Re: [Ambassadors] Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Dienstag, den 19.10.2010, 00:09 -0700 schrieb Jesse Keating:
>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  Hash: SHA1
>  
>  On 10/19/2010 12:01 AM, Christoph Wickert wrote:
>  > Am Montag, den 18.10.2010, 20:35 -0700 schrieb Jesse Keating:
>  > 
>  >> There is not going to be a TC2.  We are moving on to RC.  
>  > 
>  > Is this process documented in the wiki somewhere?
>  
>  http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-14/f-14-releng-tasks.html
>  is probably the best place, which was linked to from
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Schedule 
The list only memtions the Tc, but nether TC1 and TC2 not the fact that
TC2 does not include live media.

>  >> It is FAR too
>  >> late to be introducing technology that needs to be tested and planned
>  >> for at this stage in the release cycle.
>  > 
>  > The only thing that needs testing is the boot menu. The rest is taken
>  > care of by the normal spins/desktop testing we already do and did.
>  
>  That's still something that needs testing, needs a testing plan, needs
>  coordination.  Not something that can easily be slapped together in the
>  less than one week since the concept became visible here. 
What is there to test for a boot menu? What would a test plan look like.
Boot all menu entries and you are done.

>  >> I still haven't seen any plan for how to handle our
> source obligation.
>  > 
>  > I cannot give you a plan if nobody outlines the obligations to me. 
>  
>  You need to speak to Fedora legal to figure out what your obligations are. 
I have written them but no reply so far.

>  > Why is the DVD different than the other spins?
>  
>  All the other things the project produces are made available on the
>  website in binary form, alongside the source.  It is not clear to me if
>  your combined media set will be made available online in any way.   
In my first email I wrote: 

>  > Given that [...]
>  >       * we have download location for the image on Fedora 
>  > infrastructure
>  >      * we put a readme on the spin whith the download location of 
>  >        the SRPMs 
Is there anything unclear about it?

>  It is
>  not clear to me if a binary aggregate of all the spins can be satisfied
>  by the sources we have online.  It is not clear to me what method of
>  GPLv2 source obligations you will be using when distributing these
>  binary offerings. 
This sounds a little vague to me. Can you please outline your concerns a
little deeper? AFAICS they apply to the other spins too as they also
have a boot menu.

What is the difference between shipping 8 single media and one dual
layer DVD? The only difference is the boot menu. 

Please correct me if I'm wrong,
Christoph

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[David Ramsey]

Hello Everyone,



Greetings. :)

The Multi-Desktop DVD sounds wonderful.  I would love to see a prototype, too.  :)

>  The list only memtions the Tc, but nether TC1 and TC2 not the fact
> that
>  TC2 does not include live media.
>  
>  > >> It is FAR too
>  > >> late to be introducing technology that needs to be tested and planned
>  > >> for at this stage in the release cycle.
>  > > 
>  > > The only thing that needs testing is the boot menu. The rest is taken
>  > > care of by the normal spins/desktop testing we already do and did.
>  > 
>  > That's still something that needs testing, needs a testing plan, needs
>  > coordination.  Not something that can easily be slapped together in the
>  > less than one week since the concept became visible here.
>  
>  What is there to test for a boot menu? What would a test plan look like.
>  Boot all menu entries and you are done. 
I was doing some of the Fedora 14 TC1 Testing for Desktop and Installation.  :)

The "Test Results:Fedora 14 Final TC1 Desktop" -

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Current_Desktop_Test

I do not know if the Release Level Column labeled as "Final" would be useful to
see for "Desktop, KDE, Xfce, and LXDE."

=================================


Also, I look forward to contributing and seeing how the Fedora 14 Final RC Testing goes
myself.  :)

Category:Fedora 14 Final RC Test Results -

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Fedora_14_Final_RC_Test_Results

Test Results:Fedora 14 Final RC1 Desktop -

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_14_Final_RC1_Desktop

Test Results:Fedora 14 Final RC1 Install -

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_14_Final_RC1_Install

=================================

Sending positive Fedora 13 and Fedora 14 energy to your computer now.  :v)



Please have a great day and/or evening! :~)



Thank You

Sincerely

=-=-=-=-=

- David -

=-=-=-=-=

David Ramsey

---------------------------------

猿も木から落ちる
さるもきからおちる

Even monkeys fall from trees.

Even experts make mistakes.

