> The final budget numbers that you referenced are $3780 USD for F13
> and $7980 USD for F14, for a total of $11,760.
>
> Going to Google *today* and typing in "8080 EUR in USD" gives me
> $11,493, which is pretty close.
Even if the total numbers match I wonder why the numbers for the
individual releases are so different. Where are they taken from? They
are obviously not the invoices but rather based on information you get
from your billing people, right?
We don't often work with Purchase Orders for Fedora costs. Most
everything is put on credit cards, with the exception of media, because
that's a lot of money.
The way it works with the purchase orders is:
In NA, the Ambassadors figure out how much they want to produce, we get
an estimate from the vendor on how much they think that will cost, I
open a purchase order for that amount in USD, and then the vendors send
the invoices in to the finance department. Once the person who opened
the PO (in this case me) notes that the media was received, the vendor
gets paid.
The process in EMEA is similar, but we've always needed help because
someone in Munich has to open the Purchase Order in EUR for the MediaBit
supplier. This used to be Alessandra, and this most recent time Daniela
has helped us out, for which I have given her many many thanks :) On my
end, what I see is "$FOO in RH Europe opened a purchase order for 5000
EUR ($X USD) on your behalf for supplier $BAR. Do you approve?" I say
yes. I note down that amount in my personal budget tracking which ends
up on the public expenses page, and then I pretty much just assume that
all the German speaking folks take care of the details.
My question was more about where the numbers are from than if the
numbers were correct. I didn't expect you to go through all the bills
of the last years now because we all trust you. I think you have more
important things to do and we should try to help you. I hope the
Financial SIG is a good approach to share the workload and have more
transparency.
Christoph, I sincerely am glad that there are people out there like you
who actually bother to take a look at, and ask questions about, all of
the financial transparency that we do. It makes me feel like that work
is worthwhile.
--Max
7:29 p.m.
Am Dienstag, den 22.03.2011, 00:53 +0100 schrieb Christoph Wickert:
Am Montag, den 21.03.2011, 19:11 -0400 schrieb Max Spevack:
> FY11 (March 2010 - Feb 2011):
>
> May 2010 -- 3080 EUR F13 media
> Jan 2011 -- 5000 EUR F14 media
BTW: We didn't use the whole budget but because of the late order we
only did 300 media for a total of 2,376.62 EUR = $3,380.
Of course this should have read 3000 instead of 300, otherwise the media
would be pretty expensive. ;)
Regards,
Christoph
7:45 p.m.
Am Montag, den 21.03.2011, 19:11 -0400 schrieb Max Spevack:
Does this help?
I already said that yesterday: It helps a lot.
However you missed one thing: The batch of 5880 Design Suite media that
were produced for SXSW. This media violates
* the "Media Handout Requirements" of the board [1]
* the Spins Process defined by the Spins SIG [2]
* the workflow for media production [3]
* the FAmSCo's right to manage the budget for media handed out on
events [4].
Jared said that the money for this batch was taken directly from your
budget, however I cannot find it in the wiki.
Please don't get me wrong: I have nothing against the Design Suite or
that we are spending money on it. But it's very frustrating to see the
EMEA ambassadors fight for their Multi Desktop Spin for months and run
in circles but one the other hand we all over sudden have somebody
produce a media in a bigger batch than the overall EMEA media production
with literally no governance. Seems like things are easier if one lives
in NA and/or works for RH.
Regards,
Christoph
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Media_Handout_Requirements
[2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Spins_Process
[3] + [4] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Media_production
[4] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo
10:15 a.m.
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Christoph Wickert wrote:
Jared said that the money for this batch was taken directly from your
budget, however I cannot find it in the wiki.
Hi Christoph,
I can't speak to the actual process by which the SXSW media was
assembled, but I can shed some light on the budget side of it.
As you know, the end of January and the beginning of February was the
weeks leading up to the end of Red Hat's fiscal year. Because FUDCon
Tempe was right in that time frame, there were a ton of expenses
incurred by different Red Hat employees that were being transferred
ultimately to the CommArch budget. Part of my job was to track all of
these so that internal and external budget reports could be made, and
could be as accurate as possible.
At the same time, it was clear to me that we were going to finish the
year a little bit under budget. So when Spot asked me "do you have $3k
for SXSW media" I said "yes, assuming you can get it billed to my cost
center by the end of the fiscal year".
Because of the urgent nature of Spot's request -- the expense report
came in right under the cutoff for the end of the fiscal year, my plan
was to charge that against CommArch's discretionary budget, which had
enough money left to cover the cost, and which is what we use to cover
stuff that comes up at the last second or doesn't fit into any other
category, but is useful for Fedora.
Upon further review of my records, I notice that I mis-labeled that
expense report as one of the FUDCon Tempe ones when it should have been
SXSW.
Thus, on this page (which is the revision that represents the final FY11
budget numbers)
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Community_Architecture_expens...
the FUDCon Tempe line should be $3k less and the discretionary budget
section should be $3k higher. All the numbers are all correct, but
there is a tagging error which I'll have to correct, and for which I
apologize. And that's why you couldn't find it on the wiki.
--Max
8:59 p.m.
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Max Spevack wrote:
Thus, on this page (which is the revision that represents the final
FY11 budget numbers)
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Community_Architecture_expens...
the FUDCon Tempe line should be $3k less and the discretionary budget
section should be $3k higher. All the numbers are all correct, but
there is a tagging error which I'll have to correct, and for which I
apologize. And that's why you couldn't find it on the wiki.
This has now been fixed.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Accounting#FY11
--Max
12:16 p.m.
Just to let keep everyone in the loop. At the Board IRC meeting today
we discussed some of the issues raised in this email. We want to let
everyone know the issues aren't being ignored, and that discussion has
been happening. This is also on the agenda for next week's Board
meeting after which we'll provide another update.
Thanks,
David Nalley
4775
days inactive
4783
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ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
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