11:11 p.m.
Hi all,
So I anticipated this somewhat, but was hoping the prices were a bit
closer to the CD media. It turns out the media company we chose for
replicating CDs gave us a great price:
Item Quantity Price per Disc
Total Price
x86 Live CDs 3000 $.576 $1728
These discs are in production and are slated to arrive on my doorstep
December 23. (A discussion of distribution has already been had, so
please don't address that here.)
Unfortunately, and it makes total sense, the DVD media requires more
components and such, so the pricing is a bit higher:
x86 Install DVDs 3000 $.785 $2355
x86_64 Install DVDs 3000 $.785 $2355
Which brings us to the dilemma. The budget we just finished at
yesterday's meeting indicates that we wanted two runs of DVDs at
$1800. Had I been thinking about it, the costs should have been
higher for DVDs over CDs, so I apologize for the at oversight.
However, the dilemma still remains, thus we have some options. I
discussed some of this with folks in IRC this evening and here are the
options I see possible.
Option 1: Produce Live CDs for x86_64 as well as a smaller run of x86
Install DVDs (approximately $1800 worth)
Option 2: Produce smaller amounts of the installer DVDs (both x86 and
x86_64), approximately 2300 could be produced at this price. The
price point might be higher, I've got an email into the media company
asking this exact question.
Option 3: Produce more Live CDs of x86_64 and then add Live CDs for
x86 (or respins if they are ready soon). This would ignore the
install DVDs totally, and isn't an unreasonable idea, but I'm not for
this one.
There are probably other options, combinations of these that I didn't
list because of time/space. If you think one of these are viable,
let's talk about them over the next couple days. I'd like to place
the order on Friday before 5pm EST.
Cheers,
Clint
11:21 p.m.
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Clint Savage <herlo1(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
So I anticipated this somewhat, but was hoping the prices were a bit
closer to the CD media. It turns out the media company we chose for
replicating CDs gave us a great price:
Item Quantity Price per Disc
Total Price
x86 Live CDs 3000 $.576 $1728
These discs are in production and are slated to arrive on my doorstep
December 23. (A discussion of distribution has already been had, so
please don't address that here.)
Unfortunately, and it makes total sense, the DVD media requires more
components and such, so the pricing is a bit higher:
x86 Install DVDs 3000 $.785 $2355
x86_64 Install DVDs 3000 $.785 $2355
Which brings us to the dilemma. The budget we just finished at
yesterday's meeting indicates that we wanted two runs of DVDs at
$1800. Had I been thinking about it, the costs should have been
higher for DVDs over CDs, so I apologize for the at oversight.
However, the dilemma still remains, thus we have some options. I
discussed some of this with folks in IRC this evening and here are the
options I see possible.
Option 1: Produce Live CDs for x86_64 as well as a smaller run of x86
Install DVDs (approximately $1800 worth)
Option 2: Produce smaller amounts of the installer DVDs (both x86 and
x86_64), approximately 2300 could be produced at this price. The
price point might be higher, I've got an email into the media company
asking this exact question.
Option 3: Produce more Live CDs of x86_64 and then add Live CDs for
x86 (or respins if they are ready soon). This would ignore the
install DVDs totally, and isn't an unreasonable idea, but I'm not for
this one.
There are probably other options, combinations of these that I didn't
list because of time/space. If you think one of these are viable,
let's talk about them over the next couple days. I'd like to place
the order on Friday before 5pm EST.
Cheers,
Clint
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Clint,
My opinion is Option 2: Produce smaller amounts of the installer DVDs
(both x86 and
x86_64),
In my experience I have more people asking for install DVD's than I do
live's, so I would sooner go with a smaller run of live's than I would
install DVD's.
Just my 2 cents.
--
Regards,
Brian Powell
http://fedoraproject.org
http://wnylug.org
3:57 a.m.
On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 22:11 -0700, Clint Savage wrote:
Hi all,
So I anticipated this somewhat, but was hoping the prices were a bit
closer to the CD media. It turns out the media company we chose for
replicating CDs gave us a great price:
Item Quantity Price per Disc
Total Price
x86 Live CDs 3000 $.576 $1728
These discs are in production and are slated to arrive on my doorstep
December 23. (A discussion of distribution has already been had, so
please don't address that here.)
