Hi all,
It's a long time ago...exactly during the presentation during the FAD at Berlin I showed a slide (Page 7) [1]. This slide contains an overview of some weekly meetings. After a short discussion about why are there always a lot of European ambassadors at both time (FYI 22:00 UTC is midnight in western europe). Someone suggested to split the meetings. An European meeting at a pleasant moment...but now we can't split due to lack of attendance.
Since LinuxTag there were 18 meetings. 14 were canceled!
Do we still need weekly meetings? Is it an overkill? Is it just a waste of time? Today for me it was just wasting time. Three people showed up.
Are the reasons...
- I don't care what the other ambassadors do. - We have nothing to discuss. I don't know what to tell. - South America is far away, I'm not interested in stuff from there. - I have other stuff to do and can't take 30 min off. - I live in the wrong time zone.
I guess that there is no more any need for exchanging information between the ambassadors about events and how stuff can be done because everybody have enough experience to handle it.
On the Join page [2] of the Ambassadors Project...
Step 1. Participate in weekly meetings
Perhaps it would be a good idea to remove that step. No meeting, no possibility for a participation...FAMSco, this could be a topic for your next meeting. For your half-yearly meeting ;-)
Just my thoughts...
Regards,
Fabian
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADLinuxTag2007 [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Join
fre, 26 10 2007 kl. 00:49 +0200, skrev Fabian Affolter:
Hi all,
It's a long time ago...exactly during the presentation during the FAD at Berlin I showed a slide (Page 7) [1]. This slide contains an overview of some weekly meetings. After a short discussion about why are there always a lot of European ambassadors at both time (FYI 22:00 UTC is midnight in western europe). Someone suggested to split the meetings. An European meeting at a pleasant moment...but now we can't split due to lack of attendance.
Since LinuxTag there were 18 meetings. 14 were canceled!
Do we still need weekly meetings? Is it an overkill? Is it just a waste of time? Today for me it was just wasting time. Three people showed up.
Are the reasons...
- I don't care what the other ambassadors do.
- We have nothing to discuss. I don't know what to tell.
- South America is far away, I'm not interested in stuff from there.
- I have other stuff to do and can't take 30 min off.
- I live in the wrong time zone.
I guess that there is no more any need for exchanging information between the ambassadors about events and how stuff can be done because everybody have enough experience to handle it.
On the Join page [2] of the Ambassadors Project...
Step 1. Participate in weekly meetings
Perhaps it would be a good idea to remove that step. No meeting, no possibility for a participation...FAMSco, this could be a topic for your next meeting. For your half-yearly meeting ;-)
It might be more apt to just call for a meeting when we really need one instead of having one each week just for the sake of it, but being a global project IRC meetings will always be at the wrong time for someone - e.g. today was midnight for me and I was sleeping, even attending at such an hour is stetchy at best (never mind that I woke up at 2am).
I say we aim towards a model that leverages the mailing list more, it's not like we can't have an intelligent debate this way and it would allow everyone to voice his/her opinion without interferring with mere human things like sleep, food or work.
So +1 for removing the step from here.
Regardless I think the low attentence is mainly down to the fact that in most parts of the world regardless of how you plan it, it's simply going to be time that is unavailable to most people to being IRCing. Besides what can we do in such a meeting that cannot be resolved by a nice mail thread? So I doubt it's a lack of caring.
- David Nielsen
David Nielsen wrote:
fre, 26 10 2007 kl. 00:49 +0200, skrev Fabian Affolter:
Hi all,
It's a long time ago...exactly during the presentation during the FAD at Berlin I showed a slide (Page 7) [1]. This slide contains an overview of some weekly meetings. After a short discussion about why are there always a lot of European ambassadors at both time (FYI 22:00 UTC is midnight in western europe). Someone suggested to split the meetings. An European meeting at a pleasant moment...but now we can't split due to lack of attendance.
Since LinuxTag there were 18 meetings. 14 were canceled!
Do we still need weekly meetings? Is it an overkill? Is it just a waste of time? Today for me it was just wasting time. Three people showed up.
Are the reasons...
- I don't care what the other ambassadors do.
- We have nothing to discuss. I don't know what to tell.
- South America is far away, I'm not interested in stuff from there.
- I have other stuff to do and can't take 30 min off.
- I live in the wrong time zone.
I guess that there is no more any need for exchanging information between the ambassadors about events and how stuff can be done because everybody have enough experience to handle it.
On the Join page [2] of the Ambassadors Project...
Step 1. Participate in weekly meetings
Perhaps it would be a good idea to remove that step. No meeting, no possibility for a participation...FAMSco, this could be a topic for your next meeting. For your half-yearly meeting ;-)
It might be more apt to just call for a meeting when we really need one instead of having one each week just for the sake of it, but being a global project IRC meetings will always be at the wrong time for someone
- e.g. today was midnight for me and I was sleeping, even attending at
such an hour is stetchy at best (never mind that I woke up at 2am).
I say we aim towards a model that leverages the mailing list more, it's not like we can't have an intelligent debate this way and it would allow everyone to voice his/her opinion without interferring with mere human things like sleep, food or work.
So +1 for removing the step from here.
Regardless I think the low attentence is mainly down to the fact that in most parts of the world regardless of how you plan it, it's simply going to be time that is unavailable to most people to being IRCing. Besides what can we do in such a meeting that cannot be resolved by a nice mail thread? So I doubt it's a lack of caring.
- David Nielsen
I am one of those frequently absent ambassadors. I formerly attended meetings on a pretty regular basis, but largely I have to agree with David and Fabian they appear to largely have lost significance. Compared to other groups (like the Fedora Infrastructure group) it appears little is accomplished. Sit in on the infrastructure meeting and see the work that gets handed out, decisions that are made, etc. The ambassador meeting used to be this way - I remember before FC5 having discussions with people from RH (gregdek and Alex) about how CD/DVDs would be made, creating 'tours' for FC5, etc. I think a lot of that was because Greg and Alex really pushed Ambassadors and involvement before there was a lot of community infrastructure in the Fedora Project, perhaps a lot of those decisions have been pushed to other areas. The recent meetings I have been to or read the logs from tend to be reporting on events, and we have lots of meetings that are cancelled. The questions that I have had in determining whether to attend is: 1. What am I going to accomplish in return for attending. 2. How does my attendance further the aims of the Ambassadors or fp.o. I have used IRC for collaborating with other ambassadors when I have been working with them on an event, but could have just as easily used email. Have you looked at our schedule, which is supposed to be our agenda for meetings? Specifically - look at the issues, and closed issues - April 2006 as our last closed issue? Standing meetings are great, but if they don't accomplish anything perhaps we need to reexamine them. I am specifically interested in Greg's take on where the Ambassadors are today - is this what you envisioned? FAMSCO members, as fp.o grows, what is our continued role to be?
Hi *,
imho the weekly meetings are a little bit overkill :-( All the reasons Fabian wrote and asked for are a part of "why I don't attend" (for me) ...
On the other hand, we have had the "GO" from Max on LT2007 to establish our own EMEA-Ambassadors meeting, BUT ...
... nobody taked care for it ... nobody has invited the other ... nobody is responsible for that kind of meeting(s)
The Ambassadors in Germany meet each other a couple time in a year on a Event, on a FAD (reminder: next in approx. 4 weeks) to talk in person, to organize Events, to have fun together. And in my eyes, the FAD is more effectiv that one year of IRC-Meetings ... Please don`t misunderstood, IRC metings are important, too. For sure, but not every week.
Maybe there are different steps to get us all at the round table ...
