Re: [Ambassadors] Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Armelk (AKServer)]

Good Afternoon,

I agree with you and I discust about this point
with Chitlesh 3 weeks ago and we have the same
point of view.
But, after a short discussion with himm we share
the same point of view about this subjet is : 

1st Step : Creation of a legal entity in your
country (Exemple Fedora-FR in France)
2nd Step : After the 1st step I OK

Why ?
 - It's necessary we have a really big local
community
 - Strong local message on the Fedora Commnunity.
 - Prepare the local event and share it with the
Europen Fedora team (Exemple Fudcon, I agree it's
a major event, but very good exemple to share the
knowledge)


Best Regards

Armel

----- Message Original -----
Sujet: [Ambassadors] Proposal: Fedora European
Infrastructure
De: mirjam.waeckerlin(a)gmail.com
A: fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
Date: 05-03-2007 23:03


>  Hello,
>  
>  Chitlesh and I we created the draft for Fedora 
European Infrastructure
>  with the help of some people on #fedora-mktg.
>  The Page still needs a lot of work, add your 
constructive comments and
>  proposals on:
>  
>  
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Drafts/Europe
>  
>  This is the first draft as a result of the 
discussions at fosdem 2007.
>  
>  This draft should be completed and hopefully 
someone will step in for
>  the post as the Fedora European Executive before 
LinuxTag 2007
Berlin.
>  
>  After LinuxTag the real work should get started.
>  
>  Subscription to the wikipage is adviced.
>  
>  Regards,
>  
>  Mirjam
>  
>  --
>  Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
>  Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
>  
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Francesco Ugolini]

I don't agree with this point of view. I think we have yes to work on
localisation but we have to stay together. I know that each country
has its problem etc.. but we have to remember we are a Global
Community, that have to work together to solve its problem. I want to
use to describe this thing the European Motto:" United in the
diversity" .
I think that Fedora European Infrastructure could help in this sense,
without closing each country in their problems but sharing our
experiences, ideas and working together to improve ourselves.

I've said those word one houndred times but i think they give the
sense of this discussion: We need a reference point, that could help
all people and could manage our issues: it's impossible to think that
USA can manage all those ones, because we are too far.

Fedora European Infrastructure will be a tool for european people.

Regards

Francesco Ugolini

2007/3/6, Kermorvant Armel <armelk(a)akserver.dyndns.org&gt;:
>  Good Afternoon,
>
>  I agree with you and I discust about this point
>  with Chitlesh 3 weeks ago and we have the same
>  point of view.
>  But, after a short discussion with himm we share
>  the same point of view about this subjet is :
>
>  1st Step : Creation of a legal entity in your
>  country (Exemple Fedora-FR in France)
>  2nd Step : After the 1st step I OK
>
>  Why ?
>   - It's necessary we have a really big local
>  community
>   - Strong local message on the Fedora Commnunity.
>   - Prepare the local event and share it with the
>  Europen Fedora team (Exemple Fudcon, I agree it's
>  a major event, but very good exemple to share the
>  knowledge)
>
>
>  Best Regards
>
>  Armel
>
>  ----- Message Original -----
>  Sujet: [Ambassadors] Proposal: Fedora European
>  Infrastructure
>  De: mirjam.waeckerlin(a)gmail.com
>  A: fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
>  Date: 05-03-2007 23:03
>
>
>  > Hello,
>  >
>  > Chitlesh and I we created the draft for Fedora
>  European Infrastructure
>  > with the help of some people on #fedora-mktg.
>  > The Page still needs a lot of work, add your
>  constructive comments and
>  > proposals on:
>  >
>  >
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Drafts/Europe
>  >
>  > This is the first draft as a result of the
>  discussions at fosdem 2007.
>  >
>  > This draft should be completed and hopefully
>  someone will step in for
>  > the post as the Fedora European Executive before
>  LinuxTag 2007 Berlin.
>  >
>  > After LinuxTag the real work should get started.
>  >
>  > Subscription to the wikipage is adviced.
>  >
>  > Regards,
>  >
>  > Mirjam
>  >
>  > --
>  > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
>  > Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
>  >
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>
>
>  --
>  Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
>  Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Rahul Sundaram]

Kermorvant Armel wrote:
>  Good Afternoon,
>  
>  I agree with you and I discust about this point
>  with Chitlesh 3 weeks ago and we have the same
>  point of view.
>  But, after a short discussion with himm we share
>  the same point of view about this subjet is : 
>  
>  1st Step : Creation of a legal entity in your
>  country (Exemple Fedora-FR in France) 
Is there any good reasons to create a separate legal entity on a 
regional basis? Have you consulted with Red Hat legal on this?

