How to contact the Ambassadors

[Brian Exelbierd]

For the third time I have been approached by someone trying to contact
"the Ambassadors."

I am not sure if the answer I am providing is correct.  I am suggesting
the following procedure.  I am not happy with it because it is very
complicated and full of friction.  I am also worried that because I made
it up, it is wrong.  I haven't found a simple "contact us" page that
seems to make this clear to me.  Where is it?  I figure I've missed it.

This is what I have suggested:

1. Go to
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
and contact ambassadors from your region/country.  You may need to
contact everyone because some people are busy or otherwise not able to
answer email.

2. Open a ticket in one of the regional pagure queues or with FAmSCo.

3. Try to post to the ambassadors@fp.o list.  I don't think this will
work for you as I believe it has restricted membership.

This is a whole lot of work for someone who wants to contact our people.
 What is the easy method I am overlooking?

regards,

bex

[Sachin S. Kamath]

On Wed 9 Aug, 2017, 2:13 PM Brian Exelbierd,  wrote:
> For the third time I have been approached by someone trying to contact
> "the Ambassadors."
>
> I am not sure if the answer I am providing is correct.  I am suggesting
> the following procedure.  I am not happy with it because it is very
> complicated and full of friction.  I am also worried that because I made
> it up, it is wrong.  I haven't found a simple "contact us" page that
> seems to make this clear to me.  Where is it?  I figure I've missed it.
>
> This is what I have suggested:
> Go to
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
> and contact ambassadors from your region/country.  You may need to
> contact everyone because some people are busy or otherwise not able to
> answer email.
>
> Open a ticket in one of the regional pagure queues or with FAmSCo.
>
> Try to post to the ambassadors@fp.o list.  I don't think this will
>
> work for you as I believe it has restricted membership.

Instead of the mailing list, I usually point people to  #fedora-ambassadors
 or the regional IRC channel if there's one.
> This is a whole lot of work for someone who wants to contact our people.
>  What is the easy method I am overlooking?
>
> regards,
>
> bex
> _______________________________________________
> ambassadors mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[sankarshan]

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Brian Exelbierd  wrote:
> For the third time I have been approached by someone trying to contact
> "the Ambassadors."
>
> I am not sure if the answer I am providing is correct.  I am suggesting
> the following procedure.  I am not happy with it because it is very
> complicated and full of friction.  I am also worried that because I made
> it up, it is wrong.  I haven't found a simple "contact us" page that
> seems to make this clear to me.  Where is it?  I figure I've missed it.
>
> This is what I have suggested:
> Go to
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
> and contact ambassadors from your region/country.  You may need to
> contact everyone because some people are busy or otherwise not able to
> answer email.

At this moment, that URL above is perhaps the best way (short of
writing in to a region list and asking an Ambassador to get back) to
reach out.

[Brian Exelbierd]

Perhaps we should collect these ideas into an easy to parse web page we
can put on getfedora.org and whatcanidoforfedora.org ?

regards,

bex

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017, at 10:54 AM, sankarshan wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Brian Exelbierd  wrote:
> > For the third time I have been approached by someone trying to contact
> > "the Ambassadors."
> >
> > I am not sure if the answer I am providing is correct.  I am suggesting
> > the following procedure.  I am not happy with it because it is very
> > complicated and full of friction.  I am also worried that because I made
> > it up, it is wrong.  I haven't found a simple "contact us" page that
> > seems to make this clear to me.  Where is it?  I figure I've missed it.
> >
> > This is what I have suggested:
> > Go to
> >
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
> > and contact ambassadors from your region/country.  You may need to
> > contact everyone because some people are busy or otherwise not able to
> > answer email.
>
> At this moment, that URL above is perhaps the best way (short of
> writing in to a region list and asking an Ambassador to get back) to
> reach out.
>
> -- 
> sankarshan mukhopadhyay
> http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog/
> _______________________________________________
> ambassadors mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[Robert Mayr]