=

Fedora Project's Japan & Maryland Ambassador dramsey(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Dramsey

* Two (2) dual core systems with 3.0 GB of RAM running the Fedora 12 
(Constantine) kernel - 2.6.32.12-115.fc12.i686.PAE

* Two (2) dual core systems with 3.0 GB of RAM running the Fedora 13 
(Goddard) kernel - 2.6.33.5-131.fc13.i686.PAE

* Two (2) dual core systems with 3.0 GB of RAM running the Fedora 13 
(Goddard) and Security Spin kernel - 2.6.33.5-112.fc13.i686.PAE
* Two (2)  dual core systems with 3.0 GB of RAM running the Fedora 14 (Laughlin)
kernel - 2.6.35.6-46.fc14.i686.PAE

* One (1) dual core system with 3.0 GB of RAM running the Red Hat 6 
(Beta) kernel - 2.6.32-19.el6.i686

With eight (8) x86_64 computing cores, 16 GB of RAM and four SATA 
Seagate 7200.12 - 500 GB harddisks.

=

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Christopher Hawker]

Hello All,

For the boot menu, would it not be more simple to have something like

* Boot Fedora Live
* Install Fedora KDE
* Install Fedora LXDE
* Install Fedora XFCE
* Verify media

Regards,
Christopher Hawker

Mobile: [phone]



2010/10/21 David Ramsey <diamond_ramsey(a)hotmail.com&gt;

>   Hello Everyone,
>
>  Greetings. :)
>
>  The Multi-Desktop DVD sounds wonderful.  I would love to see a prototype,
>  too.  :)
>
>
>  > The list only memtions the Tc, but nether TC1 and TC2 not the fact that
>  > TC2 does not include live media.
>  >
>  > > >> It is FAR too
>  > > >> late to be introducing technology that needs to be tested and
>  planned
>  > > >> for at this stage in the release cycle.
>  > > >
>  > > > The only thing that needs testing is the boot menu. The rest is taken
>  > > > care of by the normal spins/desktop testing we already do and did.
>  > >
>  > > That's still something that needs testing, needs a testing plan, needs
>  > > coordination. Not something that can easily be slapped together in the
>  > > less than one week since the concept became visible here.
>  >
>  > What is there to test for a boot menu? What would a test plan look like.
>  > Boot all menu entries and you are done.
>
>  I was doing some of the Fedora 14 TC1 Testing for Desktop and
>  Installation.  :)
>
>  The "Test Results:Fedora 14 Final TC1 Desktop" -
>
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Current_Desktop_Test
>
>  I do not know if the Release Level Column labeled as "Final" would be
>  useful to see for "Desktop, KDE, Xfce, and LXDE."
>
>  =================================
>
>  Also, I look forward to contributing and seeing how the Fedora 14 Final RC
>  Testing goes myself.  :)
>
>  Category:Fedora 14 Final RC Test Results -
>
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Fedora_14_Final_RC_Test_Results
>
>  Test Results:Fedora 14 Final RC1 Desktop -
>
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_14_Final_RC1_Desktop
>
>  Test Results:Fedora 14 Final RC1 Install -
>
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_14_Final_RC1_Install
>
>  =================================
>
>  Sending positive Fedora 13 and Fedora 14 energy to your computer now.  :v)
>
>  Please have a great day and/or evening! :~)
>
>  Thank You
>  Sincerely
>  =-=-=-=-=
>  - David -
>  =-=-=-=-=
>  David Ramsey
>  ---------------------------------
>  猿も木から落ちる
>  さるもきからおちる
>  Even monkeys fall from trees.
>  Even experts make mistakes.
>  =
>  Fedora Project's Japan & Maryland Ambassador dramsey(a)fedoraproject.org
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Dramsey
>  * Two (2) dual core systems with 3.0 GB of RAM running the Fedora 12
>  (Constantine) kernel - 2.6.32.12-115.fc12.i686.PAE
>  * Two (2) dual core systems with 3.0 GB of RAM running the Fedora 13
>  (Goddard) kernel - 2.6.33.5-131.fc13.i686.PAE
>  * Two (2) dual core systems with 3.0 GB of RAM running the Fedora 13
>  (Goddard) and Security Spin kernel - 2.6.33.5-112.fc13.i686.PAE
>  * Two (2) dual core systems with 3.0 GB of RAM running the Fedora 14
>  (Laughlin) kernel - 2.6.35.6-46.fc14.i686.PAE
>  * One (1) dual core system with 3.0 GB of RAM running the Red Hat 6 (Beta)
>  kernel - 2.6.32-19.el6.i686
>  With eight (8) x86_64 computing cores, 16 GB of RAM and four SATA Seagate
>  7200.12 - 500 GB harddisks.
>  =
>
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Sascha Thomas Spreitzer]