Rahul

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Chitlesh GOORAH]

On 3/6/07, Kermorvant Armel wrote:
>  I agree with you and I discust about this point with Chitlesh 3 weeks
> ago and we have the
> same point of view.
>  But, after a short discussion with himm we share the same point of view about this
>  subjet is : 
>  1st Step : Creation of a legal entity in your country (Exemple
> Fedora-FR in France)
>  2nd Step : After the 1st step I OK 
I disagreed having Europe moving in that direction.

Hello, though, I don't remember when that discussion took place, I
think I made it clear that :
- the real work should be done at the Fedora Ambassador's project
  i.e in the other terms Fedora Ambassadors/Marketing Mailing Lists
and its meetings
- Fedora-fr is for "donations" and the "shop". However, I'm NOT
for
Fedora-fr being independent from Fedora Ambassador Project.

In general, I don't want local communities to be independent of Fedora
Ambassador Project. I understand that language is a problem. But
should we take language as a blocker for working together ?

We have seen in the past:
- FAD (Fedora Ambassador Day)
- FOSDEM2007
where we had ambassadors and fedora contributors from different
countries. Sure we had at some point converged to english as the
language for communication, but at the same time Fedora isn't a
language contest, but about open-source.

Fedora said and will be saying working "the upstream model" is the
where progress will be.
We have to make sure that Fedora Ambassadors does his job!

And at the same time have a look at our Fedora Ambassador Meeting, it's dying !!
Meetings have loss its sense and ambassadors don't take part on the
project but ready to criticized whenever they feel like.

Having legal entity for each country will lead to :
- everyone will concentrate on his/her country only under the name of
Fedora but not for Fedora
- Fedora Marketing and FAMSCo won't know what is happening in your
country hence our infrastructure that we are working on will not be
useful and someone has to :
  - tell Max that we are not ready for the infrastructure.
  - bear all the critics and flame wars that Red Hat is giving up on
Fedora or whatever because local communities are too weak to be
operating on their own.
  - agree that he/she refused the infrastructure that will make
his/her fedora community better that any other linux project has done
or can do. I know many in this list compare fedora projects to
ubuntu's, but won't you like not to say/do anything and everything is
praising fedora ? Now is the time.

The  different Fedora Projects operate independently and
automatically. But unfortunately each project can't listen and satisfy
each contributor. It is the case of the Fedora Ambassadors project
where contributors want to do things, but unfortunately to do so for
this particular project a minimum budget is required.

A Fedora Ambassador is someone who spread the word for Fedora. But
unfortunately that Fedora Ambassador is weak without infrastructure
and budget to make things for Fedora's advantage.

To make that Fedora Ambassadors' life better in terms of
infrastructure and budget, there are different ways to do so:
- creating local communities and legal entities
- sit and cry
- sit and wait
- use some of the infrastructure and budget that Fedora Marketing has.

The last item in our case today is that Max proposed an extra budget
for Europe and the question is how can that budget be shared and used
appropriately among European Ambassadors ?

Eventually, everyone can opt for the _ultimate_ solution[2], i.e "sit and
wait".

MirjamWaeckerlin, ThomasCanniot, GeroldKassube and I proposed "Fedora
European Infrastructure" which is a set of guidelines on what kind of
Executive we are looking for.

But this ultimate solution[2] will lead to someone needs to do that
job and that job will be done according to his/her way. Of course one
or two months, some will "sit and cry" because the guidelines :
- aren't in their favour
- give credit to how hard they worked
- ....

I'm quite sad that those who said that the actual Fedora Ambassador
infrastructure sucks and their requests aren't processed or rejected,
that they didn't step in to propose new but concrete ideas.

Or perhaps you think that MirjamWaeckerlin, ThomasCanniot,
GeroldKassube and I have already done everything. Believe me, we
haven't!

Things like:
- how and on what circumstances the Executive will reimburse a fedora ambassador
- can any ambassador be reimbursed ?
- is the Executive the one who will provide tshirts or dvds to other
european ambassadors
- the delay of reimbursed and how
- ....
needs to be discussed and write as guidelines so that in the future,
we know who has what kind of rights.

Before we all get confused in unrealistic ideas/suggestions for the
future of the "Fedora European Infrastructure", take a short break and
look at the picture from an objective point of view.