... change period from weekly to monthly ... meetings in timezones +1 and -1 or max. +2 and -2 ... define two responsible Ambassadors for each region ... more contact und presence from/with Max
JUst my five cents
Gerold
Am Freitag, den 26.10.2007, 00:49 +0200 schrieb Fabian Affolter:
Hi all,
It's a long time ago...exactly during the presentation during the FAD at Berlin I showed a slide (Page 7) [1]. This slide contains an overview of some weekly meetings. After a short discussion about why are there always a lot of European ambassadors at both time (FYI 22:00 UTC is midnight in western europe). Someone suggested to split the meetings. An European meeting at a pleasant moment...but now we can't split due to lack of attendance.
Since LinuxTag there were 18 meetings. 14 were canceled!
Do we still need weekly meetings? Is it an overkill? Is it just a waste of time? Today for me it was just wasting time. Three people showed up.
Are the reasons...
- I don't care what the other ambassadors do.
- We have nothing to discuss. I don't know what to tell.
- South America is far away, I'm not interested in stuff from there.
- I have other stuff to do and can't take 30 min off.
- I live in the wrong time zone.
I guess that there is no more any need for exchanging information between the ambassadors about events and how stuff can be done because everybody have enough experience to handle it.
On the Join page [2] of the Ambassadors Project...
Step 1. Participate in weekly meetings
Perhaps it would be a good idea to remove that step. No meeting, no possibility for a participation...FAMSco, this could be a topic for your next meeting. For your half-yearly meeting ;-)
Just my thoughts...
Regards,
Fabian
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADLinuxTag2007 [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Join
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
On 10/25/07, Gerold Kassube gerold@lugd.org wrote:
Hi *,
imho the weekly meetings are a little bit overkill :-( All the reasons Fabian wrote and asked for are a part of "why I don't attend" (for me) ...
Hi Gerold and Fabian, I hate to say but I agree with you. I think weekly meeting *is* overkill for our current situation.
Therefore, I would like to propose the meeting frequency to monthly. Please let me know your thought.
Regards,
+1
On 10/26/07, Thomas Chung tchung@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On 10/25/07, Gerold Kassube gerold@lugd.org wrote:
Hi *,
imho the weekly meetings are a little bit overkill :-( All the reasons Fabian wrote and asked for are a part of "why I don't attend" (for me) ...
Hi Gerold and Fabian, I hate to say but I agree with you. I think weekly meeting *is* overkill for our current situation.
Therefore, I would like to propose the meeting frequency to monthly. Please let me know your thought.
Regards,
Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
+1 for me also ------------------------- Regards
Subhodip Biswas
GPG key : FAEA34AB Server : pgp.mit.edu http://subhodipbiswas.wordpress.com http:/www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SubhodipBiswas
+1
El vie, 26-10-2007 a las 11:33 -0700, Thomas Chung escribió:
On 10/25/07, Gerold Kassube gerold@lugd.org wrote:
Hi *,
imho the weekly meetings are a little bit overkill :-( All the reasons Fabian wrote and asked for are a part of "why I don't attend" (for me) ...
Hi Gerold and Fabian, I hate to say but I agree with you. I think weekly meeting *is* overkill for our current situation.
Therefore, I would like to propose the meeting frequency to monthly. Please let me know your thought.
+1 for monthly meetings
Regards,
Le Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:33:54 -0700, "Thomas Chung" tchung@fedoraproject.org a écrit :
On 10/25/07, Gerold Kassube gerold@lugd.org wrote:
Hi *,
imho the weekly meetings are a little bit overkill :-( All the reasons Fabian wrote and asked for are a part of "why I don't attend" (for me) ...
Hi Gerold and Fabian, I hate to say but I agree with you. I think weekly meeting *is* overkill for our current situation.
Therefore, I would like to propose the meeting frequency to monthly. Please let me know your thought.
Regards,
Well, monthly meeting will be a failure as well from my point of view.
Alex used to recall the list before each meeting. Not 30 min before, but several hours before. (at least 12h). For example, I am completely unable to tell you what is the present time of the amb meeting.
Thomas
Sorry Thomas, we used to recall people one day before, see the M-L archives (and refer to meeting organized by FAmSCo) . The problem aren't the organizers, and Global meetings are different from French Meetings, we are talking about meeting that involving all the World (and different languages), we have to discuss about thing could real interest all attendees, we have to find a solution that differs for meeting reminders etc...
You are continuing speculate on Alex meetings, see (all) the past meetings logs and see how many people attend those ones: you will find tha same number since the beginnig of Amb. project.
It's not a problem of leadership, there is a lack of Arguments.
Ok, we can continue discussing this problem for days and days, but we will never arrive to a conclusion if we will not focus on a real (concrete) solution.
Regards
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Thomas Canniot mrtom@fedoraproject.org A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Dom 28 Ott 2007 8:46 Oggetto: Re: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Alex used to recall the list before each meeting. Not 30 min before, but several hours before. (at least 12h). For example, I am completely unable to tell you what is the present time of the amb meeting.
Thomas
-------------------------------------------
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Le Sun, 28 Oct 2007 06:09:28 -0400, francescougolini@aol.it a écrit :
Ok, we can continue discussing this problem for days and days, but we will never arrive to a conclusion if we will not focus on a real (concrete) solution.
That you don't do either.
Thomas
I have just expresses my position one or two days ago: i agree completely with Gerold ideas.
Now the others ambassadors can explain their proposal and/or express their possition on the actual ones.
Best regards
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Thomas Canniot mrtom@fedoraproject.org A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Dom 28 Ott 2007 17:23 Oggetto: Re: R: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Le Sun, 28 Oct 2007 06:09:28 -0400, francescougolini@aol.it a écrit :
Ok, we can continue discussing this problem for days and days, but we will never arrive to a conclusion if we will not focus on a real (concrete) solution.
That you don't do either.
Thomas
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I've stopped to lead meetings because nobody took care of those. I know they could became a de facto standard for the communication between people living in different country. But actually it doesn't make sens at all.
Yeah, we can discuss about the reason to organize or not to organize a meeting, but first of all we have to ask ourselves: are we interested in those "events"?
Personally i think they are really important, if more than 15%/20% of Ambassadors will join this.
Best regards
Francesco Ugolini -----Messaggio originario----- Da: Fabian Affolter fab@fedoraproject.org A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Ven 26 Ott 2007 0:49 Oggetto: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Hi all,
It's a long time ago...exactly during the presentation during the FAD at Berlin I showed a slide (Page 7) [1]. This slide contains an overview of some weekly meetings. After a short discussion about why are there always a lot of European ambassadors at both time (FYI 22:00 UTC is midnight in western europe). Someone suggested to split the meetings. An European meeting at a pleasant moment...but now we can't split due to lack of attendance.
Since LinuxTag there were 18 meetings. 14 were canceled!
Do we still need weekly meetings? Is it an overkill? Is it just a waste of time? Today for me it was just wasting time. Three people showed up.
Are the reasons...
- I don't care what the other ambassadors do. - We have nothing to discuss. I don't know what to tell. - South America is far away, I'm not interested in stuff from there. - I have other stuff to do and can't take 30 min off. - I live in the wrong time zone.
I guess that there is no more any need for exchanging information between the ambassadors about events and how stuff can be done because everybody have enough experience to handle it.
On the Join page [2] of the Ambassadors Project...
Step 1. Participate in weekly meetings
Perhaps it would be a good idea to remove that step. No meeting, no possibility for a participation...FAMSco, this could be a topic for your next meeting. For your half-yearly meeting ;-)
Just my thoughts...
Regards,
Fabian
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADLinuxTag2007 [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Join
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________________________________________________________________________ Email gratis per tutti su AOL! Scopri tutti i servizi gratuiti di AOL su AOL.it.