2017-08-09 11:44 GMT+02:00 Brian Exelbierd :
> Perhaps we should collect these ideas into an easy to parse web page we
> can put on getfedora.org and whatcanidoforfedora.org ?
>
> regards,
>
> bex
>
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017, at 10:54 AM, sankarshan wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Brian Exelbierd  wrote:
> > > For the third time I have been approached by someone trying to contact
> > > "the Ambassadors."
> > >
> > > I am not sure if the answer I am providing is correct.  I am suggesting
> > > the following procedure.  I am not happy with it because it is very
> > > complicated and full of friction.  I am also worried that because I
>
> made
> > > it up, it is wrong.  I haven't found a simple "contact us" page that
> > > seems to make this clear to me.  Where is it?  I figure I've missed it.
> > >
> > > This is what I have suggested:
> > > Go to
> > >
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/
>
> MembershipService/Verification
> > > and contact ambassadors from your region/country.  You may need to
> > > contact everyone because some people are busy or otherwise not able to
> > > answer email.
> >
> > At this moment, that URL above is perhaps the best way (short of
> > writing in to a region list and asking an Ambassador to get back) to
> > reach out.
> >
> > --
> > sankarshan mukhopadhyay
> > http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog/
> > _______________________________________________
> > ambassadors mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.
>
> fedoraproject.org
> _______________________________________________
> ambassadors mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

Yes, the best option is the first one you mentioned:
> > Go to
> >
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/

MembershipService/Verification
> > and contact ambassadors from your region/country.  You may need to
> > contact everyone because some people are busy or otherwise not able to
> > answer email.

Opening tickets in pagure is quite difficult for a newbie, because he
doesn't even know how Regions are called and what FAmSCo is.
A FAmSCo ticket is definitely wrong here.
I also would direct him to IRC, although even that is rather tricky if you
are not comfortable with this kind of communication.

getfedora.org and whatcanidoforfedora.org are also not ideal, this kind of
information and a "contact" (template?) could and will probably be part of
Fedora Hubs.
The Ambassador team hub will have this possibility of interaction with new
users and contributors.
I really hope we can get live with something (even if ready only partially)
very soon, there is a real need of Hubs.

Regards.

[Eduard Lucena]

Hi all,

If a link is needed, the better idea is to point people to
http://fedoracommunity.org, they should be able to identify their own
region in the map. But it looks a little outdated, a lot of the links point
to getfedora.org directly, IMHO, this site should be our "contact us", but
it needs some love.

Br,

2017-08-09 10:52 GMT-04:00 Robert Mayr :
> 2017-08-09 11:44 GMT+02:00 Brian Exelbierd :
> > Perhaps we should collect these ideas into an easy to parse web page we
> > can put on getfedora.org and whatcanidoforfedora.org ?
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > bex
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017, at 10:54 AM, sankarshan wrote:
> > > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Brian Exelbierd  wrote:
> > > > For the third time I have been approached by someone trying to contact
> > > > "the Ambassadors."
> > > >
> > > > I am not sure if the answer I am providing is correct.  I am
> >
> > suggesting
> > > > the following procedure.  I am not happy with it because it is very
> > > > complicated and full of friction.  I am also worried that because I
> >
> > made
> > > > it up, it is wrong.  I haven't found a simple "contact us" page that
> > > > seems to make this clear to me.  Where is it?  I figure I've missed
> >
> > it.
> > > > This is what I have suggested:
> > > > Go to
> > > >
> > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService
> >
> > /Verification
> > > > and contact ambassadors from your region/country.  You may need to
> > > > contact everyone because some people are busy or otherwise not able to
> > > > answer email.
> > >
> > > At this moment, that URL above is perhaps the best way (short of
> > > writing in to a region list and asking an Ambassador to get back) to
> > > reach out.
> > >
> > > --
> > > sankarshan mukhopadhyay
> > > http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > ambassadors mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> >
> > project.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > ambassadors mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
>
> Yes, the best option is the first one you mentioned:
> > > Go to
> > >
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipServi
>
> ce/Verification
> > > and contact ambassadors from your region/country.  You may need to
> > > contact everyone because some people are busy or otherwise not able to
> > > answer email.
>
> Opening tickets in pagure is quite difficult for a newbie, because he
> doesn't even know how Regions are called and what FAmSCo is.
> A FAmSCo ticket is definitely wrong here.
> I also would direct him to IRC, although even that is rather tricky if you
> are not comfortable with this kind of communication.
>
> getfedora.org and whatcanidoforfedora.org are also not ideal, this kind
> of information and a "contact" (template?) could and will probably be part
> of Fedora Hubs.
> The Ambassador team hub will have this possibility of interaction with new
> users and contributors.
> I really hope we can get live with something (even if ready only
> partially) very soon, there is a real need of Hubs.
>
> Regards.
>
> --
> Robert Mayr
> (robyduck)
>
> ambassadors mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[Zoltan Hoppar]

Hi Robert,

I think for mentors we need an simplified website where people can follow
the mentoring status, and possible candidates can see the available
mentors. I also suggest a predefined amount of candidates (slots for
candidates) for mentors... I know that HUBs are coming, and that will be
the main target, but instead of ticketing - wouldn't be possible to hack a
such site for temporarily?