Hai it's is all about money !
- If one country has a way to make money ("see RH legal) for
sponsoring their Fedora events, so perhaps don't need that "Fedora
European Infrastructure" we are building.
- it is not only about spending money, but at the same time, try to
bring back some(at least small) amount of money back either from
selling dvds/tshirts as donations at the booth. (I was waiting for
someone to say such thing, but anyway)

JoergSimon and I collected 214€ from Chemnitz Linuxtag and right now,
he kept the money. But if we had already "Fedora European
Infrastructure" we could add it to the Fedora European budget.

This means that if someone is coming from Paris or Copenhague and that
his/her local community doesn't have enough money perhaps that money
of "Fedora European Infrastructure" can be used to pay his/her voyage.

But if everyone sticks to his/her country(local community), and prays
only that local community, then contributors from one european country
will not help fedora contributors of another countries. I'm sorry
then, we are not Fedora.

We will not be that Fedora which cares for:
- upstream
- centralized repository
- its contributors

The Fedora Project is a set of projects where most of the time, in each project
- there is a steering committee and the contributors
- some contributors [1] contributes on other projects.

The steering committee does the communication between the different
projects (some other contributors[1] help also) to make sure that the
final output is professional and of quality.

Right now, we can conclude from a country X the fedora project can
have many contributors on different projects.
E.g. country X may have :
- n contributors on documentation project,
- m contributors on artwork project,
- n+P contributors on the ambassadors project

Perhaps if our mechanisms is being successful "Fedora European
Infrastructure" could pay other fedora contributors(other than
ambassadors) to come and attend a fudcon for example.

I'll stop writing I've a lot to say and will never end.

Here is fedora
- professional contributors
- good looking personals at the booth
- personals at the booth have materials for the events
- professional projects and professional distributions
- keep on being innovative
- has man power to do the job
- community can talk and express

Here are other distributions:
- lack of man power
- boss kills good project
- have only a distribution
- geeks at the booth
- waste events behind computer screens instead of spreading the word.

I think you don't want fedora to be in that "other distributions"
category. I don't. Fedora is special let's keep on making it special
is my wish.

FrancescoUgolini expressed correctly we have to remember we are a Global
Community, that have to work together to solve its problem.

regards,
Chitlesh
-- 
http://clunixchit.blogspot.com

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Thomas Canniot]

Le mercredi 07 mars 2007 à 16:29 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a écrit :
>  Kermorvant Armel wrote:
>  > Good Afternoon,
>  > 
>  > I agree with you and I discust about this point
>  > with Chitlesh 3 weeks ago and we have the same
>  > point of view.
>  > But, after a short discussion with himm we share
>  > the same point of view about this subjet is : 
>  > 
>  > 1st Step : Creation of a legal entity in your
>  > country (Exemple Fedora-FR in France)
>  
>  Is there any good reasons to create a separate legal entity on a 
>  regional basis? Have you consulted with Red Hat legal on this?
>   
As long as the Fedora Project can't be given money by users to help
promoting the project and as long as the ambassadors project will fail
fulfilling some of our requests (despite everybody good will) there are
only good reasons to do it.
Moreover, Franz Meyer, RH Director of South Europe & MEA knows about our
plans and wishes RH France to help us.

Thomas

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Thomas Canniot]

Le jeudi 08 mars 2007 à 22:56 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH a écrit :
>  On 3/6/07, Kermorvant Armel wrote:
>  > I agree with you and I discust about this point with Chitlesh 3 weeks ago and we
> have the
>  >same point of view.
>  > But, after a short discussion with himm we share the same point of view about this
>  > subjet is :
>  
>  > 1st Step : Creation of a legal entity in your country (Exemple Fedora-FR in France)
>  > 2nd Step : After the 1st step I OK
>  
>  I disagreed having Europe moving in that direction.
>  
>  Hello, though, I don't remember when that discussion took place, I
>  think I made it clear that :
>  - the real work should be done at the Fedora Ambassador's project
>    i.e in the other terms Fedora Ambassadors/Marketing Mailing Lists
>  and its meetings
>  - Fedora-fr is for "donations" and the "shop". However, I'm NOT
> for
>  Fedora-fr being independent from Fedora Ambassador Project. 
Just keep in mind that Fedora-fr first steering committee has *only*
Fedora Ambassadors in it. Is this enough to reassure you ?