Fabian Affolter wrote:
Hi all,
It's a long time ago...exactly during the presentation during the FAD at Berlin I showed a slide (Page 7) [1]. This slide contains an overview of some weekly meetings. After a short discussion about why are there always a lot of European ambassadors at both time (FYI 22:00 UTC is midnight in western europe). Someone suggested to split the meetings. An European meeting at a pleasant moment...but now we can't split due to lack of attendance.
Since LinuxTag there were 18 meetings. 14 were canceled!
Do we still need weekly meetings? Is it an overkill? Is it just a waste of time? Today for me it was just wasting time. Three people showed up.
Are the reasons...
- I don't care what the other ambassadors do.
- We have nothing to discuss. I don't know what to tell.
- South America is far away, I'm not interested in stuff from there.
- I have other stuff to do and can't take 30 min off.
- I live in the wrong time zone.
I guess that there is no more any need for exchanging information between the ambassadors about events and how stuff can be done because everybody have enough experience to handle it.
On the Join page [2] of the Ambassadors Project...
Step 1. Participate in weekly meetings
Perhaps it would be a good idea to remove that step. No meeting, no possibility for a participation...FAMSco, this could be a topic for your next meeting. For your half-yearly meeting ;-)
Just my thoughts...
Regards,
Fabian
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADLinuxTag2007 [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Join
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Personally I quit giving a crap about the ambassadors project and meetings when there was talk about throwing people out, creating a good ole boys club. As it appears this happened anyhow, only people were not thrown out they were just alienated. There are no events in my area of the US and quite honestly I do not have the resources to create one or travel more than an hour by car to get to one. The heavy activity of European Ambassadors does not help many of us in the US and perhaps other parts of the world because of cultural differences. It seams that the EU Ambassadors have no trouble traveling and taking time off of work to do something for the project, I on the other hand have a family to feed and a business to take care of.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
Nobody was trow out: we had a discussion and people said clearly they disagree completely with this proposal.
So i think it couldn't really help the project trying to speculate using obsolete arguments: we have just to do what you want (freely) to do.
Yes, yo may disagree with my idea, but i'm not an imperor (i'm an ambassador like you), i've just prosed some (costructive) discussions and, as you have seen, a lot of people join those ones and take their position (and they won).
Another point. We don't want to make comparison between ambassadors, countries etc...: this isn't the right place and we know each person has different possibilities.
So, I hope you will think about those words.
We haven't fire anybody, we don't want to give a prize for the most active ambassadors' Country but we want people who are not angried, unsatisfied or just disappointed.
Best regards
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Robert 'Bob' Jensen marketing-list@fedoralinks.org A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Lun 29 Ott 2007 18:25 Oggetto: Re: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Fabian Affolter wrote:
Hi all,
It's a long time ago...exactly during the presentation during the FAD
at
Berlin I showed a slide (Page 7) [1]. This slide contains an
overview
of some weekly meetings. After a short discussion about why are
there
always a lot of European ambassadors at both time (FYI 22:00 UTC is
midnight in western europe). Someone suggested to split the
meetings.
An European meeting at a pleasant moment...but now we can't split due
to
lack of attendance.
Since LinuxTag there were 18 meetings. 14 were canceled!
Do we still need weekly meetings? Is it an overkill? Is it just a
waste of time? Today for me it was just wasting time. Three people
showed up.
Are the reasons...
- I don't care what the other ambassadors do.
- We have nothing to discuss. I don't know what to tell.
- South America is far away, I'm not interested in stuff from there.
- I have other stuff to do and can't take 30 min off.
- I live in the wrong time zone.
I guess that there is no more any need for exchanging information
between the ambassadors about events and how stuff can be done
because
everybody have enough experience to handle it.
On the Join page [2] of the Ambassadors Project...
Step 1. Participate in weekly meetings
Perhaps it would be a good idea to remove that step. No meeting, no
possibility for a participation...FAMSco, this could be a topic for
your
next meeting. For your half-yearly meeting ;-)
Just my thoughts...
Regards,
Fabian
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Personally I quit giving a crap about the ambassadors project and meetings when there was talk about throwing people out, creating a good ole boys club. As it appears this happened anyhow, only people were not thrown out they were just alienated. There are no events in my area of the US and quite honestly I do not have the resources to create one or travel more than an hour by car to get to one. The heavy activity of European Ambassadors does not help many of us in the US and perhaps other parts of the world because of cultural differences. It seams that the EU Ambassadors have no trouble traveling and taking time off of work to do something for the project, I on the other hand have a family to feed and a business to take care of.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
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Dear Francesco Ugolini!
In the year 2006 was a small Linux Day in Tirol/Austria! Because I am am big fan of the Fedora distribution and the lack of any Fedora presence on that event, I thought about doing some advertisement for the Fedora Project! There was no way to get some nice Fedora stuff, without joining the Fedora Ambassador Project! So I did that and I do not regret it.
But the meetings are at times, very hard for me to attend! I work in a hotel and at (14:00 UTC) 16:00 I have to work all the time. Sure I have a day off, but that day changes every season. The meetings at (22:00 UTC) 0:00 are very late, especially when you have to get up early...
I am sure there are also other people in my situation! We have our lives, our obligations, our work and our families! So why do we not think about a way to communicate where people can attend when and if they want? A Ambassador forum where we communicate via threads independent from time,location and situation!
If there are IRC meetings every month, and the meetings are hold on times I can attend, I will attend.
And your proposal in the past to fire people from the Ambassador project, is imho just unconscionable.
There are people like me, not involved in IT, wo have to work for their life, their family, attend their friends and little rest of the time to their hobbies!Maybe one of this hobby is Linux/Fedora. So if they advertise Fedora to everyone who is interested in Linux, talk about it and even go to local events and represent the Fedora Project, imho that is enought to be an ambassador!
I am one of this kind and if you wish to fire someone, start with me.
Claus Reheis
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 06:09 -0400, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
Nobody was trow out: we had a discussion and people said clearly they disagree completely with this proposal.
So i think it couldn't really help the project trying to speculate using obsolete arguments: we have just to do what you want (freely) to do.
Yes, yo may disagree with my idea, but i'm not an imperor (i'm an ambassador like you), i've just prosed some (costructive) discussions and, as you have seen, a lot of people join those ones and take their position (and they won).
Another point. We don't want to make comparison between ambassadors, countries etc...: this isn't the right place and we know each person has different possibilities.
So, I hope you will think about those words.
We haven't fire anybody, we don't want to give a prize for the most active ambassadors' Country but we want people who are not angried, unsatisfied or just disappointed.
Best regards
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Robert 'Bob' Jensen marketing-list@fedoralinks.org A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Lun 29 Ott 2007 18:25 Oggetto: Re: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Fabian Affolter wrote:
Hi all,
It's a long time ago...exactly during the presentation during the FAD
at
Berlin I showed a slide (Page 7) [1]. This slide contains an
overview
of some weekly meetings. After a short discussion about why are
there
always a lot of European ambassadors at both time (FYI 22:00 UTC is
midnight in western europe). Someone suggested to split the
meetings.
An European meeting at a pleasant moment...but now we can't split due
to
lack of attendance.
Since LinuxTag there were 18 meetings. 14 were canceled!
Do we still need weekly meetings? Is it an overkill? Is it just a
waste of time? Today for me it was just wasting time. Three people
showed up.
Are the reasons...
- I don't care what the other ambassadors do.
- We have nothing to discuss. I don't know what to tell.
- South America is far away, I'm not interested in stuff from there.
- I have other stuff to do and can't take 30 min off.
- I live in the wrong time zone.
I guess that there is no more any need for exchanging information
between the ambassadors about events and how stuff can be done
because
everybody have enough experience to handle it.
On the Join page [2] of the Ambassadors Project...
