FAD EMEA (2007-11-23 - 2007-11-25)

[Gerold]

Hello Everybody!

I'm again planing a FAD in November for all European Ambassadors in the
above mentioned timeframe near to the Swiss border in Rheinfelden (next
[low-cost-]airport is Basel; Transfer from Basel-to Rheinfelden will be
organized)

The topics (at this time) are:

- Events 2008
  (covering, attention, needs; budget discussions)
- Non profit organisation
  (what will we do [next?!])
- SWAG
  (Memebership, Webshop, etc.)
- Discussions & Fun, Fun, Fun, Fun ....

When you're willing to attend and be part of this FAD, please let me
know asap.

[Joerg Simon]

Am Samstag, 15. September 2007 12:44:29 schrieb Gerold Kassube:
> Hello Everybody!
>
> I'm again planing a FAD in November for all European Ambassadors in the
> above mentioned timeframe near to the Swiss border in Rheinfelden (next
> [low-cost-]airport is Basel; 
> When you're willing to attend and be part of this FAD, please let me
> know asap.

The Reason for the succesfull events in Europe and the progress in Europe to 
communicate and help one another in 2007 was the outstanding work of many 
ambassadors accross europe - but - this would not happened in this quality 
without the FAD in Dec2006. So i recommend the FAD2007 to everyone who is 
willing to force our work in 2008.

CU Joerg

p.s. Maybe some of our french friends will also participate - because they 
have one of the biggest communities in Europe and are pioneers in some of the 
mentioned topics - remember the talk on Fosdem from Thomas.
--
Jörg Simon
[e-mail]
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

[Thomas Canniot]

Le Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:49:53 +0200,
JoergSimon  a écrit :
> Am Samstag, 15. September 2007 12:44:29 schrieb Gerold Kassube:
> > Hello Everybody!
> >
> > I'm again planing a FAD in November for all European Ambassadors in
> > the above mentioned timeframe near to the Swiss border in
> > Rheinfelden (next [low-cost-]airport is Basel; 
> > When you're willing to attend and be part of this FAD, please let me
> > know asap.
>
> The Reason for the succesfull events in Europe and the progress in
> Europe to communicate and help one another in 2007 was the
> outstanding work of many ambassadors accross europe - but - this
> would not happened in this quality without the FAD in Dec2006. So i
> recommend the FAD2007 to everyone who is willing to force our work in
> 2008.
>
> CU Joerg

I just looked on the web about the road and all that stuff... I think
it is doable for me to be there.

Thomas

[Francesco Ugolini]

I tell Gerold i will not able to attend the event due
to my new university course.

Regards

Francesco Ugolini
e--- Thomas Canniot  wrote:
> Le Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:49:53 +0200,
> JoergSimon  a écrit :
> > Am Samstag, 15. September 2007 12:44:29 schrieb
>
> Gerold Kassube:
> > > Hello Everybody!
> > >
> > > I'm again planing a FAD in November for all
>
> European Ambassadors in
> > > the above mentioned timeframe near to the Swiss
>
> border in
> > > Rheinfelden (next [low-cost-]airport is Basel; 
> > > When you're willing to attend and be part of
>
> this FAD, please let me
> > > know asap.
> >
> > The Reason for the succesfull events in Europe and
>
> the progress in
> > Europe to communicate and help one another in 2007
>
> was the
> > outstanding work of many ambassadors accross
>
> europe - but - this
> > would not happened in this quality without the FAD
>
> in Dec2006. So i
> > recommend the FAD2007 to everyone who is willing
>
> to force our work in
> > CU Joerg
>
> I just looked on the web about the road and all that
> stuff... I think
> it is doable for me to be there.
>
> Thomas
> > --
>
> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> [e-mail]

https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
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[Jeroen van Meeuwen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Gerold Kassube wrote:
> Hello Everybody!
>
> I'm again planing a FAD in November for all European Ambassadors in the
> above mentioned timeframe near to the Swiss border in Rheinfelden (next
> [low-cost-]airport is Basel; Transfer from Basel-to Rheinfelden will be
> organized)
>
> The topics (at this time) are:
> Events 2008
> (covering, attention, needs; budget discussions)
> Non profit organisation
> (what will we do [next?!])
> SWAG
> (Memebership, Webshop, etc.)
> Discussions & Fun, Fun, Fun, Fun ....
>
> When you're willing to attend and be part of this FAD, please let me
> know asap.

I'll be attending.

- --
Kind regards,

Jeroen van Meeuwen
- -kanarip

- --
http://www.kanarip.com/
RHCE, LPIC-2, MCP, CCNA
C6B0 7FB4 43E6 CDDA D258  F70B 28DE 9FDA 9342 BF08
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> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
>
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> fs5T17jRIjK/IaQThChj68Y=
> =8tai
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Fabian Affolter]

Gerold Kassube wrote:
> Hello Everybody!
>
> I'm again planing a FAD in November for all European Ambassadors in the
> above mentioned timeframe near to the Swiss border in Rheinfelden (next
> [low-cost-]airport is Basel; Transfer from Basel-to Rheinfelden will be
> organized)
>
> The topics (at this time) are:
> Events 2008
> (covering, attention, needs; budget discussions)
> Non profit organisation
> (what will we do [next?!])
> SWAG
> (Memebership, Webshop, etc.)
> Discussions & Fun, Fun, Fun, Fun ....
>
> When you're willing to attend and be part of this FAD, please let me
> know asap.

I'll be attending

Fabian

[Gerold]

Thanks Fabian, ...

and also thanks for the setup of the FAD-page again in the WIKI on
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADEMEA2007 where all Attendees should
fill in their names :-)

Regards

Gerold

Am Freitag, den 21.09.2007, 22:34 +0200 schrieb Fabian Affolter:
> Gerold Kassube wrote:
> > Hello Everybody!
> >
> > I'm again planing a FAD in November for all European Ambassadors in the
> > above mentioned timeframe near to the Swiss border in Rheinfelden (next
> > [low-cost-]airport is Basel; Transfer from Basel-to Rheinfelden will be
> > organized)
> >
> > The topics (at this time) are:
> > Events 2008
> > (covering, attention, needs; budget discussions)
> > Non profit organisation
> > (what will we do [next?!])
> > SWAG
> > (Memebership, Webshop, etc.)
> > Discussions & Fun, Fun, Fun, Fun ....
> >
> > When you're willing to attend and be part of this FAD, please let me
> > know asap.
>
> I'll be attending
>
> Fabian
>
> --
> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list

[Thomas Canniot]

Le Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:41:45 +0200,
Gerold Kassube  a écrit :
> Thanks Fabian, ...
>
> and also thanks for the setup of the FAD-page again in the WIKI on
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADEMEA2007 where all Attendees
> should fill in their names :-)
>
> Regards
>
> Gerold
>
> Am Freitag, den 21.09.2007, 22:34 +0200 schrieb Fabian Affolter:
> > Gerold Kassube wrote:
> > > Hello Everybody!
> > >
> > > I'm again planing a FAD in November for all European Ambassadors
> > > in the above mentioned timeframe near to the Swiss border in
> > > Rheinfelden (next [low-cost-]airport is Basel; Transfer from
> > > Basel-to Rheinfelden will be organized)
> > >
> > > The topics (at this time) are:
> > > Events 2008
> > > (covering, attention, needs; budget discussions)
> > > Non profit organisation
> > > (what will we do [next?!])
> > > SWAG
> > > (Memebership, Webshop, etc.)
> > > Discussions & Fun, Fun, Fun, Fun ....
> > >
> > > When you're willing to attend and be part of this FAD, please let
> > > me know asap.
> >
> > I'll be attending
> >
> > Fabian

Ok I'm working on  the trip at the moment and I would like to know if
the Fedora Project could reimburse the flight to go to Basel for 2
people.

