1:04 a.m.
Should we have an Ambassadors Certification Examination?
I enjoyed working the fedora table at LinuxFest NorthWest. Because I am familiar with
many of the packages available in fedora I was able to point out special applications that
would meet user's needs. When a user asked about ATI graphics issues I replied I
couldn't answer. But when a user carrying an imac (comparing it to colorful OLPCs)
asked if we had a powerPC version, I answered incorrectly, saying no.
It would be useful to have a quiz or list of frequent and infrequent questions so that we
could be better ambassadors. I don't think the quiz should be mandatory for being an
ambassador, just using the subject line to create a dialog.
Thanks,
Jeff Sandys
1:28 a.m.
Am Mittwoch, den 28.04.2010, 23:04 -0700 schrieb Jeff Sandys:
But when a user carrying an imac (comparing it to colorful OLPCs)
asked if we had a powerPC version, I answered incorrectly, saying no.
http://download.fedpraproject.org/pub/linux/fedora/linux/releases/12/Fedo...
You just failed your exam. ;)
This why I don't like the idea of certifying ambassadors. Of course we
agree that the ambassadors should a have a certain amount of knowledge
about Fedora, but as you see in this example, there is no consensus
about what is important for each and every ambassador. Many of them are
involved in other groups of Fedora too, but one is into translations,
the other more into packaging and the third into design. It is up to the
ambassadors mentor to judge is someone is ready to be an ambassador yet
and to educate them.
Regards,
Christoph
2:01 a.m.
Am Donnerstag, 29. April 2010 08:28:15 schrieb Christoph Wickert:
It is up to the
ambassadors mentor to judge is someone is ready to be an ambassador yet
+1
and to educate them.
or help them to educate themselves
cu Joerg
--
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
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3:15 a.m.
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 08:28, Christoph Wickert
<christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
Am Mittwoch, den 28.04.2010, 23:04 -0700 schrieb Jeff Sandys:
> But when a user carrying an imac (comparing it to colorful OLPCs)
> asked if we had a powerPC version, I answered incorrectly, saying no.
http://download.fedpraproject.org/pub/linux/fedora/linux/releases/12/Fedo...
You just failed your exam. ;)
This why I don't like the idea of certifying ambassadors. Of course we
agree that the ambassadors should a have a certain amount of knowledge
about Fedora, but as you see in this example, there is no consensus
about what is important for each and every ambassador. Many of them are
involved in other groups of Fedora too, but one is into translations,
the other more into packaging and the third into design. It is up to the
ambassadors mentor to judge is someone is ready to be an ambassador yet
and to educate them.
As a young mentor, allow me to chime in.
Do people think the role of a mentor is to not validate a candidate
ambassador until he has sufficient knowledge, using some kind of
certification mechanism? Or should the mentor rather establish the
base of a never-ending journey towards getting that knowledge, while
making sure the candidate is mature enough to either ask for help from
another ambassador or ask for some more time to answer?
I'm certainly in favor of the second possibility, but I've only
mentored 4 people until now, so I'm most certainly doing it wrong. ;)
As Christoph said, different ambassadors are involved in different
groups, and thus will have different knowledge. To me, that's a reason
for having more than one ambassador on a given event, so each one can
answer questions related to his field of expertise.
Finally, when I'm not sure of an answer, I like to ask for the
person's contact, so that I can later ask someone who does know,
acquire that knowledge for myself and then write to the person who
asked me the question in the first place, providing him a proper
answer.
Wouldn't that address your concerns Jeff? Or should we launch a huge
validation campaign after which only 5 ambassadors will remain? (and
I'll probably not be one of them)
Of course, nothing (and no one) prevents you from writing a FAQ if you
believe that's appropriate, but I fear it will quickly turn into a
summary page for all of the Fedora Project wiki. :)
----------
Mathieu Bridon
8:57 a.m.
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 4:15 AM, Mathieu Bridon
<bochecha(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 08:28, Christoph Wickert
<christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, den 28.04.2010, 23:04 -0700 schrieb Jeff Sandys:
>
>> But when a user carrying an imac (comparing it to colorful OLPCs)
>> asked if we had a powerPC version, I answered incorrectly, saying no.
>
> http://download.fedpraproject.org/pub/linux/fedora/linux/releases/12/Fedo...
> You just failed your exam. ;)
>
> This why I don't like the idea of certifying ambassadors. Of course we
> agree that the ambassadors should a have a certain amount of knowledge
> about Fedora, but as you see in this example, there is no consensus
> about what is important for each and every ambassador. Many of them are
> involved in other groups of Fedora too, but one is into translations,
> the other more into packaging and the third into design. It is up to the
> ambassadors mentor to judge is someone is ready to be an ambassador yet
> and to educate them.