>  
>  In general, I don't want local communities to be independent of Fedora
>  Ambassador Project. I understand that language is a problem. But
>  should we take language as a blocker for working together ? 
As its president, I don't wish it either. We share the same goals than
Amb. Project : promoting the distro.

>  
>  We have seen in the past:
>  - FAD (Fedora Ambassador Day)
>  - FOSDEM2007
>  where we had ambassadors and fedora contributors from different
>  countries. Sure we had at some point converged to english as the
>  language for communication, but at the same time Fedora isn't a
>  language contest, but about open-source.
>  
>  Fedora said and will be saying working "the upstream model" is the
>  where progress will be.
>  We have to make sure that Fedora Ambassadors does his job! 
It is doing well I think. We were encouraged to create stuff locally,
and as no people wanted / could not to pay in advance schwags, we had to
create a legal organisation. That is as simple as that. 

>  
>  And at the same time have a look at our Fedora Ambassador Meeting, it's dying !!
>  Meetings have loss its sense and ambassadors don't take part on the
>  project but ready to criticized whenever they feel like. 
I agree and I admit not attending Meeting any more. I have a new fresh
eyes about it since FOSDEM. But I really tend to *forget* them. We used
to have a mail reminder, where has it gone ?

>  
>  Having legal entity for each country will lead to :
>  - everyone will concentrate on his/her country only under the name of
>  Fedora but not for Fedora 
I don't agree with this statement. Working localy is a good start to
then work as a whole project. We have to stay close to our user base.

>  - Fedora Marketing and FAMSCo won't know what is happening in
> your
>  country hence our infrastructure that we are working on will not be
>  useful and someone has to :
>    - tell Max that we are not ready for the infrastructure.
>    - bear all the critics and flame wars that Red Hat is giving up on
>  Fedora or whatever because local communities are too weak to be
>  operating on their own.
>    - agree that he/she refused the infrastructure that will make
>  his/her fedora community better that any other linux project has done
>  or can do. I know many in this list compare fedora projects to
>  ubuntu's, but won't you like not to say/do anything and everything is
>  praising fedora ? Now is the time.
>  
>  The  different Fedora Projects operate independently and
>  automatically. But unfortunately each project can't listen and satisfy
>  each contributor. It is the case of the Fedora Ambassadors project
>  where contributors want to do things, but unfortunately to do so for
>  this particular project a minimum budget is required.
>  
>  A Fedora Ambassador is someone who spread the word for Fedora. But
>  unfortunately that Fedora Ambassador is weak without infrastructure
>  and budget to make things for Fedora's advantage. 
In any extent, it seems to be as well a problem we are trying to solve
through Fedora-fr.

>  
>  To make that Fedora Ambassadors' life better in terms of
>  infrastructure and budget, there are different ways to do so:
>  - creating local communities and legal entities
>  - sit and cry
>  - sit and wait
>  - use some of the infrastructure and budget that Fedora Marketing has.
>  
>  The last item in our case today is that Max proposed an extra budget
>  for Europe and the question is how can that budget be shared and used
>  appropriately among European Ambassadors ?
>  
>  Eventually, everyone can opt for the _ultimate_ solution[2], i.e "sit and
> wait".
>  
>  MirjamWaeckerlin, ThomasCanniot, GeroldKassube and I proposed "Fedora
>  European Infrastructure" which is a set of guidelines on what kind of
>  Executive we are looking for.
>  
>  But this ultimate solution[2] will lead to someone needs to do that
>  job and that job will be done according to his/her way. Of course one
>  or two months, some will "sit and cry" because the guidelines :
>  - aren't in their favour
>  - give credit to how hard they worked
>  - ....
>  
>  I'm quite sad that those who said that the actual Fedora Ambassador
>  infrastructure sucks and their requests aren't processed or rejected,
>  that they didn't step in to propose new but concrete ideas.
>  
>  Or perhaps you think that MirjamWaeckerlin, ThomasCanniot,
>  GeroldKassube and I have already done everything. Believe me, we
>  haven't!
>  
>  Things like:
>  - how and on what circumstances the Executive will reimburse a fedora ambassador
>  - can any ambassador be reimbursed ?
>  - is the Executive the one who will provide tshirts or dvds to other
>  european ambassadors
>  - the delay of reimbursed and how
>  - ....
>  needs to be discussed and write as guidelines so that in the future,
>  we know who has what kind of rights.
>  
>  Before we all get confused in unrealistic ideas/suggestions for the
>  future of the "Fedora European Infrastructure", take a short break and
>  look at the picture from an objective point of view.
>  
>  Hai it's is all about money !
>  - If one country has a way to make money ("see RH legal) for
>  sponsoring their Fedora events, so perhaps don't need that "Fedora
>  European Infrastructure" we are building. 
I do think we need it. Red Hat would prefer giving it to an
organisation / infrastructure towards it can be accountable. I don't
think they would give money to individuals in every European countries.
Here, it is a question of credibility.