​Zoltan​
> ambassadors mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[Brian Exelbierd]

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017, at 04:52 PM, Robert Mayr wrote:
> 2017-08-09 11:44 GMT+02:00 Brian Exelbierd :
> > Perhaps we should collect these ideas into an easy to parse web
> > page we>>  can put on getfedora.org and whatcanidoforfedora.org ?
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > bex
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017, at 10:54 AM, sankarshan wrote:
> > > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Brian Exelbierd 
> > > wrote:>>  > > For the third time I have been approached by someone trying to
> > > > contact>>  > > "the Ambassadors."
> > > >
> > > > I am not sure if the answer I am providing is correct.  I am
> > > > suggesting>>  > > the following procedure.  I am not happy with it because it is
> > > > very>>  > > complicated and full of friction.  I am also worried that
> > > > because I made>>  > > it up, it is wrong.  I haven't found a simple "contact us" page
> > > > that>>  > > seems to make this clear to me.  Where is it?  I figure I've
> > > > missed it.>>  > >
> > > > This is what I have suggested:
> > > > Go to
> > > >
> > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification%3E...  > > and contact ambassadors from your region/country.  You may need
> > > > to>>  > > contact everyone because some people are busy or otherwise not
> > > > able to>>  > > answer email.
> > >
> > > At this moment, that URL above is perhaps the best way (short of
> > > writing in to a region list and asking an Ambassador to get
> > > back) to>>  > reach out.
> > >
> > > --
> > > sankarshan mukhopadhyay
> > > http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > ambassadors mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-
> > > [e-mail]>>  _______________________________________________
> >
> > ambassadors mailing list -- [e-mail]
> >  To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-
> >  [e-mail]>
>
> Yes, the best option is the first one you mentioned:
> > > Go to
> > >
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification%3E > > and contact ambassadors from your region/country.  You may need to> > > contact everyone because some people are busy or otherwise not
> > > able to> > > answer email.
>
> Opening tickets in pagure is quite difficult for a newbie, because he
> doesn't even know how Regions are called and what FAmSCo is.> A FAmSCo ticket is definitely wrong here.
> I also would direct him to IRC, although even that is rather tricky if
> you are not comfortable with this kind of communication.> 
> getfedora.org and whatcanidoforfedora.org are also not ideal, this
> kind of information and a "contact" (template?) could and will
> probably be part of Fedora Hubs.> The Ambassador team hub will have this possibility of interaction with
> new users and contributors.> I really hope we can get live with something (even if ready only
> partially) very soon, there is a real need of Hubs.

I haven't heard a hubs update in a while (and I haven't looked so it
isn't that they aren't necessarily communicating).  I am not sure that
we should wait if hubs is more than 3 months out.  I think a contact
process that will get an answer (which is what scares me about the
membership verification page) needs to be ironed out and hosted
somewhere.
regards,

bex

[charles profitt]

On Wed, 2017-08-09 at 10:43 +0200, Brian Exelbierd wrote:
> For the third time I have been approached by someone trying to
> contact "the Ambassadors."
>
> I am not sure if the answer I am providing is correct.  I am
> suggesting the following procedure.  I am not happy with it because
> it is very complicated and full of friction.  I am also worried that
> because I made it up, it is wrong.  I haven't found a simple "contact
> us" page that seems to make this clear to me.  Where is it?  I figure
> I've missed it.

[snip]
> regards,
>
> bex

I paused a long time after reading this thread... my mind wandered here
and there on how to approach this.

My first thought that a 'help desk' like system could be put in place
that would take care of sending the 'request' to the Ambassador's list.
Then anyone on the list could claim the ticket. That would make a one
stop shop for the person looking to make contact. It would reduce
complexity and eliminate the chance that the ambassador contacted was
inactive or just too busy to assist.

I also looked at many of the ideas given and wanted to give my thoughts
 on the Ambassador Wiki Page:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verificati
on

I am in the US, but I immediately realized there is an issue with
larger countries (geographically speaking). Looking at the United
States list I am confronted with 99 names and I have no idea what state
they are in. I also have no idea if the ambassador is active or not.

It would be fantastic to have a system that listed the state, region,
etc of an ambassador (assuming they are willing). It would also be
helpful if the list could dynamically tie in to the FAS account system
to know if an ambassador logged in to their account in the last 'x'
period of time to show as active or inactive.