Step 1. Participate in weekly meetings
Perhaps it would be a good idea to remove that step. No meeting, no
possibility for a participation...FAMSco, this could be a topic for
your
next meeting. For your half-yearly meeting ;-)
Just my thoughts...
Regards,
Fabian
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Personally I quit giving a crap about the ambassadors project and meetings when there was talk about throwing people out, creating a good ole boys club. As it appears this happened anyhow, only people were not thrown out they were just alienated. There are no events in my area of the US and quite honestly I do not have the resources to create one or travel more than an hour by car to get to one. The heavy activity of European Ambassadors does not help many of us in the US and perhaps other parts of the world because of cultural differences. It seams that the EU Ambassadors have no trouble traveling and taking time off of work to do something for the project, I on the other hand have a family to feed and a business to take care of.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
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First of all i never proposed to fire people (i hope someone has understood this thing) and it wouldn't a proposal but a topic to start a serious discussion over the future of the project. I don't know where you have read the word "fire", "trown out" etc.... but as you know i want to help people not to create problems and frustrations or to force people doing something: I never thought to remove people from the project.
And, please, stop this past (closed) discussion (see the Thomas Chung's Message to M-L for more information).
I think the IRC weekly meetings are one of the place you can communicate with Ambassadors, but there are a lot of other tools like M-L and Ambassadors' EMAIL (in many ambassadors' wikis).
As happened for the last Italian Linux Day many contributors, that weren't ambassadors, ask me for CDs. DVDs and similar stuffs, and personally i've tried to complete all the request.
I f you need help you may contact one of you country's ambassador asking him to help you not only asking him materials but what you want. At the end we are here to do those things.
Hoping i've answered (completely) to your questions and staying avaiable for any other ones
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Claus Reheis polytropolis@gmail.com A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Mar 30 Ott 2007 14:21 Oggetto: Re: R: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Dear Francesco Ugolini!
In the year 2006 was a small Linux Day in Tirol/Austria! Because I am am big fan of the Fedora distribution and the lack of any Fedora presence on that event, I thought about doing some advertisement for the Fedora Project! There was no way to get some nice Fedora stuff, without joining the Fedora Ambassador Project! So I did that and I do not regret it.
But the meetings are at times, very hard for me to attend! I work in a hotel and at (14:00 UTC) 16:00 I have to work all the time. Sure I have a day off, but that day changes every season. The meetings at (22:00 UTC) 0:00 are very late, especially when you have to get up early...
I am sure there are also other people in my situation! We have our lives, our obligations, our work and our families! So why do we not think about a way to communicate where people can attend when and if they want? A Ambassador forum where we communicate via threads independent from time,location and situation!
If there are IRC meetings every month, and the meetings are hold on times I can attend, I will attend.
And your proposal in the past to fire people from the Ambassador project, is imho just unconscionable.
There are people like me, not involved in IT, wo have to work for their life, their family, attend their friends and little rest of the time to their hobbies!Maybe one of this hobby is Linux/Fedora. So if they advertise Fedora to everyone who is interested in Linux, talk about it and even go to local events and represent the Fedora Project, imho that is enought to be an ambassador!
I am one of this kind and if you wish to fire someone, start with me.
Claus Reheis
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 06:09 -0400, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
Nobody was trow out: we had a discussion and people said clearly they disagree completely with this proposal.
So i think it couldn't really help the project trying to speculate using obsolete arguments: we have just to do what you want (freely) to do.
Yes, yo may disagree with my idea, but i'm not an imperor (i'm an ambassador like you), i've just prosed some (costructive) discussions and, as you have seen, a lot of people join those ones and take their position (and they won).
Another point. We don't want to make comparison between ambassadors, countries etc...: this isn't the right place and we know each person has different possibilities.
So, I hope you will think about those words.
We haven't fire anybody, we don't want to give a prize for the most active ambassadors' Country but we want people who are not angried, unsatisfied or just disappointed.
Best regards
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Robert 'Bob' Jensen marketing-list@fedoralinks.org A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Lun 29 Ott 2007 18:25 Oggetto: Re: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Fabian Affolter wrote:
Hi all,
It's a long time ago...exactly during the presentation during the FAD
at
Berlin I showed a slide (Page 7) [1]. This slide contains an
overview
of some weekly meetings. After a short discussion about why are
there
always a lot of European ambassadors at both time (FYI 22:00 UTC is
midnight in western europe). Someone suggested to split the
meetings.
An European meeting at a pleasant moment...but now we can't split due
to
lack of attendance.
Since LinuxTag there were 18 meetings. 14 were canceled!
Do we still need weekly meetings? Is it an overkill? Is it just a
waste of time? Today for me it was just wasting time. Three people
showed up.
Are the reasons...
- I don't care what the other ambassadors do.
- We have nothing to discuss. I don't know what to tell.
- South America is far away, I'm not interested in stuff from there.
- I have other stuff to do and can't take 30 min off.
- I live in the wrong time zone.
I guess that there is no more any need for exchanging information
between the ambassadors about events and how stuff can be done
because
everybody have enough experience to handle it.
On the Join page [2] of the Ambassadors Project...
Step 1. Participate in weekly meetings
Perhaps it would be a good idea to remove that step. No meeting, no
possibility for a participation...FAMSco, this could be a topic for
your
next meeting. For your half-yearly meeting ;-)
Just my thoughts...
Regards,
Fabian
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Personally I quit giving a crap about the ambassadors project and meetings when there was talk about throwing people out, creating a good ole boys club. As it appears this happened anyhow, only people were not thrown out they were just alienated. There are no events in my area of the US and quite honestly I do not have the resources to create one or travel more than an hour by car to get to one. The heavy activity of European Ambassadors does not help many of us in the US and perhaps other parts of the world because of cultural differences. It seams that the EU Ambassadors have no trouble traveling and taking time off of work to do something for the project, I on the other hand have a family to feed and a business to take care of.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Email gratis per tutti su AOL! Scopri tutti i servizi gratuiti di AOL su AOL.it.
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
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________________________________________________________________________ Email gratis per tutti su AOL! Scopri tutti i servizi gratuiti di AOL su AOL.it.
Hi!
Are there similar projects like the Fedora Ambassadors in other distributions? (OpenSuse, Ubuntu...) How do they handle the communication? Maybe we should take a look how things are done there!
Greetings, Claus
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 11:46 -0400, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
First of all i never proposed to fire people (i hope someone has understood this thing) and it wouldn't a proposal but a topic to start a serious discussion over the future of the project. I don't know where you have read the word "fire", "trown out" etc.... but as you know i want to help people not to create problems and frustrations or to force people doing something: I never thought to remove people from the project.
And, please, stop this past (closed) discussion (see the Thomas Chung's Message to M-L for more information).
I am happy to do so!
I think the IRC weekly meetings are one of the place you can communicate with Ambassadors, but there are a lot of other tools like M-L and Ambassadors' EMAIL (in many ambassadors' wikis).
As happened for the last Italian Linux Day many contributors, that weren't ambassadors, ask me for CDs. DVDs and similar stuffs, and personally i've tried to complete all the request.
I f you need help you may contact one of you country's ambassador asking him to help you not only asking him materials but what you want. At the end we are here to do those things.
Hoping i've answered (completely) to your questions and staying avaiable for any other ones
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Claus Reheis polytropolis@gmail.com A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Mar 30 Ott 2007 14:21 Oggetto: Re: R: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Dear Francesco Ugolini!
In the year 2006 was a small Linux Day in Tirol/Austria! Because I am am big fan of the Fedora distribution and the lack of any Fedora presence on that event, I thought about doing some advertisement for the Fedora Project! There was no way to get some nice Fedora stuff, without joining the Fedora Ambassador Project! So I did that and I do not regret it.