Unfortunately, and it makes total sense, the DVD media requires more
components and such, so the pricing is a bit higher:
x86 Install DVDs 3000 $.785 $2355
x86_64 Install DVDs 3000 $.785 $2355
Which brings us to the dilemma. The budget we just finished at
yesterday's meeting indicates that we wanted two runs of DVDs at
$1800. Had I been thinking about it, the costs should have been
higher for DVDs over CDs, so I apologize for the at oversight.
However, the dilemma still remains, thus we have some options. I
discussed some of this with folks in IRC this evening and here are the
options I see possible.
Option 1: Produce Live CDs for x86_64 as well as a smaller run of x86
Install DVDs (approximately $1800 worth)
Option 2: Produce smaller amounts of the installer DVDs (both x86 and
x86_64), approximately 2300 could be produced at this price. The
price point might be higher, I've got an email into the media company
asking this exact question.
Option 3: Produce more Live CDs of x86_64 and then add Live CDs for
x86 (or respins if they are ready soon). This would ignore the
install DVDs totally, and isn't an unreasonable idea, but I'm not for
this one.
There are probably other options, combinations of these that I didn't
list because of time/space. If you think one of these are viable,
let's talk about them over the next couple days. I'd like to place
the order on Friday before 5pm EST.
Cheers,
Clint
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Great prices indeed.
I would go for Option 1, as during our events (EMEA events) many asked
for a Live 64bit and the use of DVD-32bit is declining... The live CDs
must not be less in quantity. Nevertheless my opinion is that we should
as a project the use of x86_64 over the years little by little. This
could be done by just producing more x86_64 that x86.
~π
--
--------------------------
Pierros Papadeas
PGP key: 0x6130DBF8
<ppapadeas(a)gmail.com>
liknus @ GRnet , Freenode
5:58 a.m.
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Clint Savage <herlo1(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
So I anticipated this somewhat, but was hoping the prices were a bit
closer to the CD media. It turns out the media company we chose for
replicating CDs gave us a great price:
Item Quantity Price per Disc
Total Price
x86 Live CDs 3000 $.576 $1728
These discs are in production and are slated to arrive on my doorstep
December 23. (A discussion of distribution has already been had, so
please don't address that here.)
Unfortunately, and it makes total sense, the DVD media requires more
components and such, so the pricing is a bit higher:
x86 Install DVDs 3000 $.785 $2355
x86_64 Install DVDs 3000 $.785 $2355
Which brings us to the dilemma. The budget we just finished at
yesterday's meeting indicates that we wanted two runs of DVDs at
$1800. Had I been thinking about it, the costs should have been
higher for DVDs over CDs, so I apologize for the at oversight.
However, the dilemma still remains, thus we have some options. I
discussed some of this with folks in IRC this evening and here are the
options I see possible.
Option 1: Produce Live CDs for x86_64 as well as a smaller run of x86
Install DVDs (approximately $1800 worth)
Option 2: Produce smaller amounts of the installer DVDs (both x86 and
x86_64), approximately 2300 could be produced at this price. The
price point might be higher, I've got an email into the media company
asking this exact question.
Option 3: Produce more Live CDs of x86_64 and then add Live CDs for
x86 (or respins if they are ready soon). This would ignore the
install DVDs totally, and isn't an unreasonable idea, but I'm not for
this one.
There are probably other options, combinations of these that I didn't
list because of time/space. If you think one of these are viable,
let's talk about them over the next couple days. I'd like to place
the order on Friday before 5pm EST.
Cheers,
Clint
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
I am somewhat disappointed in timing of stuff in production. Given
that we handed over an ISO ~20th of November this means their time to
produce is going to be in excess of a month. In addition the date
keeps slipping. That said - I am not in favor of us ordering again
before we have the CDs in hand, esp. given their continued schedule
slips. Perhaps we can use that as leverage to get media sooner. Since
we have an additional 5 days I'd argue we should put the DVD order out
for bid, if for no other reason than to have pricing leverage and
other options should we not like the product. We already know we don't
like their timing.