Charles

[William Nash]

I like the thought of a ticket system myself.  Just need to figure out a
way to place someone active/inactive or maybe even assign time frames for
each ambassador.  for example 8-8 EST.  8-8 CST.  ex.  Another option would
to be set up mailman and assign ambassadors in a region.

Bill Nash

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 8:42 PM charles profitt  wrote:
> On Wed, 2017-08-09 at 10:43 +0200, Brian Exelbierd wrote:
> > For the third time I have been approached by someone trying to
> > contact "the Ambassadors."
> >
> > I am not sure if the answer I am providing is correct.  I am
> > suggesting the following procedure.  I am not happy with it because
> > it is very complicated and full of friction.  I am also worried that
> > because I made it up, it is wrong.  I haven't found a simple "contact
> > us" page that seems to make this clear to me.  Where is it?  I figure
> > I've missed it.
>
> [snip]
> > regards,
> >
> > bex
>
> I paused a long time after reading this thread... my mind wandered here
> and there on how to approach this.
>
> My first thought that a 'help desk' like system could be put in place
> that would take care of sending the 'request' to the Ambassador's list.
> Then anyone on the list could claim the ticket. That would make a one
> stop shop for the person looking to make contact. It would reduce
> complexity and eliminate the chance that the ambassador contacted was
> inactive or just too busy to assist.
>
> I also looked at many of the ideas given and wanted to give my thoughts
>  on the Ambassador Wiki Page:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verificati
> on
>
> I am in the US, but I immediately realized there is an issue with
> larger countries (geographically speaking). Looking at the United
> States list I am confronted with 99 names and I have no idea what state
> they are in. I also have no idea if the ambassador is active or not.
>
> It would be fantastic to have a system that listed the state, region,
> etc of an ambassador (assuming they are willing). It would also be
> helpful if the list could dynamically tie in to the FAS account system
> to know if an ambassador logged in to their account in the last 'x'
> period of time to show as active or inactive.
>
> Charles_______________________________________________
> ambassadors mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[Robert Mayr]

Il 10/ago/2017 03:42 AM, "charles profitt"  ha scritto:

On Wed, 2017-08-09 at 10:43 +0200, Brian Exelbierd wrote:
> For the third time I have been approached by someone trying to
> contact "the Ambassadors."
>
> I am not sure if the answer I am providing is correct.  I am
> suggesting the following procedure.  I am not happy with it because
> it is very complicated and full of friction.  I am also worried that
> because I made it up, it is wrong.  I haven't found a simple "contact
> us" page that seems to make this clear to me.  Where is it?  I figure
> I've missed it.

[snip]
> regards,
>
> bex

I paused a long time after reading this thread... my mind wandered here
and there on how to approach this.

My first thought that a 'help desk' like system could be put in place
that would take care of sending the 'request' to the Ambassador's list.

A contact form on a one pager can do that, but I'm not sure if the process
then doesn't get stuck within the list.

Then anyone on the list could claim the ticket. That would make a one
stop shop for the person looking to make contact. It would reduce
complexity and eliminate the chance that the ambassador contacted was
inactive or just too busy to assist.

I also looked at many of the ideas given and wanted to give my thoughts
 on the Ambassador Wiki Page:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verificati
on

I am in the US, but I immediately realized there is an issue with
larger countries (geographically speaking). Looking at the United
States list I am confronted with 99 names and I have no idea what state
they are in. I also have no idea if the ambassador is active or not.

All ambassadors listed in that page are set as active in the FAS account.
We have a script which runs at least daily and lists all active ambassadors
sorting them by country code.
If they respond or not is another thing.

It would be fantastic to have a system that listed the state, region,
etc of an ambassador (assuming they are willing). It would also be
helpful if the list could dynamically tie in to the FAS account system
to know if an ambassador logged in to their account in the last 'x'
period of time to show as active or inactive.

In the past we used to have the ambassadors map [1], and it is still
active, but people need to set their exact location in the FAS account in
order to appear on that map. Actually only few ambassadors did that.
Even this map is updated daily with a script.

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/membership-map/ambassadors.html

Regards
Robert

Charles
_______________________________________________
ambassadors mailing list -- [e-mail]
To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[charles profitt]

On Thu, 2017-08-10 at 09:40 +0200, Robert Mayr wrote:

[snip]
> A contact form on a one pager can do that, but I'm not sure if the
> process then doesn't get stuck within the list.

I agree that it might still get stuck, but I like making one single
point of contact for the people seeking to work with the community.
> All ambassadors listed in that page are set as active in the FAS
> account. We have a script which runs at least daily and lists all
> active ambassadors sorting them by country code.
> If they respond or not is another thing.