Thomas

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Francesco Ugolini]

>  I agree and I admit not attending Meeting any more. I have a new
> fresh
>  eyes about it since FOSDEM. But I really tend to *forget* them. We used
>  to have a mail reminder, where has it gone ? 
I send the day before an email with all information.

Francesco

-- 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FrancescoUgolini

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Thomas Canniot]

Le vendredi 09 mars 2007 à 16:14 +0100, Francesco Ugolini a écrit :
>  > I agree and I admit not attending Meeting any more. I have a new
> fresh
>  > eyes about it since FOSDEM. But I really tend to *forget* them. We used
>  > to have a mail reminder, where has it gone ?
>  
>  I send the day before an email with all information. 
Yep that's all my fault :s

Thomas

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Chitlesh GOORAH]

Hello there,
It's been a week now since constructive comments are no longer roaming
in this thread.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Drafts/Europe

Now, here is a list of those contructive comments:
(Discussed on 08 Mar 07 Meeting:)
1)  a swiss bank account (proposed by JoergSimon)
         o    before or after LinuxTag ? - not yet decided - ChitleshGoorah
         o    Austria is also nice with tax! - ClausReheis
2)  214€ from CLT by ChitleshGoorah and JoergSimon - first deposit as
an example to follow
3)  Executive will possess account data and id in shops which will be
useful to produce swags or dvds (proposed by JoergSimon)
4)  a non profit organisation, and sell things through a shop, there
are no tax at all normally (or at least in france)- ThomasCanniot
5)  bank account managed by a legal entity (not by an individual) -
ThomasCanniot

Any one who proposed one/more idea(s) has anything new to add or
inform people on this list?

This infrastructure is targetted to Europeans at the moment, however
this doesn't mean that non-europeans can't suggest or say anything :)
Everyone on this ML can express his/her views to push this
infrastructure forward and perhaps as a model to follow if it
succeeds.

regards,
Chitlesh
-- 
http://clunixchit.blogspot.com

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Fabian Affolter]

Zitat von Chitlesh GOORAH <chitlesh(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:

>  Now, here is a list of those contructive comments:
>  (Discussed on 08 Mar 07 Meeting:)
>  1)  a swiss bank account (proposed by JoergSimon)
>          o    before or after LinuxTag ? - not yet decided - ChitleshGoorah
>          o    Austria is also nice with tax! - ClausReheis 
The goods and services tax (aka MwSt or VAT) is in Switzerland 7,6 %. This
is much lower as in Germany (19 %) or Austria (20 %). Please correct me when
I'm wrong. But this is only one side. Switzerland is not a Member of the EU
(sometimes are there problems with the delivery over the european borders)
and the costs for bank tansactions are around 3-5€ (transaction from a swiss
account to an account in Germany). But the "bank secret" (Bankgeheimnis) is
known worldwide.

>  2)  214€ from CLT by ChitleshGoorah and JoergSimon - first deposit
> as
>  an example to follow 
good idea :-)

>  4)  a non profit organisation, and sell things through a shop, there
>  are no tax at all normally (or at least in france)- ThomasCanniot 
About this point. I will try to find out how this is in Switzerland.

>  5)  bank account managed by a legal entity (not by an individual) -
>  ThomasCanniot 
I agree with Thomas. Maybe there is a way that Red Hat Switzerland (or
elsewhere) will open an account in the name of the Fedora project and
two or three ambassadors (from different countries) are responsible for
this account.

This are just my thoughts...

regards,

Fabian

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Gerold]

All ...

... maybe we should stop discuss here in the ML because imho I think, we
should discuss this point at the next FAD EMEA (2007-05-29) in
Berlin ...

Please don't misunderstood me, I don't want you to stop conversation or
discussing by ML, but I personally think this issue has to be discussed
face-to-face in a short timeframe ...

This is to important and has too much influence to the whole project in
Germany and to be honest whole Europe.

And elsewhere my first idea was also to follow the "french idea" and
after sleeping one night, I can't follow on this way because .....