We would be 2 French people attending (me and Pierre-Yves Chibon)
and coming by plane is much easier for us as it avoids 7 hours
driving (10hours for Pierre-Yves).
Moreover, we would have to come by night on Friday as well as we have
courses to follow at the university.

Thanks to let me know,

Thomas

[Thomas Canniot]

Le Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:14:46 +0200,
Thomas Canniot  a écrit :
> Le Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:41:45 +0200,
> Gerold Kassube  a écrit :
> > Thanks Fabian, ...
> >
> > and also thanks for the setup of the FAD-page again in the WIKI on
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADEMEA2007 where all Attendees
> > should fill in their names :-)
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Gerold
> >
> > Am Freitag, den 21.09.2007, 22:34 +0200 schrieb Fabian Affolter:
> > > Gerold Kassube wrote:
> > > > Hello Everybody!
> > > >
> > > > I'm again planing a FAD in November for all European Ambassadors
> > > > in the above mentioned timeframe near to the Swiss border in
> > > > Rheinfelden (next [low-cost-]airport is Basel; Transfer from
> > > > Basel-to Rheinfelden will be organized)
> > > >
> > > > The topics (at this time) are:
> > > > Events 2008
> > > > (covering, attention, needs; budget discussions)
> > > > Non profit organisation
> > > > (what will we do [next?!])
> > > > SWAG
> > > > (Memebership, Webshop, etc.)
> > > > Discussions & Fun, Fun, Fun, Fun ....
> > > >
> > > > When you're willing to attend and be part of this FAD, please
> > > > let me know asap.
> > >
> > > I'll be attending
> > >
> > > Fabian
>
> Ok I'm working on  the trip at the moment and I would like to know if
> the Fedora Project could reimburse the flight to go to Basel for 2
> people.
>
> We would be 2 French people attending (me and Pierre-Yves Chibon)
> and coming by plane is much easier for us as it avoids 7 hours
> driving (10hours for Pierre-Yves).
> Moreover, we would have to come by night on Friday as well as we have
> courses to follow at the university.
>
> Thanks to let me know,
>
> Thomas

And I forgot to ask : where would people sleep ? Is there an hotel
someone plan to order to ? What is the price of a night out there ?

Cheers

Thomas

[pingou]

Thomas Canniot wrote:
> And I forgot to ask : where would people sleep ? Is there an hotel
> someone plan to order to ? What is the price of a night out there ?

Hi,

No one know ??

It would be more than helpful for us to have these informations,
personally I am busy with some courses and I need to plan this week end.

The budget is however my main constraint, having an idea of the prices
for the housing is important if you want to see us there.

However the plane is still the biggest investment on that week end so it
would be very nice if the Fedora Project could help us to come over.

Waiting for a answer,
Best regards,

P.Yves

___________________________________________________________________________ 
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[Gerold]

Hi All,

the accommodation; sleeping etc. will be at www.schloss-beuggen.de ...
Hope this will help you. Have a look at the last FAD which takes place
there (there are also some photos) ...

Regards

Gerold

Am Dienstag, den 23.10.2007, 19:19 +0200 schrieb pingou:
> Thomas Canniot wrote:
> > And I forgot to ask : where would people sleep ? Is there an hotel
> > someone plan to order to ? What is the price of a night out there ?
>
> Hi,
>
> No one know ??
>
> It would be more than helpful for us to have these informations,
> personally I am busy with some courses and I need to plan this week end.
>
> The budget is however my main constraint, having an idea of the prices
> for the housing is important if you want to see us there.
>
> However the plane is still the biggest investment on that week end so it
> would be very nice if the Fedora Project could help us to come over.
>
> Waiting for a answer,
> Best regards,
>
> P.Yves
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________ 
> Yahoo! Mail rinvente le mail ! Dcouvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail et son interface rvolutionnaire.
> http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
>
> --
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> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list

[Gerold]

again me, ...

please excuse :-(

I have reserved a number of rooms which will be ordered directly from
myself (if there are all "other things" cleared and figured out).
So if YOU registered yourself for the FAD, I'll book the room for
you :-)

Regards

Gerold

Am Dienstag, den 23.10.2007, 21:17 +0200 schrieb Gerold Kassube:
> Hi All,
>
> the accommodation; sleeping etc. will be at www.schloss-beuggen.de ...
> Hope this will help you. Have a look at the last FAD which takes place
> there (there are also some photos) ...
>
> Regards
>
> Gerold
>
> Am Dienstag, den 23.10.2007, 19:19 +0200 schrieb pingou:
> > Thomas Canniot wrote:
> > > And I forgot to ask : where would people sleep ? Is there an hotel
> > > someone plan to order to ? What is the price of a night out there ?
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > No one know ??
> >
> > It would be more than helpful for us to have these informations,
> > personally I am busy with some courses and I need to plan this week end.
> >
> > The budget is however my main constraint, having an idea of the prices
> > for the housing is important if you want to see us there.
> >
> > However the plane is still the biggest investment on that week end so it
> > would be very nice if the Fedora Project could help us to come over.
> >
> > Waiting for a answer,
> > Best regards,
> >
> > P.Yves
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________________________ 
> > Yahoo! Mail rinvente le mail ! Dcouvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail et son interface rvolutionnaire.
> > http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > --
> > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>
> --
> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list

[pingou]

Gerold Kassube wrote:
> again me, ...
>
> please excuse :-(
>
> I have reserved a number of rooms which will be ordered directly from
> myself (if there are all "other things" cleared and figured out).
> So if YOU registered yourself for the FAD, I'll book the room for
> you :-)
>
> Regards
>
> Gerold

well actually I would register if I could be sure to come, but as the 
budget is my constraint I can not assume yet whether I come or not.

As soon as we have any news I will let you know, by irc, or here, what I do.

Thanks a lot for your help,
Best regards,

P.Yves Chibon

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[pingou]

pingou wrote:
> Gerold Kassube wrote:
> > again me, ...
> >
> > please excuse :-(
> >
> > I have reserved a number of rooms which will be ordered directly from
> > myself (if there are all "other things" cleared and figured out).
> > So if YOU registered yourself for the FAD, I'll book the room for
> > you :-)
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Gerold
>
> well actually I would register if I could be sure to come, but as the 
> budget is my constraint I can not assume yet whether I come or not.
>
> As soon as we have any news I will let you know, by irc, or here, what I 
> do.

hi all,

I just ask for update here...