As a young mentor, allow me to chime in.
Do people think the role of a mentor is to not validate a candidate
ambassador until he has sufficient knowledge, using some kind of
certification mechanism? Or should the mentor rather establish the
base of a never-ending journey towards getting that knowledge, while
making sure the candidate is mature enough to either ask for help from
another ambassador or ask for some more time to answer?
I'm certainly in favor of the second possibility, but I've only
mentored 4 people until now, so I'm most certainly doing it wrong. ;)
As Christoph said, different ambassadors are involved in different
groups, and thus will have different knowledge. To me, that's a reason
for having more than one ambassador on a given event, so each one can
answer questions related to his field of expertise.
Finally, when I'm not sure of an answer, I like to ask for the
person's contact, so that I can later ask someone who does know,
acquire that knowledge for myself and then write to the person who
asked me the question in the first place, providing him a proper
answer.
Wouldn't that address your concerns Jeff? Or should we launch a huge
validation campaign after which only 5 ambassadors will remain? (and
I'll probably not be one of them)
Of course, nothing (and no one) prevents you from writing a FAQ if you
believe that's appropriate, but I fear it will quickly turn into a
summary page for all of the Fedora Project wiki. :)
There is no one who does or can know everything about the Fedora
Project, so I certainly don't think your goal as a mentor is to ensure
that that someone know $incredibleamounr about Fedora. You of course
want to make sure they at least know a bit about Fedora, and more
importantly how to find answers. A number of people refer to this as
"productively lost"
The bigger question though (and one that would, in my mind, satisfy
the above points) is: Are you satisfied that the person your are
mentoring is capable of representing Fedora appropriately? It's
completely subjective, but a lot of trust is placed in the hands of
mentors, much as it is with packaging sponsors.
9:52 a.m.
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 09:57:17AM -0400, David Nalley wrote:
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 4:15 AM, Mathieu Bridon
<bochecha(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 08:28, Christoph Wickert
> <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Am Mittwoch, den 28.04.2010, 23:04 -0700 schrieb Jeff Sandys:
>>
>>> But when a user carrying an imac (comparing it to colorful OLPCs)
>>> asked if we had a powerPC version, I answered incorrectly, saying no.
>>
>>
http://download.fedpraproject.org/pub/linux/fedora/linux/releases/12/Fedo...
>> You just failed your exam. ;)
>>
>> This why I don't like the idea of certifying ambassadors. Of course we
>> agree that the ambassadors should a have a certain amount of knowledge
>> about Fedora, but as you see in this example, there is no consensus
>> about what is important for each and every ambassador. Many of them are
>> involved in other groups of Fedora too, but one is into translations,
>> the other more into packaging and the third into design. It is up to the
>> ambassadors mentor to judge is someone is ready to be an ambassador yet
>> and to educate them.
>
> As a young mentor, allow me to chime in.
>
> Do people think the role of a mentor is to not validate a candidate
> ambassador until he has sufficient knowledge, using some kind of
> certification mechanism? Or should the mentor rather establish the
> base of a never-ending journey towards getting that knowledge, while
> making sure the candidate is mature enough to either ask for help from
> another ambassador or ask for some more time to answer?
>
> I'm certainly in favor of the second possibility, but I've only
> mentored 4 people until now, so I'm most certainly doing it wrong. ;)
>
> As Christoph said, different ambassadors are involved in different
> groups, and thus will have different knowledge. To me, that's a reason
> for having more than one ambassador on a given event, so each one can
> answer questions related to his field of expertise.
>
> Finally, when I'm not sure of an answer, I like to ask for the
> person's contact, so that I can later ask someone who does know,
> acquire that knowledge for myself and then write to the person who
> asked me the question in the first place, providing him a proper
> answer.
>
> Wouldn't that address your concerns Jeff? Or should we launch a huge
> validation campaign after which only 5 ambassadors will remain? (and
> I'll probably not be one of them)
>
> Of course, nothing (and no one) prevents you from writing a FAQ if you
> believe that's appropriate, but I fear it will quickly turn into a
> summary page for all of the Fedora Project wiki. :)
>
There is no one who does or can know everything about the Fedora
Project, so I certainly don't think your goal as a mentor is to ensure
that that someone know $incredibleamounr about Fedora. You of course
want to make sure they at least know a bit about Fedora, and more
importantly how to find answers. A number of people refer to this as
"productively lost"
Max and I have humorously poked at each other about this many times in
the past. In some of our interviews together, almost without fail
we'd each get questions that we'd have to throw to the other person to
get a good answer for the interviewer. So you're absolutely right --
no one can know all the answers, we just have to be willing to find
them, and engage the person asking the question to help them become
interested in being productively lost. Not everyone wants that, so
we should judge that desire, and be willing to find an answer and give
it to them later if needed.