>  The Multi-Desktop DVD sounds wonderful.  I would love to see a
> prototype,
>  too.  :) 
http://sspreitzer.fedorapeople.org/torrents/Fedora-14-Live-multi-TC1.torrent

peace,
Sascha

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Donnerstag, den 21.10.2010, 21:22 +1100 schrieb Christopher Hawker:
>  Hello All,
>  
>  For the boot menu, would it not be more simple to have something like
>  
>  * Boot Fedora Live
>  * Install Fedora KDE
>  * Install Fedora LXDE
>  * Install Fedora XFCE 
s/Install/Boot

>  * Verify media 
We are testing the different images on the media but not the media
itself.

Regards,
Christoph

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Brandon Lozza]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Christoph Wickert
<christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Am Donnerstag, den 21.10.2010, 21:22 +1100 schrieb Christopher
> Hawker:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > For the boot menu, would it not be more simple to have something like
> >
> > * Boot Fedora Live
> > * Install Fedora KDE
> > * Install Fedora LXDE
> > * Install Fedora XFCE
>
>  s/Install/Boot
>
> > * Verify media
>  
Hi, i'm new here and I wanted to share some of my ideas.

It's perfectly valid to want to both verify, live boot and install all
the alternative desktops. Not everyone wants to use Gnome. It should
also be clearly labeled as such because "Live" by itself is
meaningless. Also, stating Fedora  a bunch of times is redundant. I
suggest the following for the boot menu:

Boot Fedora Desktop Live
Boot Fedora KDE Live
Boot Fedora LXDE Live
Boot Fedora XFCE Live

Install Fedora Desktop
Install Fedora KDE
Install Fedora LXDE
Install Fedora XFCE

Verify.... etc (list each)

A user who has a copy of a multi spin disk shouldn't be surprised that
their boot menu has a lot of options. We can't leave them off without
reducing functionality and this disk shouldn't have less functionality
than each of the individual LiveCDs.

Also Is there any possibility of using sub menus in grub? Such that
you only see a few options and when you select KDE for example, it
asks if you want to Boot, Install or Verify the image?

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Gregory Fenton]

Question: Can grub have submenus?
Answer: Yes.

From
http://jbakshi.50webs.com/Linux_tutorial/GRUB/GNU%20GRUB%20simplified.html

>  Creating Submenu !!! Yes it is possible :-) 
Suppose the submenu file is called submenu.lst and located at /boot/grub

We can call this submenu by placing the configuration below in menu.lst

 # calling submenu

title Sub-menu

configfile (hd0,2)/boot/grub/submenu.lst

In submenu.lst file we must have the configuration to come back to the main
>  menu. Below is such an example 
 # submenu.lst file

# Go to main menu

title Main-menu

configfile (hd0,2)/boot/grub/menu.lst


On 21 October 2010 14:35, Brandon Lozza <brandon(a)pwnage.ca&gt; wrote:

>  On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Christoph Wickert
>  <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > Am Donnerstag, den 21.10.2010, 21:22 +1100 schrieb Christopher Hawker:
>  >> Hello All,
>  >>
>  >> For the boot menu, would it not be more simple to have something like
>  >>
>  >> * Boot Fedora Live
>  >> * Install Fedora KDE
>  >> * Install Fedora LXDE
>  >> * Install Fedora XFCE
>  >
>  > s/Install/Boot
>  >
>  >> * Verify media
>  >
>  Hi, i'm new here and I wanted to share some of my ideas.
>
>  It's perfectly valid to want to both verify, live boot and install all
>  the alternative desktops. Not everyone wants to use Gnome. It should
>  also be clearly labeled as such because "Live" by itself is
>  meaningless. Also, stating Fedora  a bunch of times is redundant. I
>  suggest the following for the boot menu:
>
>  Boot Fedora Desktop Live
>  Boot Fedora KDE Live
>  Boot Fedora LXDE Live
>  Boot Fedora XFCE Live
>
>  Install Fedora Desktop
>  Install Fedora KDE
>  Install Fedora LXDE
>  Install Fedora XFCE
>
>  Verify.... etc (list each)
>
>  A user who has a copy of a multi spin disk shouldn't be surprised that
>  their boot menu has a lot of options. We can't leave them off without
>  reducing functionality and this disk shouldn't have less functionality
>  than each of the individual LiveCDs.
>
>  Also Is there any possibility of using sub menus in grub? Such that
>  you only see a few options and when you select KDE for example, it
>  asks if you want to Boot, Install or Verify the image?
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Brandon Lozza]