I mean the more time we wait, the more expansive the plan ticket are, 
the less chance there are that we can come...

Hope to hear news from you,
Best regards,
P.Yves

___________________________________________________________________________ 
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http://fr.mail.yahoo.com

[Thomas Canniot]

Le Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:42:23 +0100,
pingou  a écrit :
> hi all,
>
> I just ask for update here...
>
> I mean the more time we wait, the more expansive the plan ticket are, 
> the less chance there are that we can come...
>
> Hope to hear news from you,
> Best regards,
> P.Yves

Thanks Pierre-Yves for giving me the offlist answer to the question you
made here.

I would first recommend everyone to use the mailing list for discussing
this subject and avoid personal mails, so as everyone could get
the right info at the right moment.

Then according to what Pierre Yves told me, the FedoraProject offered
ambassadors for the FAD the nights at the hotel, but can't invest in
transportation. That's really disappointing, and we could really wonder
how the FP consider the FAD : For this kind of European meeting, it is
quite ununderstandable that the hotel is offered. I would have offered
the transport (train, car, anyway you want as long as you can justify
it and say before the FAD : "i'm going there and I expect to spend XXX€
there because of the train"). In fact, in Europe and anywhere, what is
very expensive for people is transportation and not sleeping in a hotel.

What do we really need to run a fad ? This question could be rephrased
by : What do we need for people to talk in front of each other, at the
same time and place. The answer is very simple : a table and chairs !
And we found them in most hotels anywhere in Europe. Because what is
important is that people could move, to meet and discuss. Not that the
thickness of the matress they would sleep on :). You can always take a
low cost hotel on you own or ask for some friend / family / local
ambassadors to sleep at their homes, for free or very little money.

What I want to say is that : 
1. We don't need such a luxurious hotel to run the FAD
2. All we need is a table and chairs (most *normal* hotels have them)
3. We need to be reimbursed what *is* expensive : transportation, and
not the hotel
4. Some hotels (low cost and high cost ones) could / should have been
suggested instead of imposing one to the group, and imposing them to
pay for something they can hardly decide of the price.

Finally, I would like to remind everybody that the FedoraProject is
composed of many profiles and I would retain two of them : employees
and students. Thanks to them, you can already understand that they
don't have the same revenue and the same way of life.
Thus, I have to announce you that I don't have 250€ to spend for Fedora.

Once again, I am very disappointed, because one again, I will miss the
fad.

Thomas

[simon]

Hi Thomas,

Am Freitag, 9. November 2007 19:29:20 schrieb Thomas Canniot:
> Thanks to them, you can already understand that they
> don't have the same revenue and the same way of life.

If think the FAD is at the same place then last year - and because there are 
so different people - we sleep at "Schloss Beugen" a evangelic Meeting Place 
open for everybody who will not need "hotel standard" but want clean payable 
rooms and we have a good central infrastructure with Airport Basel
> Thus, I have to announce you that I don't have 250€ to spend for Fedora.
> Once again, I am very disappointed, because one again, I will miss the
> fad.

We are a community - and after your mail - you come is more important then 
ever - because i sense differences that we all need to discuss! 
I will drive by car with Robert (rsc) and I will pick up Chitlesh in 
Strassbourg on my way to FAD. So i have one place left for you - what are 
your costs to come to strassbourg by train - is this a possibility? We will 
find a way - you must come, please!

CU

[Nayyar Ahmad]

Hi Folks,

Please let me know about the following things,

1. Which is the nearest airport to Rheinfelden (As i have to make my
air-tickets)
2. At what time/date we are suppose to meet for the first time.
3. who will be the point of reference for the attendees, we need to have his
number to inform about arrival.
4. Is there any Dress Code etc. for the day? (i still have fedora polo
t-shirt :p)
5. any thing else?
6. Is there any body traveling from Paris? (i want to hang with him if
possible :D)

cheers

On Nov 9, 2007 8:59 PM, JoergSimon  wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
>
> Am Freitag, 9. November 2007 19:29:20 schrieb Thomas Canniot:
> > Thanks to them, you can already understand that they
> > don't have the same revenue and the same way of life.
>
> If think the FAD is at the same place then last year - and because there
> are
> so different people - we sleep at "Schloss Beugen" a evangelic Meeting
> Place
> open for everybody who will not need "hotel standard" but want clean
> payable
> rooms and we have a good central infrastructure with Airport Basel
> > Thus, I have to announce you that I don't have 250€ to spend for Fedora.
> > Once again, I am very disappointed, because one again, I will miss the
> > fad.
>
> We are a community - and after your mail - you come is more important then
> ever - because i sense differences that we all need to discuss!
> I will drive by car with Robert (rsc) and I will pick up Chitlesh in
> Strassbourg on my way to FAD. So i have one place left for you - what are
> your costs to come to strassbourg by train - is this a possibility? We
> will
> find a way - you must come, please!
>
> CU
>
> --
> Jörg Simon
> [e-mail]
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
> Key Fingerprint:
> 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
>
> --
> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list

[Jeroen van Meeuwen]

Nayyar Ahmad wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> Please let me know about the following things,
> Which is the nearest airport to Rheinfelden (As i have to make my
>
> air-tickets)
> 2. At what time/date we are suppose to meet for the first time.
> 3. who will be the point of reference for the attendees, we need to have 
> his number to inform about arrival.
> 4. Is there any Dress Code etc. for the day? (i still have fedora polo 
> t-shirt :p)
> 5. any thing else?
> 6. Is there any body traveling from Paris? (i want to hang with him if 
> possible :D)

I'm traveling via Paris, I'm there from 10:45 (arriving with flight AF 
1241 from Amsterdam) till 11:40 taking flight AF 3284 to Basel.

Kind regards,

Jeroen van Meeuwen
-kanarip

[Gerold]

Dear Mr. Tom and all others,

Am Freitag, den 09.11.2007, 19:29 +0100 schrieb Thomas Canniot:
> Le Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:42:23 +0100,
> pingou  a écrit :
> > hi all,
> >
> > I just ask for update here...
> >
> > I mean the more time we wait, the more expansive the plan ticket are, 
> > the less chance there are that we can come...
> >
> > Hope to hear news from you,
> > Best regards,
> > P.Yves
>
> Thanks Pierre-Yves for giving me the offlist answer to the question you
> made here.
>
> I would first recommend everyone to use the mailing list for discussing
> this subject and avoid personal mails, so as everyone could get
> the right info at the right moment.