But the meetings are at times, very hard for me to attend! I work in a hotel and at (14:00 UTC) 16:00 I have to work all the time. Sure I have a day off, but that day changes every season. The meetings at (22:00 UTC) 0:00 are very late, especially when you have to get up early...
I am sure there are also other people in my situation! We have our lives, our obligations, our work and our families! So why do we not think about a way to communicate where people can attend when and if they want? A Ambassador forum where we communicate via threads independent from time,location and situation!
If there are IRC meetings every month, and the meetings are hold on times I can attend, I will attend.
And your proposal in the past to fire people from the Ambassador project, is imho just unconscionable.
There are people like me, not involved in IT, wo have to work for their life, their family, attend their friends and little rest of the time to their hobbies!Maybe one of this hobby is Linux/Fedora. So if they advertise Fedora to everyone who is interested in Linux, talk about it and even go to local events and represent the Fedora Project, imho that is enought to be an ambassador!
I am one of this kind and if you wish to fire someone, start with me.
Claus Reheis
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 06:09 -0400, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
Nobody was trow out: we had a discussion and people said clearly they disagree completely with this proposal.
So i think it couldn't really help the project trying to speculate using obsolete arguments: we have just to do what you want (freely) to do.
Yes, yo may disagree with my idea, but i'm not an imperor (i'm an ambassador like you), i've just prosed some (costructive) discussions and, as you have seen, a lot of people join those ones and take their position (and they won).
Another point. We don't want to make comparison between ambassadors, countries etc...: this isn't the right place and we know each person has different possibilities.
So, I hope you will think about those words.
We haven't fire anybody, we don't want to give a prize for the most active ambassadors' Country but we want people who are not angried, unsatisfied or just disappointed.
Best regards
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Robert 'Bob' Jensen marketing-list@fedoralinks.org A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Lun 29 Ott 2007 18:25 Oggetto: Re: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Fabian Affolter wrote:
Hi all,
It's a long time ago...exactly during the presentation during the FAD
at
Berlin I showed a slide (Page 7) [1]. This slide contains an
overview
of some weekly meetings. After a short discussion about why are
there
always a lot of European ambassadors at both time (FYI 22:00 UTC is
midnight in western europe). Someone suggested to split the
meetings.
An European meeting at a pleasant moment...but now we can't split due
to
lack of attendance.
Since LinuxTag there were 18 meetings. 14 were canceled!
Do we still need weekly meetings? Is it an overkill? Is it just a
waste of time? Today for me it was just wasting time. Three people
showed up.
Are the reasons...
- I don't care what the other ambassadors do.
- We have nothing to discuss. I don't know what to tell.
- South America is far away, I'm not interested in stuff from there.
- I have other stuff to do and can't take 30 min off.
- I live in the wrong time zone.
I guess that there is no more any need for exchanging information
between the ambassadors about events and how stuff can be done
because
everybody have enough experience to handle it.
On the Join page [2] of the Ambassadors Project...
Step 1. Participate in weekly meetings
Perhaps it would be a good idea to remove that step. No meeting, no
possibility for a participation...FAMSco, this could be a topic for
your
next meeting. For your half-yearly meeting ;-)
Just my thoughts...
Regards,
Fabian
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Personally I quit giving a crap about the ambassadors project and meetings when there was talk about throwing people out, creating a good ole boys club. As it appears this happened anyhow, only people were not thrown out they were just alienated. There are no events in my area of the US and quite honestly I do not have the resources to create one or travel more than an hour by car to get to one. The heavy activity of European Ambassadors does not help many of us in the US and perhaps other parts of the world because of cultural differences. It seams that the EU Ambassadors have no trouble traveling and taking time off of work to do something for the project, I on the other hand have a family to feed and a business to take care of.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Email gratis per tutti su AOL! Scopri tutti i servizi gratuiti di AOL su AOL.it.
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Email gratis per tutti su AOL! Scopri tutti i servizi gratuiti di AOL su AOL.it.
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Actually only Fedora has its Ambassadoring project, yeah, the other ones use to roganize events etc... without having a specific project.
As i know the following project use those systems:
- Ubuntu: there is an internet form where everybody can ask for CDs (for events more than 1)
- Gnome: there is (only for Gnome contributors) a box that you can request for a specific event and then give them back.
Generally people send email to pojects' leaders, local contributors etc...
This is what I know about the other project, probably someone in the list will know more solutions.
Regards
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Claus Reheis polytropolis@gmail.com A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Mar 30 Ott 2007 18:03 Oggetto: Re: R: R: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Hi!
Are there similar projects like the Fedora Ambassadors in other distributions? (OpenSuse, Ubuntu...) How do they handle the communication? Maybe we should take a look how things are done there!
Greetings, Claus
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 11:46 -0400, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
First of all i never proposed to fire people (i hope someone has understood this thing) and it wouldn't a proposal but a topic to start a serious discussion over the future of the project. I don't know where you have read the word "fire", "trown out" etc.... but as you know i want to help people not to create problems and frustrations or to force people doing something: I never thought to remove people from the project.
And, please, stop this past (closed) discussion (see the Thomas Chung's Message to M-L for more information).
I am happy to do so!
I think the IRC weekly meetings are one of the place you can communicate with Ambassadors, but there are a lot of other tools like M-L and Ambassadors' EMAIL (in many ambassadors' wikis).
As happened for the last Italian Linux Day many contributors, that weren't ambassadors, ask me for CDs. DVDs and similar stuffs, and personally i've tried to complete all the request.
I f you need help you may contact one of you country's ambassador asking him to help you not only asking him materials but what you want. At the end we are here to do those things.
Hoping i've answered (completely) to your questions and staying avaiable for any other ones
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Claus Reheis polytropolis@gmail.com A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Mar 30 Ott 2007 14:21 Oggetto: Re: R: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Dear Francesco Ugolini!
In the year 2006 was a small Linux Day in Tirol/Austria! Because I am am big fan of the Fedora distribution and the lack of any Fedora presence on that event, I thought about doing some advertisement for the Fedora Project! There was no way to get some nice Fedora stuff, without joining the Fedora Ambassador Project! So I did that and I do not regret it.
But the meetings are at times, very hard for me to attend! I work in a hotel and at (14:00 UTC) 16:00 I have to work all the time. Sure I have a day off, but that day changes every season. The meetings at (22:00 UTC) 0:00 are very late, especially when you have to get up early...
I am sure there are also other people in my situation! We have our lives, our obligations, our work and our families! So why do we not think about a way to communicate where people can attend when and if they want? A Ambassador forum where we communicate via threads independent from time,location and situation!
If there are IRC meetings every month, and the meetings are hold on times I can attend, I will attend.
And your proposal in the past to fire people from the Ambassador project, is imho just unconscionable.
There are people like me, not involved in IT, wo have to work for their life, their family, attend their friends and little rest of the time to their hobbies!Maybe one of this hobby is Linux/Fedora. So if they advertise Fedora to everyone who is interested in Linux, talk about it and even go to local events and represent the Fedora Project, imho that is enought to be an ambassador!
I am one of this kind and if you wish to fire someone, start with me.
Claus Reheis
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 06:09 -0400, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
Nobody was trow out: we had a discussion and people said clearly they disagree completely with this proposal.
So i think it couldn't really help the project trying to speculate using obsolete arguments: we have just to do what you want (freely) to do.
Yes, yo may disagree with my idea, but i'm not an imperor (i'm an ambassador like you), i've just prosed some (costructive) discussions and, as you have seen, a lot of people join those ones and take their position (and they won).
Another point. We don't want to make comparison between ambassadors, countries etc...: this isn't the right place and we know each person has different possibilities.