.... argh; can I explain my concerns at the FAD, please????



Thanks

Gerold


Am Donnerstag, den 15.03.2007, 16:51 +0100 schrieb
fabian(a)bernewireless.net:
>  Zitat von Chitlesh GOORAH <chitlesh(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  
>  > Now, here is a list of those contructive comments:
>  > (Discussed on 08 Mar 07 Meeting:)
>  > 1)  a swiss bank account (proposed by JoergSimon)
>  >         o    before or after LinuxTag ? - not yet decided - ChitleshGoorah
>  >         o    Austria is also nice with tax! - ClausReheis
>  
>  The goods and services tax (aka MwSt or VAT) is in Switzerland 7,6 %. This
>  is much lower as in Germany (19 %) or Austria (20 %). Please correct me when
>  I'm wrong. But this is only one side. Switzerland is not a Member of the EU
>  (sometimes are there problems with the delivery over the european borders)
>  and the costs for bank tansactions are around 3-5€ (transaction from a swiss
>  account to an account in Germany). But the "bank secret" (Bankgeheimnis) is
>  known worldwide.
>  
>  > 2)  214€ from CLT by ChitleshGoorah and JoergSimon - first deposit as
>  > an example to follow
>  
>  good idea :-)
>  
>  > 4)  a non profit organisation, and sell things through a shop, there
>  > are no tax at all normally (or at least in france)- ThomasCanniot
>  
>  About this point. I will try to find out how this is in Switzerland.
>  
>  > 5)  bank account managed by a legal entity (not by an individual) -
>  > ThomasCanniot
>  
>  I agree with Thomas. Maybe there is a way that Red Hat Switzerland (or
>  elsewhere) will open an account in the name of the Fedora project and
>  two or three ambassadors (from different countries) are responsible for
>  this account.
>  
>  This are just my thoughts...
>  
>  regards,
>  
>  Fabian
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
>  Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>   
-- 
Gerold Kassube
-Vorstandsvorsitzender-

Linux Usergroup Lörrach e.V.
Marie-Curie-Strasse 8
79539 Lörrach
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Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Thomas Canniot]

Le jeudi 15 mars 2007 à 17:09 +0100, Gerold Kassube a écrit :
>  All ...
>  
>  ... maybe we should stop discuss here in the ML because imho I think, we
>  should discuss this point at the next FAD EMEA (2007-05-29) in
>  Berlin ...
>  
>  Please don't misunderstood me, I don't want you to stop conversation or
>  discussing by ML, but I personally think this issue has to be discussed
>  face-to-face in a short timeframe ...
>  
>  This is to important and has too much influence to the whole project in
>  Germany and to be honest whole Europe.
>  
>  And elsewhere my first idea was also to follow the "french idea" and
>  after sleeping one night, I can't follow on this way because .....
>  
>  .... argh; can I explain my concerns at the FAD, please????
>  
>   
We could, but as long as everybody may not attend the FAD...

Thomas

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Francesco Ugolini]

I think that people interested in this discussion will join FAD :)

Regards

Francesco Ugolini

Thomas Canniot ha scritto:
>  Le jeudi 15 mars 2007 à 17:09 +0100, Gerold Kassube a écrit :
> > All ...
> >
> > ... maybe we should stop discuss here in the ML because imho I think, we
> > should discuss this point at the next FAD EMEA (2007-05-29) in
> > Berlin ...
> >
> > Please don't misunderstood me, I don't want you to stop conversation or
> > discussing by ML, but I personally think this issue has to be discussed
> > face-to-face in a short timeframe ...
> >
> > This is to important and has too much influence to the whole project in
> > Germany and to be honest whole Europe.
> >
> > And elsewhere my first idea was also to follow the "french idea" and
> > after sleeping one night, I can't follow on this way because .....
> >
> > .... argh; can I explain my concerns at the FAD, please????
> >
> >
>  We could, but as long as everybody may not attend the FAD...
>  
>  Thomas
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>  --
>  Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
>  Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list 
-- 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FrancescoUgolini

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Thomas Canniot]

Le vendredi 16 mars 2007 à 16:21 +0100, Francesco Ugolini a écrit :
>  I think that people interested in this discussion will join FAD :)
>  
>  Regards
>  
>  Francesco Ugolini 
Then you are assuming that people who won't go to FAD are NOT interested
in FEI.

Let me tell you that this is completely the worse behaviour to have.

Let's close the mailing list and only organise meeting *somewhere* in
Europe / USA / Asia. This will help coordinating the effort worldwild
this way...