^^
Great Mr. Tom,
here you point out to answer to everyone and miscredit myself because I
answers pingou in private and tell *only him* that FP (named: Max
Spevack) is able to help and pays the rooms and breakfast ...
YOU personally answered Joergs demand to have you at the FAD (sended to
the ML as you requested) also in private; a few later than you wrote
this "Hey, we in France don't need a FAD; so why you stupid other
European need" ...
It that the way you like to form national or regional Teams?
> Then according to what Pierre Yves told me, the FedoraProject offered
> ambassadors for the FAD the nights at the hotel, but can't invest in
> transportation. That's really disappointing, and we could really wonder
> how the FP consider the FAD : For this kind of European meeting, it is
> quite ununderstandable that the hotel is offered. I would have offered
> the transport (train, car, anyway you want as long as you can justify
> it and say before the FAD : "i'm going there and I expect to spend XXX€
> there because of the train"). In fact, in Europe and anywhere, what is
> very expensive for people is transportation and not sleeping in a hotel.

^^
What is fair to everyone? The one like to arrange flying, the other
preferes traveling by train or by car ... The other one likes to travel
with others so the way is very, very different how to "arrive" at the
FAD ....
... and this also depends to the costs!
BUT it is always and for everybody the same price for a room to stay
over night.
And from my point of view it is more important to have a full day of
work face-to-face instead of 200 IRC meetings or TelCo-Calls.
To your complain "Why at this f*** guy near to Basel in sh*** Germany
[remark: thats what personally I understand what you're saying
everytime]; It it not my primary duty to organise FADs or fairs near to
my "home" it is because I know a little bit around here ...
... and unfortunately it is also "central" in Europe. We have here
France, Switzerland, Germany as Countrys reachable in 20 minutes! We
have an airport (Basel, Moulhouse, Freiburg), we have a big railway
station BAsel and last but not least we have a high concentration of
(yes I have to say it) German Ambassadors around 200 - 300 kms like
Robert, Jens, Joerg, Florian, Jan, Stefan, Andreas; don't forget ALL
Swiss Ambassadors Fabian, Sandro and the Austrian like Claus or
Oliver ...

FAD is for this people who will attend and are able to help; it is a
"planing and organisational meeting" for the Ambassadors who are willing
to help covering EUROPEAN fairs, Events or whatelse.
Everybody is invited and who is near or far from us to attend and bring
his issues to us as a TEAM!
In this Gremium we decide in which events we want to push our power to
bring fedora forward ...
By gosh, Mr. Tom ...
this is not my private meeting, it is a "come together from EMEAs
Ambassadors"!
> What do we really need to run a fad ? This question could be rephrased
> by : What do we need for people to talk in front of each other, at the
> same time and place. The answer is very simple : a table and chairs !
> And we found them in most hotels anywhere in Europe. Because what is
> important is that people could move, to meet and discuss. Not that the
> thickness of the matress they would sleep on :). You can always take a
> low cost hotel on you own or ask for some friend / family / local
> ambassadors to sleep at their homes, for free or very little money.

^^
see above!
> What I want to say is that :
> We don't need such a luxurious hotel to run the FAD

^^
correct, you can come saturday in the morning (mostly we start WORKING
at 9 or 10 a.m.) and you can leave after we're ready with work at 10 or
11 p.m.; no doubt about ...
But the other attendees want to have to oppurtunity to see and feel
other Ambassadors, their thinking and "tick-ing" and we want to have
also fun, discussion face-to-face
> All we need is a table and chairs (most *normal* hotels have them)

^^
Yes, maybe we are for the "work" somewhere else; at the university of
Basel, in my private house, in a dedicated meeting room; as I told
somewhere .... :-)
> We need to be reimbursed what *is* expensive : transportation, and
>
> not the hotel

^^
could never be handled and is fair to everybody. If you need to be there
or it is important for you to attend and you can't pay for whatever;
(this is for all Ambassadors the same!) ASK Max or the project to help!
> Some hotels (low cost and high cost ones) could / should have been
>
> suggested instead of imposing one to the group, and imposing them to
> pay for something they can hardly decide of the price.

^^
It is up-to-everybody to organise an event (like this) and bring it to
everyones attention to make it better ...
> Finally, I would like to remind everybody that the FedoraProject is
> composed of many profiles and I would retain two of them : employees
> and students. Thanks to them, you can already understand that they
> don't have the same revenue and the same way of life.
> Thus, I have to announce you that I don't have 250€ to spend for Fedora.

^^
It is better not to have a look back what I personally spend out of my
pocket to "help" Fedora with my small support I can give but I'm sure if
I count all and every pence and I ask Max to pay he'll kick me out. And
I'm also sure that there are many more who spend more of their live,
money and power to support Fedora with more than your 250 EUR ...
But if you need it to attend let me know, I'm also able to help and ask
the community to collect the money for you ...
> Once again, I am very disappointed, because one again, I will miss the
> fad.

Fortunately you can attend. It is a pleasure for all of us to have the
President of the french people at the table

Finaly: I am pissed of from this mail and it hurts me personally much
and I feel very unsatisfied when I read such words. I only want to bring
the community, the project and last but not least Fedora forward.
And one person begins to ask basicly question because he don't
understand what we have practiced some times before and begun to
live ...
I have now tried to organize several FADs in Rheinfelden, in Berlin (is
approx. 800 km away); Linuxtag the last two years and much more and you
ask why? Because nobody other will do so or is able to do; I don't know
but from my point of view it is much important to do so; and all
attendees tell me that this is important what I try to do; so either you
like nor you dislike. If you like attend if you dislike stay at home.

Just my five cents

Gerold

[Thomas Canniot]

Le Sat, 10 Nov 2007 10:26:18 +0100,
Gerold Kassube  a écrit :
> Dear Mr. Tom and all others,
> > Thanks Pierre-Yves for giving me the offlist answer to the question
> > you made here.
> >
> > I would first recommend everyone to use the mailing list for
> > discussing this subject and avoid personal mails, so as everyone
> > could get the right info at the right moment.
>
> ^^
> Great Mr. Tom,

Hey Gerold :) How are you doing ?
> here you point out to answer to everyone and miscredit myself because
> I answers pingou in private and tell *only him* that FP (named: Max
> Spevack) is able to help and pays the rooms and breakfast ...
> YOU personally answered Joergs demand to have you at the FAD (sended
> to the ML as you requested) also in private;

Well, it's because I consider that some subjects are personal ones and
that others are private ones. Considering the time and date of my
arrival to Strasburg, I guess most ambassadors don't really mind about
it at all. However, knowing how much the FAD would cost them may
interest *all* the European ambassadors and not pingou alone.  Then
responding to him personnaly, is a kind of a problem as it won't
encourage people to go this FAD, as they don't have all the information
at their disposal to organise their trip.
> a few later than you
> wrote this "Hey, we in France don't need a FAD; so why you stupid
> other European need" ...

I never said such a thing and never insulted any other European
Ambassadors. Maybe I'm not chatty enough to say how much I respect the
work of all the Ambassadors, but you can't make me tell things I never
wrote / said / thought.
> It that the way you like to form national or regional Teams?
> > Then according to what Pierre Yves told me, the FedoraProject
> > offered ambassadors for the FAD the nights at the hotel, but can't
> > invest in transportation. That's really disappointing, and we could
> > really wonder how the FP consider the FAD : For this kind of
> > European meeting, it is quite ununderstandable that the hotel is
> > offered. I would have offered the transport (train, car, anyway you
> > want as long as you can justify it and say before the FAD : "i'm
> > going there and I expect to spend XXX€ there because of the
> > train"). In fact, in Europe and anywhere, what is very expensive
> > for people is transportation and not sleeping in a hotel.
>
> ^^
> What is fair to everyone? The one like to arrange flying, the other
> preferes traveling by train or by car ... The other one likes to
> travel with others so the way is very, very different how to "arrive"
> at the FAD ....
> ... and this also depends to the costs!