So, I hope you will think about those words.
We haven't fire anybody, we don't want to give a prize for the most active ambassadors' Country but we want people who are not angried, unsatisfied or just disappointed.
Best regards
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Robert 'Bob' Jensen marketing-list@fedoralinks.org A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Lun 29 Ott 2007 18:25 Oggetto: Re: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Fabian Affolter wrote:
Hi all,
It's a long time ago...exactly during the presentation during the FAD
at
Berlin I showed a slide (Page 7) [1]. This slide contains an
overview
of some weekly meetings. After a short discussion about why are
there
always a lot of European ambassadors at both time (FYI 22:00 UTC is
midnight in western europe). Someone suggested to split the
meetings.
An European meeting at a pleasant moment...but now we can't split due
to
lack of attendance.
Since LinuxTag there were 18 meetings. 14 were canceled!
Do we still need weekly meetings? Is it an overkill? Is it just a
waste of time? Today for me it was just wasting time. Three people
showed up.
Are the reasons...
- I don't care what the other ambassadors do.
- We have nothing to discuss. I don't know what to tell.
- South America is far away, I'm not interested in stuff from there.
- I have other stuff to do and can't take 30 min off.
- I live in the wrong time zone.
I guess that there is no more any need for exchanging information
between the ambassadors about events and how stuff can be done
because
everybody have enough experience to handle it.
On the Join page [2] of the Ambassadors Project...
Step 1. Participate in weekly meetings
Perhaps it would be a good idea to remove that step. No meeting, no
possibility for a participation...FAMSco, this could be a topic for
your
next meeting. For your half-yearly meeting ;-)
Just my thoughts...
Regards,
Fabian
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Personally I quit giving a crap about the ambassadors project and meetings when there was talk about throwing people out, creating a good ole boys club. As it appears this happened anyhow, only people were not thrown out they were just alienated. There are no events in my area of the US and quite honestly I do not have the resources to create one or travel more than an hour by car to get to one. The heavy activity of European Ambassadors does not help many of us in the US and perhaps other parts of the world because of cultural differences. It seams that the EU Ambassadors have no trouble traveling and taking time off of work to do something for the project, I on the other hand have a family to feed and a business to take care of.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Email gratis per tutti su AOL! Scopri tutti i servizi gratuiti di AOL su AOL.it.
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Email gratis per tutti su AOL! Scopri tutti i servizi gratuiti di AOL su AOL.it.
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________________________________________________________________________ Email gratis per tutti su AOL! Scopri tutti i servizi gratuiti di AOL su AOL.it.
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
Actually only Fedora has its Ambassadoring project, yeah, the other ones use to roganize events etc... without having a specific project.
- Ubuntu: there is an internet form where everybody can ask for CDs (for
events more than 1)
I don't think we'll ever have the budget to do that. It's a disadvantage for us, yes, but one we have to live with.
- Gnome: there is (only for Gnome contributors) a box that you can
request for a specific event and then give them back.
Now this is something I think we *should* be able to do.
--g
Hi!
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 13:27 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
Actually only Fedora has its Ambassadoring project, yeah, the other ones use to roganize events etc... without having a specific project.
- Ubuntu: there is an internet form where everybody can ask for CDs (for
events more than 1)
I don't think we'll ever have the budget to do that. It's a disadvantage for us, yes, but one we have to live with.
Understandable!
- Gnome: there is (only for Gnome contributors) a box that you can
request for a specific event and then give them back.
Now this is something I think we *should* be able to do.
What kind of equipment do I need to produce nice Fedora DVDs? Is GNU/Linux able to work with LightScribe technology?
--g
-- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" -- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Claus
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 18:45 +0100, Claus Reheis wrote:
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 13:27 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
Now this is something I think we *should* be able to do.
What kind of equipment do I need to produce nice Fedora DVDs?
Hmm. What does the "event box" have to do with producing nice Fedora DVDs? The event box is thought to provide all the necessary equipment for a typical event, e.g. a TFT, laptops or mini computers, maybe a mini beamer, some collateral, some ...
Is GNU/Linux able to work with LightScribe technology?
http://www.lightscribe.com will let you download an RPM.
Cheers, Matthias
Hi! On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 08:52 +0100, Matthias Kranz wrote:
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 18:45 +0100, Claus Reheis wrote:
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 13:27 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
Now this is something I think we *should* be able to do.
What kind of equipment do I need to produce nice Fedora DVDs?
Hmm. What does the "event box" have to do with producing nice Fedora DVDs? The event box is thought to provide all the necessary equipment for a typical event, e.g. a TFT, laptops or mini computers, maybe a mini beamer, some collateral, some ...
Ah, I did not know the term "event box"! Thanks for the explanation!
Is GNU/Linux able to work with LightScribe technology?
http://www.lightscribe.com will let you download an RPM.
Cheers, Matthias
Claus
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 13:27 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
- Ubuntu: there is an internet form where everybody can ask for CDs (for
events more than 1)
I don't think we'll ever have the budget to do that. It's a disadvantage for us, yes, but one we have to live with.
Hmm. Greg, in our Red Hat Cool Stuff Store in EMEA we offer the Fedora 7 DVDs for *external* customers for only 0,90€ which is roughly 1,25US$. I may tell you that it is far cheaper for internal people. So, basically, if we really wanted to, I am pretty sure that we could organize something ... even without corporate funding.
- Gnome: there is (only for Gnome contributors) a box that you can
request for a specific event and then give them back.
Now this is something I think we *should* be able to do.
This is something which I would really like to support! We probably would need one box for every interested region.
Matthias
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 13:27 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
- Ubuntu: there is an internet form where everybody can ask for CDs
(for
events more than 1)
I don't think we'll ever have the budget to do that. It's a disadvantage for us, yes, but one we have to live with.
Hmm. Greg, in our Red Hat Cool Stuff Store in EMEA we offer the Fedora 7 DVDs for *external* customers for only 0,90⬠which is roughly 1,25US$. I may tell you that it is far cheaper for internal people. So, basically, if we really wanted to, I am pretty sure that we could organize something ... even without corporate funding.
^^ It's a topic on the FAD EMEA November 2007, owned by Joerg Simon who will show and tell what we'll do in EMEA ... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADEMEA2007
- Gnome: there is (only for Gnome contributors) a box that you can
request for a specific event and then give them back.
Now this is something I think we *should* be able to do.
This is something which I would really like to support! We probably would need one box for every interested region.
^^ ... also a topic on the next FAD, owned by Fabian Affolter to present it to all ... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADEMEA2007
Matthias, can't you attend? Haven't you got the invitation? Let me know, I will also invite you (again) ...
regards
Gerold
On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 11:30 +0100, Gerold wrote:
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 13:27 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
I don't think we'll ever have the budget to do that. It's a disadvantage for us, yes, but one we have to live with.
Hmm. Greg, in our Red Hat Cool Stuff Store in EMEA we offer the Fedora 7 DVDs for *external* customers for only 0,90€ which is roughly 1,25US$. I may tell you that it is far cheaper for internal people. So, basically, if we really wanted to, I am pretty sure that we could organize something ... even without corporate funding.
^^ It's a topic on the FAD EMEA November 2007, owned by Joerg Simon who will show and tell what we'll do in EMEA ... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADEMEA2007
Hmm. Cannot see it there? I only see that you want to talk about a WebShop. This is not what Greg and I were talking about. It was about whether to provide a real free media program or not. And I used the Red Hat EMEA Cool Stuff Store offering as an example for how cheap it could be to produce and offer the DVDs.
Such a program could be funded by Red Hat (according to Greg this is not probable) or just by other willing parties.