But remember that if you don't go to Asia, it's because you are not
interested in.

Cheers,

Thomas

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Gerold]

Thomas,

the FAD should _NOT_ be a further step in closing something, it should
be a additional step to get in touch, to discuss things much better than
over the ML.

Here at a FAD you have all persons at a table who should be effected to
any issue which is on the agenda (and not on it) ..


Am Freitag, den 16.03.2007, 18:58 +0100 schrieb Thomas Canniot:
>  Le vendredi 16 mars 2007 à 16:21 +0100, Francesco Ugolini a écrit :
>  > I think that people interested in this discussion will join FAD :)
>  > 
>  > Regards
>  > 
>  > Francesco Ugolini
>  
>  Then you are assuming that people who won't go to FAD are NOT interested
>  in FEI.
>  
>  Let me tell you that this is completely the worse behaviour to have.
>  
>  Let's close the mailing list and only organise meeting *somewhere* in
>  Europe / USA / Asia. This will help coordinating the effort worldwild
>  this way...
>  
>  But remember that if you don't go to Asia, it's because you are not
>  interested in. 
The Fedora Ambassador Day (FAD) is where Ambassadors and other
interested members of the Fedora Community come together to plan for
future Fedora events and get to know each other. We plan to have a FAD,
usually in connection with other Fedora events, in each region once per
year.

out of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD

Friendly yours

Gerold

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Thomas Canniot]

Le vendredi 16 mars 2007 à 19:25 +0100, Gerold Kassube a écrit :
>  Thomas,
>  
>  the FAD should _NOT_ be a further step in closing something, it should
>  be a additional step to get in touch, to discuss things much better than
>  over the ML.
>  
>  Here at a FAD you have all persons at a table who should be effected to
>  any issue which is on the agenda (and not on it) .. 
I know, but I don't think it is acceptable to stay without a word on
this subject for more than 2 months. 

>  
>  The Fedora Ambassador Day (FAD) is where Ambassadors and other
>  interested members of the Fedora Community come together to plan for
>  future Fedora events and get to know each other. We plan to have a FAD,
>  usually in connection with other Fedora events, in each region once per
>  year.
>  
>  out of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD 
I know :) I was just saying so because Francesco answer is very weird.

Cheers,

Thomas

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Chitlesh GOORAH]

Hello there,

On 3/16/07, Gerold Kassube wrote:
>  Here at a FAD you have all persons at a table who should be effected
> to
>  any issue which is on the agenda (and not on it) .. 
Sure, it is always best to have all concerned and active contributors
around the table. But unfortunately, for some reason or another not
every concerned and active contributor can be present and thus it will
be unfair for them. I might be such contributor who will miss Linuxtag
2007. So then, according to what you said gerold, my views won't
matter since I'll be absent. :(

>  > Le vendredi 16 mars 2007 à 16:21 +0100, Francesco Ugolini a
> écrit :
>  > > I think that people interested in this discussion will join FAD :) 
>  Am Freitag, den 16.03.2007, 18:58 +0100 schrieb Thomas Canniot:
>  > Then you are assuming that people who won't go to FAD are NOT interested
>  > in FEI.
>  >
>  > Let me tell you that this is completely the worse behaviour to have. 
ThomasCanniot is right here. Like I said above, this will be
summarized that I'm not interested in FEI, which is not true.

Now by how latest comments were brought forward, we will be doing the
_same mistake_ I did for FOSDEM.

I've now realised that A big Fedora Event doesn't implicate only
fedora ambassadors, but fedora contributors also.

Fedora Ambassadors should work with other projects and give the
latter's contributors the chance as well during any Fedora Event to
participate. If there is a big Fedora Event then it's also the time
for contributors of different fedora projects to talk:
- among themselves (with contributors of the same fedora project) -
e.g FAD, doc meeting, packaging meeting...
- with upstream present at the event
- with actual partners (if the particular project is working with
other distributions)
- with possible new contacts with other distributions

In the end, i want to converge to one point that in such big Fedora
Event, there isn't enough time to talk about everything. Let's spare
time if we can, because it will only benefit fedora in overall.

Most Fedora Ambassadors are not only dedicated to the Fedora
Ambassadors Project, but do also contribute on other Fedora Projects
such as KDE, FreeMedia, Documentations, Websites .......
During a Big Fedora Event it's also time for them to meet and discuss
their fedora projects as well.