I understand this is very subjective, and I agree with you that others
could have prefered the other reimbursement.
> BUT it is always and for everybody the same price for a room to stay
> over night.
> And from my point of view it is more important to have a full day of
> work face-to-face instead of 200 IRC meetings or TelCo-Calls.

Of course it is more efficient and I know it don't worry.
> To your complain "Why at this f*** guy near to Basel in sh*** Germany
> [remark: thats what personally I understand what you're saying
> everytime];

Well then you understand it in a very subjective way. I'm not that
vulgar in real life :)
> It it not my primary duty to organise FADs or fairs near
> to my "home" it is because I know a little bit around here ...
> ... and unfortunately it is also "central" in Europe. We have here
> France, Switzerland, Germany as Countrys reachable in 20 minutes! We
> have an airport (Basel, Moulhouse, Freiburg), we have a big railway
> station BAsel and last but not least we have a high concentration of
> (yes I have to say it) German Ambassadors around 200 - 300 kms like
> Robert, Jens, Joerg, Florian, Jan, Stefan, Andreas; don't forget ALL
> Swiss Ambassadors Fabian, Sandro and the Austrian like Claus or
> Oliver ...

OK then you win here. I personaly don't know the local geography near
Basel and it remains quite difficult to know where ambassadors are
precisely located. In France, we know where is everybody becasue it is
people we chat with everybody. And I agree as well that if I tell you
that Johan is from Douai and Armel from Nantes, it won't ring a bell to
you either.
One of our lackness in France is that most ambassadors are from the
West cost or from the North of France.
> FAD is for this people who will attend and are able to help; it is a
> "planing and organisational meeting" for the Ambassadors who are
> willing to help covering EUROPEAN fairs, Events or whatelse.
> Everybody is invited and who is near or far from us to attend and
> bring his issues to us as a TEAM!
> In this Gremium we decide in which events we want to push our power to
> bring fedora forward ...
> By gosh, Mr. Tom ...
> this is not my private meeting, it is a "come together from EMEAs
> Ambassadors"!

I know :) Then, as it is a series of European meeting, why not have the
organisation of the FAD turning each year ? This year it is in Basel,
next year it could be in Italy, in Poland, in France, in any other
country where people are ready to organise it. That could be
outstanding and even fairer for everybody.
> > What do we really need to run a fad ? This question could be
> > rephrased by : What do we need for people to talk in front of each
> > other, at the same time and place. The answer is very simple : a
> > table and chairs ! And we found them in most hotels anywhere in
> > Europe. Because what is important is that people could move, to
> > meet and discuss. Not that the thickness of the matress they would
> > sleep on :). You can always take a low cost hotel on you own or ask
> > for some friend / family / local ambassadors to sleep at their
> > homes, for free or very little money.
>
> ^^
> see above!
> > What I want to say is that :
> > We don't need such a luxurious hotel to run the FAD
>
> ^^
> correct, you can come saturday in the morning (mostly we start WORKING
> at 9 or 10 a.m.) and you can leave after we're ready with work at 10
> or 11 p.m.; no doubt about ...
> But the other attendees want to have to oppurtunity to see and feel
> other Ambassadors, their thinking and "tick-ing" and we want to have
> also fun, discussion face-to-face

That I will be happy to do as well :)
> > All we need is a table and chairs (most *normal* hotels have
> >
> > them)
>
> ^^
> Yes, maybe we are for the "work" somewhere else; at the university of
> Basel, in my private house, in a dedicated meeting room; as I told
> somewhere .... :-)
> > We need to be reimbursed what *is* expensive : transportation,
> >
> > and not the hotel
>
> ^^
> could never be handled and is fair to everybody. If you need to be
> there or it is important for you to attend and you can't pay for
> whatever; (this is for all Ambassadors the same!) ASK Max or the
> project to help!

Why not actually, but asking for money in a private way is something
that makes me very ill at ease, and this is not really the best way I
would like the FedoraProject be towards Ambassadors (i.e. a cash
machine to pay for people travels). And as Max is already paying for
the hotel, I personaly think that HIS help is not something we should
abuse of.
> > Some hotels (low cost and high cost ones) could / should have
> >
> > been suggested instead of imposing one to the group, and imposing
> > them to pay for something they can hardly decide of the price.
>
> ^^
> It is up-to-everybody to organise an event (like this) and bring it to
> everyones attention to make it better ...

Great then, we should maybe organise a vote on the list or with the
Fedora account system so as to vote for a next organising country
(of course, the last country in the list wouldn't be allowed to run for
the organisation the year after - or more)
> > Finally, I would like to remind everybody that the FedoraProject is
> > composed of many profiles and I would retain two of them : employees
> > and students. Thanks to them, you can already understand that they
> > don't have the same revenue and the same way of life.
> > Thus, I have to announce you that I don't have 250€ to spend for
> > Fedora.
>
> ^^
> It is better not to have a look back what I personally spend out of my
> pocket to "help" Fedora with my small support I can give but I'm sure
> if I count all and every pence and I ask Max to pay he'll kick me
> out. And I'm also sure that there are many more who spend more of
> their live, money and power to support Fedora with more than your 250
> EUR ... But if you need it to attend let me know, I'm also able to
> help and ask the community to collect the money for you ...

Well, I understand that 250€ could represent a little for you, but this
is once again very subjective as it depends on what you earn every
month! I'm a student, I don't work! I can afford the trip, but just
understand that Fedora is not my priority in my monthly budget! 
And about asking the community to pay for my trip, please understand
that I'm not waiting for money from the comunity, but for contribution
that would be much more helpful for the FP.
> > Once again, I am very disappointed, because one again, I will miss
> > the fad.
>
> Fortunately you can attend. It is a pleasure for all of us to have the
> President of the french people at the table

And understand that it will be a pleasure for me to be one of yours.
> Finaly: I am pissed of from this mail and it hurts me personally much
> and I feel very unsatisfied when I read such words. I only want to
> bring the community, the project and last but not least Fedora
> forward. And one person begins to ask basicly question because he
> don't understand what we have practiced some times before and begun to
> live ...