2010/10/21 Gregory Fenton <fedora(a)fedoradvds.com&gt;:
>  Question: Can grub have submenus?
>  Answer: Yes. 
Then why not have:

Fedora Desktop
Fedora KDE
Fedora XFCE
Fedora LXCE

then when you choose one it expands into the following for each,
replace $desktop with KDE, etc.

$desktop LiveCD
$desktop Install
$desktop Verifiy Media
Go back

I think this would make it less scary, but the options shouldn't be
left out for the alternatives. It just reeks of gnome less is more
policy.

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Christian Jantz]

I'd do it the other way around. Specially new members insert the disk,
boot and then want to know where they can test the system using the live
version.
Your variant could lead to the impression that it boots/installs
directly after you select your spin and hit enter, not that there is a
submenu.

So long
Am 21.10.2010 15:56, schrieb Brandon Lozza:
>  2010/10/21 Gregory Fenton <fedora(a)fedoradvds.com&gt;:
> > Question: Can grub have submenus?
> > Answer: Yes.
>  
>  Then why not have:
>  
>  Fedora Desktop
>  Fedora KDE
>  Fedora XFCE
>  Fedora LXCE
>  
>  then when you choose one it expands into the following for each,
>  replace $desktop with KDE, etc.
>  
>  $desktop LiveCD
>  $desktop Install
>  $desktop Verifiy Media
>  Go back
>  
>  I think this would make it less scary, but the options shouldn't be
>  left out for the alternatives. It just reeks of gnome less is more
>  policy.
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Christopher Hawker]

Hello Christoph,

(forgive me if i soind a little bit dumb here), but would it not be
better to have a boot option which allows you to check the integrity
of the disk so if you are doing an install, you can run an integrity
check so you do not end up with a bad install incase the media is
faulty?

On 21/10/2010, Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Am Donnerstag, den 21.10.2010, 21:22 +1100 schrieb Christopher
> Hawker:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > For the boot menu, would it not be more simple to have something like
> >
> > * Boot Fedora Live
> > * Install Fedora KDE
> > * Install Fedora LXDE
> > * Install Fedora XFCE
>
>  s/Install/Boot
>
> > * Verify media
>
>  We are testing the different images on the media but not the media
>  itself.
>
>  Regards,
>  Christoph
>
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  

-- 
Regards,
Christopher Hawker
IT Kingdom

1048 The Horsley Drive
Wetherill Park
NSW 2164
AUSTRALIA

Mobile: [phone]

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Brandon Lozza]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Christopher Hawker
<christopher.hawker(a)itkingdom.com.au&gt; wrote:
>  Hello Christoph,
>
>  (forgive me if i soind a little bit dumb here), but would it not be
>  better to have a boot option which allows you to check the integrity
>  of the disk so if you are doing an install, you can run an integrity
>  check so you do not end up with a bad install incase the media is
>  faulty?
>  
+1

I think all the spins should be treated equally in regards to booting
livecd and verification. Sub menus were also mentioned. Perhaps we can
do both?

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Christopher Hawker]

Sub menus would be perfect for this, I believe. Make it less cluttered and
more categorised into various desktops.

Regards,
Christopher Hawker

Mobile: [phone]



On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Brandon Lozza <brandon(a)pwnage.ca&gt; wrote:

>  On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Christopher Hawker
>  <christopher.hawker(a)itkingdom.com.au&gt; wrote:
>  > Hello Christoph,
>  >
>  > (forgive me if i soind a little bit dumb here), but would it not be
>  > better to have a boot option which allows you to check the integrity
>  > of the disk so if you are doing an install, you can run an integrity
>  > check so you do not end up with a bad install incase the media is
>  > faulty?
>  >
>
>  +1
>
>  I think all the spins should be treated equally in regards to booting
>  livecd and verification. Sub menus were also mentioned. Perhaps we can
>  do both?
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>