The bigger question though (and one that would, in my mind, satisfy
the above points) is: Are you satisfied that the person your are
mentoring is capable of representing Fedora appropriately? It's
completely subjective, but a lot of trust is placed in the hands of
mentors, much as it is with packaging sponsors.
Exactly -- that's how we provide scalability.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
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Where open source multiplies: http://opensource.com
12:58 p.m.
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 15:57, David Nalley <david(a)gnsa.us> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 4:15 AM, Mathieu Bridon
<bochecha(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> Do people think the role of a mentor is to not validate a candidate
> ambassador until he has sufficient knowledge, using some kind of
> certification mechanism? Or should the mentor rather establish the
> base of a never-ending journey towards getting that knowledge, while
> making sure the candidate is mature enough to either ask for help from
> another ambassador or ask for some more time to answer?
>
> I'm certainly in favor of the second possibility, but I've only
> mentored 4 people until now, so I'm most certainly doing it wrong. ;)
>
There is no one who does or can know everything about the Fedora
Project, so I certainly don't think your goal as a mentor is to ensure
that that someone know $incredibleamounr about Fedora. You of course
want to make sure they at least know a bit about Fedora, and more
importantly how to find answers. A number of people refer to this as
"productively lost"
The bigger question though (and one that would, in my mind, satisfy
the above points) is: Are you satisfied that the person your are
mentoring is capable of representing Fedora appropriately? It's
completely subjective, but a lot of trust is placed in the hands of
mentors, much as it is with packaging sponsors.
Those were rhetorical questions, sorry if I was unclear.
But thanks for stating more clearly my thoughts about validation and
certification when it comes to ambassadors. :)
----------
Mathieu Bridon
10:56 p.m.
On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 23:04 -0700, "Jeff Sandys" <jpsandys(a)yahoo.com>
wrote:
When a user
asked about ATI graphics issues I replied I couldn't answer. But when a
user carrying an imac (comparing it to colorful OLPCs) asked if we had a
powerPC version, I answered incorrectly, saying no.
I don't see anything wrong is saying, "I'm not sure ... I'll check that
out, and get back to you in a moment".
There are so many things about Fedora and FOSS that I don't know (and
may never know).
--
Oku, Onyeibo
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Twohot
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--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Email service worth paying for. Try it for free
11:05 p.m.
On 02/05/10 04:56, Onyeibo Oku wrote:
On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 23:04 -0700, "Jeff Sandys"
<jpsandys(a)yahoo.com>
wrote:
> When a user
> asked about ATI graphics issues I replied I couldn't answer. But when a
> user carrying an imac (comparing it to colorful OLPCs) asked if we had a
> powerPC version, I answered incorrectly, saying no.
I don't see anything wrong is saying, "I'm not sure ... I'll check that
out, and get back to you in a moment".
There are so many things about Fedora and FOSS that I don't know (and
may never know).
In fact, if you do not know, you should just say so. That is the
professional way of handling questions. Apart from the fact, that you
make yourself look like a fool, otherwise. Helping to investigate an
issue, that is, having knowledge to help and find out why an issue is
present, is knowledge/experience, which is second to knowing the answer.
And nobody can know everything! It is impossible to know everything and
I see this every day, in Fedora and in work. Professionalism entails to
approach others for advice, or to know where to find the right advice.
That is also what happens at University, you are taught, how and where
to find information and to apply such information in a correct manner,
this includes conveying that gathered information. University is useful
in that respect.
As ambassadors, we also expect you to build your proficiency in terms of
Fedora, so that you can convey correct information.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Tristan
--
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TS4523-RIPE
Network and Infrastructure Operations
InterNexusConnect
Mobile +44-78-55069812
Tristan.Santore(a)internexusconnect.net
Former Thawte Notary
(Please note: Thawte has closed its WoT programme down,
and I am therefor no longer able to accredit trust)
For Fedora related issues, please email me at:
TSantore(a)fedoraproject.org
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8 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Christoph Wickert -
David Nalley -
Jeff Sandys -
Joerg Simon -
Mathieu Bridon -
Onyeibo Oku -
Paul W. Frields -
Tristan Santore