I understand your reaction and I don't criticize your involvement in
any way. I would just have asked more the other Ambassadors about "the
FAD of their dreams". But once again, it is not a reproach you have to
take for yourself, it is just a way of organizing things that you
brought to us silently because nobody was ready or chatty enough to
say what he thougt about this. We CAN organise things in another way
and I would be very glad to help you organise them.
As there were very tiny debates about how to run a FAD, then I'm glad we
can have this discussion with you.
> I have now tried to organize several FADs in Rheinfelden, in Berlin
> (is approx. 800 km away); Linuxtag the last two years and much more
> and you ask why? Because nobody other will do so or is able to do;

Do you want to bet ? ;)
> I  don't know but from my point of view it is much important to do
> so; and all attendees tell me that this is important what I try to
> do; so either you like nor you dislike. If you like attend if you
> dislike stay at home.

see above !
> Just my five cents
>
> Gerold

And my five cents as well :)

Thomas

[Jeroen van Meeuwen]

Thomas Canniot wrote:
> > Just my five cents
> >
> > Gerold
>
> And my five cents as well :)
>
> Thomas

I believe I am one of those examples that coughs up some money to spend 
at travel costs each event I attend, and then coughs up some more to 
spend at staying in a hotel at the event itself.

Latest LinuxTag in Berlin though I must admit I had arranged for my 
employer to pay for the travel costs, and the hotel costs were taken 
care of by Max (thanks!).

Frankly, I must say I don't give a shit about where my money goes, it's 
being spent whether I attend expensive events or travel for a holiday 
(which I haven't done since a couple of years now). What I /do/ care 
about is that I know this money could have been spent elsewhere, or 
better if you will. For that to happen though it is important we all 
meet and exchange ideas and shake hands and get something going.

Only then can we discuss what is a better thing for attendees to 
reimburse and how to generate some revenue in order for us to be able to 
actually reimburse anything.

Just my ~1416,90 euros (for 2007 alone),

Kind regards,

Jeroen van Meeuwen
-kanarip

--
P.S. It's not that I'm making a lot of money or anything, I am Joe 
Average as far as paychecks is concerned.

[Nayyar Ahmad]

Hey Jeroen,

could you imagine participation cost in Linuxtag, Berlin and FAD-EMEA-2007 ,
i have to fly all the way from Mozambique Africa to Germany :)

i am here for fun and to support the idea that inspire me, it would be
certainly very nice if Fedora can afford to reimburse our travling cost (in
fact very indeed for Fedora Ambassadors), but we(me) can't/never stop
supporting our feeling(Fedora)...!

cheers

On Nov 10, 2007 3:48 PM, Jeroen van Meeuwen  wrote:
> Thomas Canniot wrote:
> > > Just my five cents
> > >
> > > Gerold
> >
> > And my five cents as well :)
> >
> > Thomas
>
> I believe I am one of those examples that coughs up some money to spend
> at travel costs each event I attend, and then coughs up some more to
> spend at staying in a hotel at the event itself.
>
> Latest LinuxTag in Berlin though I must admit I had arranged for my
> employer to pay for the travel costs, and the hotel costs were taken
> care of by Max (thanks!).
>
> Frankly, I must say I don't give a shit about where my money goes, it's
> being spent whether I attend expensive events or travel for a holiday
> (which I haven't done since a couple of years now). What I /do/ care
> about is that I know this money could have been spent elsewhere, or
> better if you will. For that to happen though it is important we all
> meet and exchange ideas and shake hands and get something going.
>
> Only then can we discuss what is a better thing for attendees to
> reimburse and how to generate some revenue in order for us to be able to
> actually reimburse anything.
>
> Just my ~1416,90 euros (for 2007 alone),
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jeroen van Meeuwen
> -kanarip
>
> --
> P.S. It's not that I'm making a lot of money or anything, I am Joe
> Average as far as paychecks is concerned.
>
> --
> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list

[Gerold]

omg this is more and more a "flame" and this is my *personaly* last mail
in this issue ....

... the rest will hopefully discussed at a round table somewhere in a
hotel or elsewhere ...

Am Samstag, den 10.11.2007, 14:11 +0100 schrieb Thomas Canniot:
> Le Sat, 10 Nov 2007 10:26:18 +0100,
> Gerold Kassube  a écrit :
> > Dear Mr. Tom and all others,
> > > Thanks Pierre-Yves for giving me the offlist answer to the question
> > > you made here.
> > >
> > > I would first recommend everyone to use the mailing list for
> > > discussing this subject and avoid personal mails, so as everyone
> > > could get the right info at the right moment.
> >
> > ^^
> > Great Mr. Tom,
>
> Hey Gerold :) How are you doing ?

^^
real answer?
Bad, if I have to read your FIRST words regarding my private mail to
pingou ...
> > here you point out to answer to everyone and miscredit myself because
> > I answers pingou in private and tell *only him* that FP (named: Max
> > Spevack) is able to help and pays the rooms and breakfast ...
> > YOU personally answered Joergs demand to have you at the FAD (sended
> > to the ML as you requested) also in private;
>
> Well, it's because I consider that some subjects are personal ones and
> that others are private ones. Considering the time and date of my
> arrival to Strasburg, I guess most ambassadors don't really mind about
> it at all. However, knowing how much the FAD would cost them may
> interest *all* the European ambassadors and not pingou alone.  Then
> responding to him personnaly, is a kind of a problem as it won't
> encourage people to go this FAD, as they don't have all the information
> at their disposal to organise their trip.
> > a few later than you
> > wrote this "Hey, we in France don't need a FAD; so why you stupid
> > other European need" ...
>
> I never said such a thing and never insulted any other European
> Ambassadors. Maybe I'm not chatty enough to say how much I respect the
> work of all the Ambassadors, but you can't make me tell things I never
> wrote / said / thought.

^^
You're right saying that I "... can't make you tell things you never
wrote / said / thought ..."; ...
... But this is really exactly what I readed between the lines in your
mail.
> > It that the way you like to form national or regional Teams?
> > > Then according to what Pierre Yves told me, the FedoraProject
> > > offered ambassadors for the FAD the nights at the hotel, but can't
> > > invest in transportation. That's really disappointing, and we could
> > > really wonder how the FP consider the FAD : For this kind of
> > > European meeting, it is quite ununderstandable that the hotel is
> > > offered. I would have offered the transport (train, car, anyway you
> > > want as long as you can justify it and say before the FAD : "i'm
> > > going there and I expect to spend XXX€ there because of the
> > > train"). In fact, in Europe and anywhere, what is very expensive
> > > for people is transportation and not sleeping in a hotel.
> >
> > ^^
> > What is fair to everyone? The one like to arrange flying, the other
> > preferes traveling by train or by car ... The other one likes to
> > travel with others so the way is very, very different how to "arrive"
> > at the FAD ....
> > ... and this also depends to the costs!
>
> I understand this is very subjective, and I agree with you that others
> could have prefered the other reimbursement.
> > BUT it is always and for everybody the same price for a room to stay
> > over night.
> > And from my point of view it is more important to have a full day of
> > work face-to-face instead of 200 IRC meetings or TelCo-Calls.
>
> Of course it is more efficient and I know it don't worry.