What were their terms on delivery guarantee? (I thought it was 10 days
after we provided an ISO) Part of the reason that this is such a
concern from my perspective is that we a really short window - 6
months - that media is really able to be used. 23rd puts us almost 1
month past release. Another month waiting on DVDs (or 2 months given
that it's two different ISOs) puts us 1/3 or 1/2 way through the
cycle, which IMO is untenable. Perhaps we need to evaluate using some
of the 3600 money for on-demand delivery from Karlie and use the
balance for ordering what can be delivered.
That said - if we can work out the scheduling problems, option 2 seems
more realistic.
8:43 a.m.
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 4:58 AM, David Nalley <david(a)gnsa.us> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Clint Savage
<herlo1(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> So I anticipated this somewhat, but was hoping the prices were a bit
> closer to the CD media. It turns out the media company we chose for
> replicating CDs gave us a great price:
>
> Item Quantity Price per Disc
> Total Price
>
> x86 Live CDs 3000 $.576 $1728
>
> These discs are in production and are slated to arrive on my doorstep
> December 23. (A discussion of distribution has already been had, so
> please don't address that here.)
>
> Unfortunately, and it makes total sense, the DVD media requires more
> components and such, so the pricing is a bit higher:
>
> x86 Install DVDs 3000 $.785 $2355
> x86_64 Install DVDs 3000 $.785 $2355
>
> Which brings us to the dilemma. The budget we just finished at
> yesterday's meeting indicates that we wanted two runs of DVDs at
> $1800. Had I been thinking about it, the costs should have been
> higher for DVDs over CDs, so I apologize for the at oversight.
> However, the dilemma still remains, thus we have some options. I
> discussed some of this with folks in IRC this evening and here are the
> options I see possible.
>
> Option 1: Produce Live CDs for x86_64 as well as a smaller run of x86
> Install DVDs (approximately $1800 worth)
> Option 2: Produce smaller amounts of the installer DVDs (both x86 and
> x86_64), approximately 2300 could be produced at this price. The
> price point might be higher, I've got an email into the media company
> asking this exact question.
> Option 3: Produce more Live CDs of x86_64 and then add Live CDs for
> x86 (or respins if they are ready soon). This would ignore the
> install DVDs totally, and isn't an unreasonable idea, but I'm not for
> this one.
>
> There are probably other options, combinations of these that I didn't
> list because of time/space. If you think one of these are viable,
> let's talk about them over the next couple days. I'd like to place
> the order on Friday before 5pm EST.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Clint
>
> --
> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>
I am somewhat disappointed in timing of stuff in production. Given
that we handed over an ISO ~20th of November this means their time to
produce is going to be in excess of a month. In addition the date
keeps slipping. That said - I am not in favor of us ordering again
before we have the CDs in hand, esp. given their continued schedule
slips. Perhaps we can use that as leverage to get media sooner. Since
we have an additional 5 days I'd argue we should put the DVD order out
for bid, if for no other reason than to have pricing leverage and
other options should we not like the product. We already know we don't
like their timing.
What were their terms on delivery guarantee? (I thought it was 10 days
after we provided an ISO) Part of the reason that this is such a
concern from my perspective is that we a really short window - 6
months - that media is really able to be used. 23rd puts us almost 1
month past release. Another month waiting on DVDs (or 2 months given
that it's two different ISOs) puts us 1/3 or 1/2 way through the
cycle, which IMO is untenable. Perhaps we need to evaluate using some
of the 3600 money for on-demand delivery from Karlie and use the
balance for ordering what can be delivered.
I guess some of this is my fault, and so I'll take the blame there. I
think we're in a learning process here with the media. I don't feel
one month out is all that bad, mainly because there are two, maybe
three holidays in the way. There were lots of discussions and
adjustments to the schedule due to unforeseen issues. For instance,
the Art approval wasn't until Dec 10, which really only puts them 3
days behind schedule. It took me a couple extra days to get the art
to them, after Thanksgiving if I remember correctly.
That said - if we can work out the scheduling problems, option 2 seems
more realistic.