Matthias
On 10/31/07, Matthias Kranz matthiaskranz@gmx.de wrote:
- Gnome: there is (only for Gnome contributors) a box that you can
request for a specific event and then give them back.
Now this is something I think we *should* be able to do.
This is something which I would really like to support! We probably would need one box for every interested region.
I started the following page quite some time ago:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/EventBox
It has a start to what should be in a box and people have added things to the page - including building a personal event box for individuals to use at events for themselves.
--Jeffrey
Thanks for the quick answer!
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 13:20 -0400, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
Actually only Fedora has its Ambassadoring project, yeah, the other ones use to roganize events etc... without having a specific project.
As i know the following project use those systems:
- Ubuntu: there is an internet form where everybody can ask for CDs
(for events more than 1)
- Gnome: there is (only for Gnome contributors) a box that you can
request for a specific event and then give them back.
Generally people send email to pojects' leaders, local contributors etc...
This is what I know about the other project, probably someone in the list will know more solutions.
Regards
Francesco Ugolini
There must be a way beside IRC and Mailing-lists where people can contribute their ideas and questions independent from time and location! In my opinion a forum style board would be something to think about! There I can just log in, look whats going on, see what is needed and contribute when I have time to do it!
Claus
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Claus Reheis polytropolis@gmail.com A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Mar 30 Ott 2007 18:03 Oggetto: Re: R: R: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Hi!
Are there similar projects like the Fedora Ambassadors in other distributions? (OpenSuse, Ubuntu...) How do they handle the communication? Maybe we should take a look how things are done there!
Greetings, Claus
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 11:46 -0400, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
First of all i never proposed to fire people (i hope someone has understood this thing) and it wouldn't a proposal but a topic to start a serious discussion over the future of the project. I don't know where you have read the word "fire", "trown out" etc.... but as you know i want to help people not to create problems and frustrations or to force people doing something: I never thought to remove people from the project.
And, please, stop this past (closed) discussion (see the Thomas Chung's Message to M-L for more information).
I am happy to do so!
I think the IRC weekly meetings are one of the place you can communicate with Ambassadors, but there are a lot of other tools like M-L and Ambassadors' EMAIL (in many ambassadors' wikis).
As happened for the last Italian Linux Day many contributors, that weren't ambassadors, ask me for CDs. DVDs and similar stuffs, and personally i've tried to complete all the request.
I f you need help you may contact one of you country's ambassador asking him to help you not only asking him materials but what you want. At the end we are here to do those things.
Hoping i've answered (completely) to your questions and staying avaiable for any other ones
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Claus Reheis polytropolis@gmail.com A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Mar 30 Ott 2007 14:21 Oggetto: Re: R: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Dear Francesco Ugolini!
In the year 2006 was a small Linux Day in Tirol/Austria! Because I am am big fan of the Fedora distribution and the lack of any Fedora presence on that event, I thought about doing some advertisement for the Fedora Project! There was no way to get some nice Fedora stuff, without joining the Fedora Ambassador Project! So I did that and I do not regret it.
But the meetings are at times, very hard for me to attend! I work in a hotel and at (14:00 UTC) 16:00 I have to work all the time. Sure I have a day off, but that day changes every season. The meetings at (22:00 UTC) 0:00 are very late, especially when you have to get up early...
I am sure there are also other people in my situation! We have our lives, our obligations, our work and our families! So why do we not think about a way to communicate where people can attend when and if they want? A Ambassador forum where we communicate via threads independent from time,location and situation!
If there are IRC meetings every month, and the meetings are hold on times I can attend, I will attend.
And your proposal in the past to fire people from the Ambassador project, is imho just unconscionable.
There are people like me, not involved in IT, wo have to work for their life, their family, attend their friends and little rest of the time to their hobbies!Maybe one of this hobby is Linux/Fedora. So if they advertise Fedora to everyone who is interested in Linux, talk about it and even go to local events and represent the Fedora Project, imho that is enought to be an ambassador!
I am one of this kind and if you wish to fire someone, start with me.
Claus Reheis
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 06:09 -0400, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
Nobody was trow out: we had a discussion and people said clearly they disagree completely with this proposal.
So i think it couldn't really help the project trying to speculate using obsolete arguments: we have just to do what you want (freely) to do.
Yes, yo may disagree with my idea, but i'm not an imperor (i'm an ambassador like you), i've just prosed some (costructive) discussions and, as you have seen, a lot of people join those ones and take their position (and they won).
Another point. We don't want to make comparison between ambassadors, countries etc...: this isn't the right place and we know each person has different possibilities.
So, I hope you will think about those words.
We haven't fire anybody, we don't want to give a prize for the most active ambassadors' Country but we want people who are not angried, unsatisfied or just disappointed.
Best regards
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Robert 'Bob' Jensen marketing-list@fedoralinks.org A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Lun 29 Ott 2007 18:25 Oggetto: Re: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Fabian Affolter wrote:
Hi all,
It's a long time ago...exactly during the presentation during the FAD
at
Berlin I showed a slide (Page 7) [1]. This slide contains an
overview
of some weekly meetings. After a short discussion about why are
there
always a lot of European ambassadors at both time (FYI 22:00 UTC is
midnight in western europe). Someone suggested to split the
meetings.
An European meeting at a pleasant moment...but now we can't split due
to
lack of attendance.
Since LinuxTag there were 18 meetings. 14 were canceled!
Do we still need weekly meetings? Is it an overkill? Is it just a
waste of time? Today for me it was just wasting time. Three people
showed up.
Are the reasons...
- I don't care what the other ambassadors do.
- We have nothing to discuss. I don't know what to tell.
- South America is far away, I'm not interested in stuff from there.
- I have other stuff to do and can't take 30 min off.
- I live in the wrong time zone.
I guess that there is no more any need for exchanging information
between the ambassadors about events and how stuff can be done
because
everybody have enough experience to handle it.
On the Join page [2] of the Ambassadors Project...
Step 1. Participate in weekly meetings
Perhaps it would be a good idea to remove that step. No meeting, no
possibility for a participation...FAMSco, this could be a topic for
your
next meeting. For your half-yearly meeting ;-)
Just my thoughts...
Regards,
Fabian
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Personally I quit giving a crap about the ambassadors project and meetings when there was talk about throwing people out, creating a good ole boys club. As it appears this happened anyhow, only people were not thrown out they were just alienated. There are no events in my area of the US and quite honestly I do not have the resources to create one or travel more than an hour by car to get to one. The heavy activity of European Ambassadors does not help many of us in the US and perhaps other parts of the world because of cultural differences. It seams that the EU Ambassadors have no trouble traveling and taking time off of work to do something for the project, I on the other hand have a family to feed and a business to take care of.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Hi all,
Back to the topic. After the discussions around the weekly Ambassadors Meeting [1] we are going to make a reorganization. This should improve the quality and the efficiency of the meetings. Now, I know that not everybody agrees that IRC Ambassadors Meetings are the right way. I like FADs much more than IRC meetings. But as long as the financial resources us not allow to hold every month a FAD somewhere on earth we have to do it online.
Most important changes
- - one meeting a month (I hope to start in December with a large attendance :-) ) - - we divide the world into three areas - North and South America - APAC and all other countries in this time zone - EMEA and all other countries in this time zone - - the meetings will be during the evening (local time) - - we are looking forward to have for every region a leader and a co-leader.
The points to discuss are the topics which you are interest in. There will be separate email about the talking points. Just as a little input.
It's up to YOU to make the Ambassadors Program as strong as it was in the beginning and give again more weight to it inside the Fedora Project. I know in the beginning everything was better and the ambassadors program was the heart of several other activities. But now it's the present, we are a large group (maybe the largest) and we should show this. I guess that nobody want to lose everything we have build up in the past due to lack of communication between all participants.