^^
Thank you
> > To your complain "Why at this f*** guy near to Basel in sh*** Germany
> > [remark: thats what personally I understand what you're saying
> > everytime];
>
> Well then you understand it in a very subjective way. I'm not that
> vulgar in real life :)

^^
I think so; as I saw you the first time at the FOSDEM in person; I
believe in you, that you'll never say such words somewhere in public :-)
> > It it not my primary duty to organise FADs or fairs near
> > to my "home" it is because I know a little bit around here ...
> > ... and unfortunately it is also "central" in Europe. We have here
> > France, Switzerland, Germany as Countrys reachable in 20 minutes! We
> > have an airport (Basel, Moulhouse, Freiburg), we have a big railway
> > station BAsel and last but not least we have a high concentration of
> > (yes I have to say it) German Ambassadors around 200 - 300 kms like
> > Robert, Jens, Joerg, Florian, Jan, Stefan, Andreas; don't forget ALL
> > Swiss Ambassadors Fabian, Sandro and the Austrian like Claus or
> > Oliver ...
>
> OK then you win here. I personaly don't know the local geography near
> Basel and it remains quite difficult to know where ambassadors are
> precisely located. In France, we know where is everybody becasue it is
> people we chat with everybody. And I agree as well that if I tell you
> that Johan is from Douai and Armel from Nantes, it won't ring a bell to
> you either.
> One of our lackness in France is that most ambassadors are from the
> West cost or from the North of France.

^^
doesn't matter; the highest concentration of Germany is afaik in the
south ...
> > FAD is for this people who will attend and are able to help; it is a
> > "planing and organisational meeting" for the Ambassadors who are
> > willing to help covering EUROPEAN fairs, Events or whatelse.
> > Everybody is invited and who is near or far from us to attend and
> > bring his issues to us as a TEAM!
> > In this Gremium we decide in which events we want to push our power to
> > bring fedora forward ...
> > By gosh, Mr. Tom ...
> > this is not my private meeting, it is a "come together from EMEAs
> > Ambassadors"!
>
> I know :) Then, as it is a series of European meeting, why not have the
> organisation of the FAD turning each year ? This year it is in Basel,
> next year it could be in Italy, in Poland, in France, in any other
> country where people are ready to organise it. That could be
> outstanding and even fairer for everybody.

^^
Please and once again; have a look in the WIKI at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/ to see the intention of a FAD; as you
can see the Asia have understand and will have their first FAD also ...
It's up to everybody in every region to invite, organise and ask
somebody *official* for help or whatever you need to organise ...
> > > What do we really need to run a fad ? This question could be
> > > rephrased by : What do we need for people to talk in front of each
> > > other, at the same time and place. The answer is very simple : a
> > > table and chairs ! And we found them in most hotels anywhere in
> > > Europe. Because what is important is that people could move, to
> > > meet and discuss. Not that the thickness of the matress they would
> > > sleep on :). You can always take a low cost hotel on you own or ask
> > > for some friend / family / local ambassadors to sleep at their
> > > homes, for free or very little money.
> >
> > ^^
> > see above!
> > > What I want to say is that :
> > > We don't need such a luxurious hotel to run the FAD
> >
> > ^^
> > correct, you can come saturday in the morning (mostly we start WORKING
> > at 9 or 10 a.m.) and you can leave after we're ready with work at 10
> > or 11 p.m.; no doubt about ...
> > But the other attendees want to have to oppurtunity to see and feel
> > other Ambassadors, their thinking and "tick-ing" and we want to have
> > also fun, discussion face-to-face
>
> That I will be happy to do as well :)
> > > All we need is a table and chairs (most *normal* hotels have
> > >
> > > them)
> >
> > ^^
> > Yes, maybe we are for the "work" somewhere else; at the university of
> > Basel, in my private house, in a dedicated meeting room; as I told
> > somewhere .... :-)
> > > We need to be reimbursed what *is* expensive : transportation,
> > >
> > > and not the hotel
> >
> > ^^
> > could never be handled and is fair to everybody. If you need to be
> > there or it is important for you to attend and you can't pay for
> > whatever; (this is for all Ambassadors the same!) ASK Max or the
> > project to help!
>
> Why not actually, but asking for money in a private way is something
> that makes me very ill at ease, and this is not really the best way I
> would like the FedoraProject be towards Ambassadors (i.e. a cash
> machine to pay for people travels). And as Max is already paying for
> the hotel, I personaly think that HIS help is not something we should
> abuse of.

^^
Everything you'll do for FP is your own thing; spending money,
contribute whatever you like, beeing translator, beeing packager,
working in the infrastructure team or whatever (I'm really sure we have
douzends of activity field where everybody finds his own way.
And to be honest; participation at the FAD which I organize is not
mandantory BUT ...
... the history of last years shows us (all) in a direct way that is was
much important to organise things month before and NOT in the last
minute of an event; we practice marketing; we need a budget for our /
Fedoras (and last but not least: RED HAT) events which we like to
cover ...
And we as gremium decide and announce to the Project Leader (named: Max
Spevack) what we need next year for money, where we need him in person
and once again to be honest: WE decides at the FAS in December '06 that
we need Max at FOSDEM. And he made it happen to be there and the event
FOSEDM was really good representated by the EUROPEAN Team and NOT only
from a local Team.
Sorry for that example but it was the best to show, what we can reach
with that goal.

AND ...
everybody who decides to follow (in this case) my invitation for FAD
(once again beside my home), didn't know that I can have a goodie for
him, paying with the Projects help the Rooms. Everybody who registers
was in the meaning that HE has to pay for all, and anyhow he himself as
a free man (or wife) decided:

I am FEDORA

And I have to attend the meeting there near Basel; because it is
important for me, for the project, for us as Team ...
(don't know all personal likeness of every person)

But everybody did! I don't tell everybody: YOU have to come because when
you will not attend you're ..... (decide what you want).
> > > Some hotels (low cost and high cost ones) could / should have
> > >
> > > been suggested instead of imposing one to the group, and imposing
> > > them to pay for something they can hardly decide of the price.
> >
> > ^^
> > It is up-to-everybody to organise an event (like this) and bring it to
> > everyones attention to make it better ...
>
> Great then, we should maybe organise a vote on the list or with the
> Fedora account system so as to vote for a next organising country
> (of course, the last country in the list wouldn't be allowed to run for
> the organisation the year after - or more)

^^
Please excuse; a vote for what?
Please remember, in EMEA we have only ONE COUNTRY organised Group; all
others are in their thinking and behavior and ahndling global or reginal
(EMEA) oriented; but if you like to ...
> > > Finally, I would like to remind everybody that the FedoraProject is
> > > composed of many profiles and I would retain two of them : employees
> > > and students. Thanks to them, you can already understand that they
> > > don't have the same revenue and the same way of life.
> > > Thus, I have to announce you that I don't have 250€ to spend for
> > > Fedora.
> >
> > ^^
> > It is better not to have a look back what I personally spend out of my
> > pocket to "help" Fedora with my small support I can give but I'm sure
> > if I count all and every pence and I ask Max to pay he'll kick me
> > out. And I'm also sure that there are many more who spend more of
> > their live, money and power to support Fedora with more than your 250
> > EUR ... But if you need it to attend let me know, I'm also able to
> > help and ask the community to collect the money for you ...
>
> Well, I understand that 250€ could represent a little for you,

^^
OK, if you want to discuss this really private issue:
I am fortytwo years old; I am married since 14 years; I have three
children aged 14, 12 and 10; I have a dog, two cars, a house and many,
many, many outstanding debts at my bank.
Fortunately I have a job, be healthy (more or less) and have every year
a two week hoiliday (together with my parents because of cost
sharing) ...
To fly to Berlin (for Linuxtag); to travel to Bruxelles (for FOSDEM); to
travel to Stuttgart (for meeting with other Ambassadors) or have
telephone calls costs me more than sometimes my family is knowing and by
gosh ...
Fedora is (for me) much more than a OS 
Fedora is independance, is living free of patents and it is a kind of
philosophy ...
> but this
> is once again very subjective as it depends on what you earn every
> month! I'm a student, I don't work!