I am not trying to defend them, but the price also may have something
to do with the timing. Originally, we told them, they would have 3+
weeks to produce media. We hinted at the fact that it wasn't a rush,
which I think got us the better price. So to me, while they are
behind schedule, it isn't as great as you say. I'll make sure to get
a time commitment out of them this time so there is no confusion, but
I suspect they'll be able to make a January 7 deadline so that I can
bring them to FUDCon. :)
Cheers,
Clint
8:49 a.m.
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Clint Savage <herlo1(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 4:58 AM, David Nalley <david(a)gnsa.us>
wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Clint Savage <herlo1(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> So I anticipated this somewhat, but was hoping the prices were a bit
>> closer to the CD media. It turns out the media company we chose for
>> replicating CDs gave us a great price:
>>
>> Item Quantity Price per Disc
>> Total Price
>>
>> x86 Live CDs 3000 $.576 $1728
>>
>> These discs are in production and are slated to arrive on my doorstep
>> December 23. (A discussion of distribution has already been had, so
>> please don't address that here.)
>>
>> Unfortunately, and it makes total sense, the DVD media requires more
>> components and such, so the pricing is a bit higher:
>>
>> x86 Install DVDs 3000 $.785 $2355
>> x86_64 Install DVDs 3000 $.785 $2355
>>
>> Which brings us to the dilemma. The budget we just finished at
>> yesterday's meeting indicates that we wanted two runs of DVDs at
>> $1800. Had I been thinking about it, the costs should have been
>> higher for DVDs over CDs, so I apologize for the at oversight.
>> However, the dilemma still remains, thus we have some options. I
>> discussed some of this with folks in IRC this evening and here are the
>> options I see possible.
>>
>> Option 1: Produce Live CDs for x86_64 as well as a smaller run of x86
>> Install DVDs (approximately $1800 worth)
>> Option 2: Produce smaller amounts of the installer DVDs (both x86 and
>> x86_64), approximately 2300 could be produced at this price. The
>> price point might be higher, I've got an email into the media company
>> asking this exact question.
>> Option 3: Produce more Live CDs of x86_64 and then add Live CDs for
>> x86 (or respins if they are ready soon). This would ignore the
>> install DVDs totally, and isn't an unreasonable idea, but I'm not for
>> this one.
>>
>> There are probably other options, combinations of these that I didn't
>> list because of time/space. If you think one of these are viable,
>> let's talk about them over the next couple days. I'd like to place
>> the order on Friday before 5pm EST.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Clint
>>
>> --
>> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
>> Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>>
>
> I am somewhat disappointed in timing of stuff in production. Given
> that we handed over an ISO ~20th of November this means their time to
> produce is going to be in excess of a month. In addition the date
> keeps slipping. That said - I am not in favor of us ordering again
> before we have the CDs in hand, esp. given their continued schedule
> slips. Perhaps we can use that as leverage to get media sooner. Since
> we have an additional 5 days I'd argue we should put the DVD order out
> for bid, if for no other reason than to have pricing leverage and
> other options should we not like the product. We already know we don't
> like their timing.
> What were their terms on delivery guarantee? (I thought it was 10 days
> after we provided an ISO) Part of the reason that this is such a
> concern from my perspective is that we a really short window - 6
> months - that media is really able to be used. 23rd puts us almost 1
> month past release. Another month waiting on DVDs (or 2 months given
> that it's two different ISOs) puts us 1/3 or 1/2 way through the
> cycle, which IMO is untenable. Perhaps we need to evaluate using some
> of the 3600 money for on-demand delivery from Karlie and use the
> balance for ordering what can be delivered.
I guess some of this is my fault, and so I'll take the blame there. I
think we're in a learning process here with the media. I don't feel
one month out is all that bad, mainly because there are two, maybe
three holidays in the way. There were lots of discussions and
adjustments to the schedule due to unforeseen issues. For instance,
the Art approval wasn't until Dec 10, which really only puts them 3
days behind schedule. It took me a couple extra days to get the art
to them, after Thanksgiving if I remember correctly.
That makes me feel a bit better. No need to shoulder blame. That said
you are right about a learning experience - we should start
documenting timelines and when things need to be done. Such as getting
artwork sent and approved long before release (and before they have
the iso)
5607
days inactive
5607
days old
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
5 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Brian Powell -
Clint Savage -
David Nalley -
Pierros Papadeas