(by Fedora Events, I mean those listed in wiki/FedoraEvents)


#001: Before FOSDEM FredericHornain said:
""PS: You know it is the first time that a lot Fedora people come to
Fosdem so everything can not be perfect. I am pretty sure that we will
do better organization next year.""

We tried to do our best on the mailing list and discussed many things
just to make the event successful. And it was.

At FOSDEM, I wanted to get the FEI discussed and started.
Unfortunately, we couldn't. Pushing some interesting goals for a later
schedule will lead to a delay in the process, which is unfortunate,
because we have some potential to make things happen ASAP.

#002: Though, sometimes I don't agree at 100% with RahulSundaram's
comments, he does lay down new fields that we didn't think that need
to be exploited. Since, possibly he can't attend LinuxtagBerlin, we
will miss his comments as well as ThomasChung's for the FEI's setup.

I prefer to discuss things here on this mailing list in order to allow
everyone's to participate and at the same time, let others
(none-concerned) to take the FEI as example if FEI is proved to be
successful. Yet another way of mentoring which was discussed during
the last FAD.

#003 ThomasCanniot's recent mail on the French status on FEI showed a
different opinion compared to that of the german's. Yes, it is a fact.
Perhaps, we may never converge to certain agreement on a common
ground. But in fact for fedora's sake, we have to converge to a
certain agreement.
Yes, in order to hear the different views of "concerned" contributors,
it's better to hear it before the LinuxtagBerlin, so that at Linuxtag
a decison could be taken and FEI kick off. But if we listen to
everyone's views at Linuxtag, it will make FEI's setup a lengthier
process.

I still welcome any ambassador to express his/her views about the FEI.

My wish:
Before Linuxtag,
1) discuss and listen views of concerned contributors
2) discuss and listen views of NON concerned contributors (however
everyone in this mailing list is concerned since it is Fedora
Ambassador PRoject related)
3) setup a proposal of who should be the Executive of FEI
4) know whether MaxSpevack still care to give the budget or not
5) listen to everyone from an _objective_ point of view
6) document on legal issues - at Linuxtag, it will be on the fly, and
you will agree with me it isn't appropriate at that time
During Linuxtag,
7) bring forward a summary of what has been discussed
8) assign Executives
9) (things what I missed)
After Linuxtag, FEI be kick off and everyone is happy.


regards,
Chitlesh
-- 
http://clunixchit.blogspot.com

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Robert Scheck]

Hello folks,

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007, fabian(a)bernewireless.net wrote:
>  The goods and services tax (aka MwSt or VAT) is in Switzerland 7,6 %.
> This
>  is much lower as in Germany (19 %) or Austria (20 %). Please correct me when
>  I'm wrong. But this is only one side. Switzerland is not a Member of the EU
>  (sometimes are there problems with the delivery over the european borders)
>  and the costs for bank tansactions are around 3-5€ (transaction from a swiss
>  account to an account in Germany). But the "bank secret" (Bankgeheimnis) is
>  known worldwide. 
As far as I know, you a) can't simply open an account at a Swiss bank and
b) you already need money at the opening to pay in. And I'm not talking
about 50 or 100 Euro here. But finally, I've got no Swiss bank account, so
I'm not sure, whether my information are correct.

>  I agree with Thomas. Maybe there is a way that Red Hat Switzerland
> (or
>  elsewhere) will open an account in the name of the Fedora project and
>  two or three ambassadors (from different countries) are responsible for
>  this account. 
Opening an account by the help of e.g. Red Hat Switzerland in the name of
the Fedora Project sounds well to me, but it could get interesting as the
Swiss banks are distrustful for usual because of money laundering. But as
said before, I didn't open such an account; it's just what I know. People
from Switzerland, please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere...


Greetings,
  Robert

Proposal: Fedora European Infrastructure

[Guillaume Kulakowski]

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Francesco Ugolini a écrit :
>  I think that people interested in this discussion will join FAD :)
I will make all my possible because I am very interested by a FEI


Thomas Canniot a écrit :
>  I know, but I don't think it is acceptable to stay without a word
> on
>  this subject for more than 2 months. 
+1
It is necessary to advance a maximum to arrive there with solid bases.


- --
Guillaume Kulakowski
French Fedora Ambassador <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/GuillaumeKulakowski>
Webmaster of the French Fedora Core related website
<http://www.fedora-fr.org>
Jabber : llaumgui(a)jabber.ru
MSN Messenger : llaumgui(a)hotmail.com

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