^^
in the time I studied; I have to pay alone for my life; don't know how
you can live without "working" ...
Me had to; many, many, many years ago ....
> I can afford the trip, but just
> understand that Fedora is not my priority in my monthly budget! 
> And about asking the community to pay for my trip, please understand
> that I'm not waiting for money from the comunity, but for contribution
> that would be much more helpful for the FP.

^^
If the Ambassador don't organise events or know each other and meet only
on events I'm sure the events were sometimes a big desaster. Have a look
at the biggest Event in Europe LINUXTAG in Germany; more that 10.000
visitors ...
will you organise programm and the fair by IRC; all things which has to
be prepared (Flyers, Banners, swag etc.)???
If you have to be part of the Team, OUR European Team will help also YOU
if you need support., doesn't matter in which issue. Ask our indish
friend kushal das how we supported him ...
> > > Once again, I am very disappointed, because one again, I will miss
> > > the fad.
> >
> > Fortunately you can attend. It is a pleasure for all of us to have the
> > President of the french people at the table
>
> And understand that it will be a pleasure for me to be one of yours.

^^
Than please act as one ...
> > Finaly: I am pissed of from this mail and it hurts me personally much
> > and I feel very unsatisfied when I read such words. I only want to
> > bring the community, the project and last but not least Fedora
> > forward. And one person begins to ask basicly question because he
> > don't understand what we have practiced some times before and begun to
> > live ...
>
> I understand your reaction and I don't criticize your involvement in
> any way. I would just have asked more the other Ambassadors about "the
> FAD of their dreams".

^^
Mr. Tom; everybody who knows me more than a minute knows that I am a
person who wants every time the best for every one and I am also a
person who is "fighting" for others ...
Please believe me; you'll never get all persons under one hat :-(
> But once again, it is not a reproach you have to
> take for yourself, it is just a way of organizing things that you
> brought to us silently because nobody was ready or chatty enough to
> say what he thougt about this.

^^
EVERY Ambassador who was listed in the Fedora System at 2007-09-15!
That's the date I informed the ML of organizing again a FAD in
November ...
On September 16th, every person listed in the ML (with an E-Mail
address) has got a private E-Mail with his invitation in English and
German (Sorry my french is more than 20 years gone) ...
So I can't accept here: ... brought to us silent ...
I was loud enough; and that more as once!
> We CAN organise things in another way
> and I would be very glad to help you organise them.
> As there were very tiny debates about how to run a FAD, then I'm glad we
> can have this discussion with you.

^^
Don't talk; do it ...
> > I have now tried to organize several FADs in Rheinfelden, in Berlin
> > (is approx. 800 km away); Linuxtag the last two years and much more
> > and you ask why? Because nobody other will do so or is able to do;
>
> Do you want to bet ? ;)

^^
You'll loose! I had several conversations with Ambassadors in the area
of Stuttgart; but nobody has had the time to organize something; so I
did it myself ...
> > I  don't know but from my point of view it is much important to do
> > so; and all attendees tell me that this is important what I try to
> > do; so either you like nor you dislike. If you like attend if you
> > dislike stay at home.
>
> see above !
> > Just my five cents
> >
> > Gerold
>
> And my five cents as well :)
>
> Thomas

^^
So with my last 5 there are already 15 cents inside. Do you need them
for traveling?

Gerold

PS: this is really my last "message" to that issue; promised!

[Thomas Canniot]

Le Sat, 10 Nov 2007 23:45:18 +0100,
Gerold Kassube  a écrit :
> omg this is more and more a "flame" and this is my *personaly* last
> mail in this issue ....

That's too bad because I don't see it as such. :(
> ... the rest will hopefully discussed at a round table somewhere in a
> hotel or elsewhere ...

No problem.

Cheers

Thomas

[Francesco Ugolini]

I won't to join the discussion because I couldn't express anything new that
was just said.

I want, instead, to say few words about the great experience I had with
German's ambassadors (in particular with some of them) and the reason I
think they have to continue organizing FAD EMEA as well as they have done in
the past and in the present.

Wherever there was an event they were there (see FOSDEM in Brussels, where
the most spoken language is French), not only, they were the first who start
a discussion for a "European Ambassador entity", don't seeing at the aspect
but working for facts.

I personally have to thank them for their help, their suggestion and their
trust: I think they are a point of reference for everyone.

At least but not last, I had to remember the past FAD EMEA where people
really work hard to write proposals to improve the project and trying really
to make this better.

Remember: it's not the place where we organize an event that makes this a
good one but the people who join this one.

Best regards

Francesco Ugolini

P.s. please don't reply to this mail, I think the discussion needs a point.

[Jeroen van Meeuwen]

Gerold Kassube wrote:
> again me, ...
>
> please excuse :-(
>
> I have reserved a number of rooms which will be ordered directly from
> myself (if there are all "other things" cleared and figured out).
> So if YOU registered yourself for the FAD, I'll book the room for
> you :-)

^^ LOL, I did!, register for the FAD. Nice work, thanks! ;-)
> Regards
>
> Gerold
>
> Am Dienstag, den 23.10.2007, 21:17 +0200 schrieb Gerold Kassube:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > the accommodation; sleeping etc. will be at www.schloss-beuggen.de ...
> > Hope this will help you. Have a look at the last FAD which takes place
> > there (there are also some photos) ...
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Gerold
> >
> > Am Dienstag, den 23.10.2007, 19:19 +0200 schrieb pingou:
> > > Thomas Canniot wrote:
> > > > And I forgot to ask : where would people sleep ? Is there an hotel
> > > > someone plan to order to ? What is the price of a night out there ?
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > No one know ??
> > >
> > > It would be more than helpful for us to have these informations,
> > > personally I am busy with some courses and I need to plan this week end.
> > >
> > > The budget is however my main constraint, having an idea of the prices
> > > for the housing is important if you want to see us there.
> > >
> > > However the plane is still the biggest investment on that week end so it
> > > would be very nice if the Fedora Project could help us to come over.
> > >
> > > Waiting for a answer,
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > P.Yves
> > >
> > > ___________________________________________________________________________ 
> > > Yahoo! Mail rinvente le mail ! Dcouvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail et son interface rvolutionnaire.
> > > http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
> > >
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> >
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> >
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