Regards,
Fabian
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Meetings
Claus Reheis wrote:
Thanks for the quick answer!
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 13:20 -0400, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
Actually only Fedora has its Ambassadoring project, yeah, the other ones use to roganize events etc... without having a specific project.
As i know the following project use those systems:
- Ubuntu: there is an internet form where everybody can ask for CDs
(for events more than 1)
- Gnome: there is (only for Gnome contributors) a box that you can
request for a specific event and then give them back.
Generally people send email to pojects' leaders, local contributors etc...
This is what I know about the other project, probably someone in the list will know more solutions.
Regards
Francesco Ugolini
There must be a way beside IRC and Mailing-lists where people can contribute their ideas and questions independent from time and location! In my opinion a forum style board would be something to think about! There I can just log in, look whats going on, see what is needed and contribute when I have time to do it!
I totally agree with you. I have never been able to catch up with folks here because of the my work schedules. By the time I see something interesting on the mailing list, the topic would old already. Joining the meetings on IRC is also quite difficult for me. Message boards is the way to go.
Claus
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Claus Reheis polytropolis@gmail.com A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Mar 30 Ott 2007 18:03 Oggetto: Re: R: R: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Hi!
Are there similar projects like the Fedora Ambassadors in other distributions? (OpenSuse, Ubuntu...) How do they handle the communication? Maybe we should take a look how things are done there!
Greetings, Claus
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 11:46 -0400, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
First of all i never proposed to fire people (i hope someone has understood this thing) and it wouldn't a proposal but a topic to start a serious discussion over the future of the project. I don't know where you have read the word "fire", "trown out" etc.... but as you know i want to help people not to create problems and frustrations or to force people doing something: I never thought to remove people from the project.
And, please, stop this past (closed) discussion (see the Thomas Chung's Message to M-L for more information).
I am happy to do so!
I think the IRC weekly meetings are one of the place you can communicate with Ambassadors, but there are a lot of other tools like M-L and Ambassadors' EMAIL (in many ambassadors' wikis).
As happened for the last Italian Linux Day many contributors, that weren't ambassadors, ask me for CDs. DVDs and similar stuffs, and personally i've tried to complete all the request.
I f you need help you may contact one of you country's ambassador asking him to help you not only asking him materials but what you want. At the end we are here to do those things.
Hoping i've answered (completely) to your questions and staying avaiable for any other ones
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Claus Reheis polytropolis@gmail.com A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Mar 30 Ott 2007 14:21 Oggetto: Re: R: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Dear Francesco Ugolini!
In the year 2006 was a small Linux Day in Tirol/Austria! Because I am am big fan of the Fedora distribution and the lack of any Fedora presence on that event, I thought about doing some advertisement for the Fedora Project! There was no way to get some nice Fedora stuff, without joining the Fedora Ambassador Project! So I did that and I do not regret it.
But the meetings are at times, very hard for me to attend! I work in a hotel and at (14:00 UTC) 16:00 I have to work all the time. Sure I have a day off, but that day changes every season. The meetings at (22:00 UTC) 0:00 are very late, especially when you have to get up early...
I am sure there are also other people in my situation! We have our lives, our obligations, our work and our families! So why do we not think about a way to communicate where people can attend when and if they want? A Ambassador forum where we communicate via threads independent from time,location and situation!
If there are IRC meetings every month, and the meetings are hold on times I can attend, I will attend.
And your proposal in the past to fire people from the Ambassador project, is imho just unconscionable.
There are people like me, not involved in IT, wo have to work for their life, their family, attend their friends and little rest of the time to their hobbies!Maybe one of this hobby is Linux/Fedora. So if they advertise Fedora to everyone who is interested in Linux, talk about it and even go to local events and represent the Fedora Project, imho that is enought to be an ambassador!
I am one of this kind and if you wish to fire someone, start with me.
Claus Reheis
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 06:09 -0400, francescougolini@aol.it wrote:
Nobody was trow out: we had a discussion and people said clearly they disagree completely with this proposal.
So i think it couldn't really help the project trying to speculate using obsolete arguments: we have just to do what you want (freely) to do.
Yes, yo may disagree with my idea, but i'm not an imperor (i'm an ambassador like you), i've just prosed some (costructive) discussions and, as you have seen, a lot of people join those ones and take their position (and they won).
Another point. We don't want to make comparison between ambassadors, countries etc...: this isn't the right place and we know each person has different possibilities.
So, I hope you will think about those words.
We haven't fire anybody, we don't want to give a prize for the most active ambassadors' Country but we want people who are not angried, unsatisfied or just disappointed.
Best regards
Francesco Ugolini
-----Messaggio originario----- Da: Robert 'Bob' Jensen marketing-list@fedoralinks.org A: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Inviati: Lun 29 Ott 2007 18:25 Oggetto: Re: [Ambassadors] The weekly ambassador meetings
Fabian Affolter wrote:
Hi all,
It's a long time ago...exactly during the presentation during the FAD
at
Berlin I showed a slide (Page 7) [1]. This slide contains an
overview
of some weekly meetings. After a short discussion about why are
there
always a lot of European ambassadors at both time (FYI 22:00 UTC is
midnight in western europe). Someone suggested to split the
meetings.
An European meeting at a pleasant moment...but now we can't split due
to
lack of attendance.
Since LinuxTag there were 18 meetings. 14 were canceled!
Do we still need weekly meetings? Is it an overkill? Is it just a
waste of time? Today for me it was just wasting time. Three people
showed up.
Are the reasons...
I don't care what the other ambassadors do.
We have nothing to discuss. I don't know what to tell.
South America is far away, I'm not interested in stuff from there.
I have other stuff to do and can't take 30 min off.
I live in the wrong time zone.
I guess that there is no more any need for exchanging information
between the ambassadors about events and how stuff can be done
because
everybody have enough experience to handle it.
On the Join page [2] of the Ambassadors Project...
Step 1. Participate in weekly meetings
Perhaps it would be a good idea to remove that step. No meeting, no
possibility for a participation...FAMSco, this could be a topic for
your
next meeting. For your half-yearly meeting ;-)
Just my thoughts...
Regards,
Fabian
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADLinuxTag2007
[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Join
--
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Personally I quit giving a crap about the ambassadors project and meetings when there was talk about throwing people out, creating a good ole boys club. As it appears this happened anyhow, only people were not thrown out they were just alienated. There are no events in my area of the US and quite honestly I do not have the resources to create one or travel more than an hour by car to get to one. The heavy activity of European Ambassadors does not help many of us in the US and perhaps other parts of the world because of cultural differences. It seams that the EU Ambassadors have no trouble traveling and taking time off of work to do something for the project, I on the other hand have a family to feed and a business to take care of.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
--
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tir, 30 10 2007 kl. 13:20 -0400, skrev francescougolini@aol.it:
Actually only Fedora has its Ambassadoring project, yeah, the other ones use to roganize events etc... without having a specific project.
As i know the following project use those systems:
- Ubuntu: there is an internet form where everybody can ask for CDs
(for events more than 1)
Ubuntu also has a strong set of local teams who do much of what the Fedora Ambassador project does with regards to advocacy, giving lectures and generally spread awareness.
- David
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
-
Benjamin Lewis -
Claus Reheis -
David Nalley -
David Nielsen -
Eduardo Villagrán Morales -
Fabian Affolter -
francescougolini＠aol.it -
Gerold -
Greg DeKoenigsberg -
Hisham Abdel-Magid -
Jeffrey Tadlock -
John Babich -
Matthias Kranz -
Robert 'Bob' Jensen -
Saadaldine AlSaidi -
subhodip biswas -
Sudheer -
Thomas Canniot -
Thomas Chung