What determine active in the FAS account?
> > It would be fantastic to have a system that listed the state,
> > region, etc of an ambassador (assuming they are willing). It would
> > also be helpful if the list could dynamically tie in to the FAS
> > account system to know if an ambassador logged in to their account
> > in the last 'x' period of time to show as active or inactive.
>
> In the past we used to have the ambassadors map [1], and it is still
> active, but people need to set their exact location in the FAS
> account in order to appear on that map. Actually only few ambassadors
> did that. Even this map is updated daily with a script.
>
> [1] https://fedoraproject.org/membership-map/ambassadors.html

That map is fantastic. Do all ambassadors know about the need to fill
out their location?

Charles

[Robert Mayr]

2017-08-11 1:05 GMT+02:00 charles profitt :
> On Thu, 2017-08-10 at 09:40 +0200, Robert Mayr wrote:
>
> [snip]
> > A contact form on a one pager can do that, but I'm not sure if the
> > process then doesn't get stuck within the list.
>
> I agree that it might still get stuck, but I like making one single
> point of contact for the people seeking to work with the community.

Yes, definitely.
> > All ambassadors listed in that page are set as active in the FAS
> > account. We have a script which runs at least daily and lists all
> > active ambassadors sorting them by country code.
> > If they respond or not is another thing.
>
> What determine active in the FAS account?

People can set themselves as inactive, but no subgroup has actually a rule
to deactivate accounts.
FAmSCo runs a script from time to time to remove inactive ambassadors
directly from the FAS group. They will not show up in the list.
> > > It would be fantastic to have a system that listed the state,
> > > region, etc of an ambassador (assuming they are willing). It would
> > > also be helpful if the list could dynamically tie in to the FAS
> > > account system to know if an ambassador logged in to their account
> > > in the last 'x' period of time to show as active or inactive.
> >
> > In the past we used to have the ambassadors map [1], and it is still
> > active, but people need to set their exact location in the FAS
> > account in order to appear on that map. Actually only few ambassadors
> > did that. Even this map is updated daily with a script.
> >
> > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/membership-map/ambassadors.html
>
> That map is fantastic. Do all ambassadors know about the need to fill
> out their location?

Well, the map has some issues and is really slow. The script is in the FAmA
pagure repo, but I don't have actually ideas how we can make it better.
And no, specially new ambassadors probably are not aware of the existence
of this map.
I made a proposal some years ago to make this like mozilla (we have some
mozilla ambassadors between us)
https://reps.mozilla.org/people/#/

I also tried, as the repo is on github, to rebuild it locally in order to
make something similar for Fedora, and because I made this question to
myself 5 years ago...
There is a map, you can easily make researches or just look on the map who
is nearest to you. Not only that, you will get all information of the
ambassador, like contact, events, activity etc etc...
Unfortunately I was not able to rebuild it, even after some hacks, but I
don't remember why I failed (not really sure, but IIRC it's all django, so
that would be easy).
It was during FLOCK 2013, and we talked about Hubs and agreed this should
be something we want to have in the ambassador page, but Hubs still didn't
land and so we are in the same situation as 4 years ago.

If anyone wants to have a look on this, would be excellent.
> Charles
> _______________________________________________
> ambassadors mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[Brian Exelbierd]

I wanted to forward a story I received privately, that I am sharing with
the permission of the sender: (additional responses inline)
---
     Hi, Brian.  I was browsing the [e-mail] list and saw your thread.[1]  Having recently tried to contact
the ambassadors, I thought I had some useful information to share.

I initially found out about the ambassadors under the "Speaking
about The Fedora Project" section of this press material page.[2]  The
instructions to contact the ambassadors simply led me to the Ambassadorspage[3] with only the mailing list and IRC channel mentioned as means ofcommunication.
     I wondered whether I should post to the list or not, since it "is aprivate list for Fedora Ambassadors."[4]  But since the press material
page led me to the list, I attempted to join & post a message.  Even
though the site acknowledged the confirmation of my e-mail address, my
message to the list never got posted and I have not received any other
posts to the list.
     I finally reached out to the ambassadors on IRC.  It took a few
hours for someone to acknowledge my message.

So yes, the process of contacting an ambassador really does need
improved!  Kudos to you for starting that conversation!

[1]https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]/thread/IMZUGU4TFMD2G2ZMZVX75DT7GK3TZHZE/
[2]http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_press_material#Speaking_about_The_Fedora_Project
[3]http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors

[4]https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/ambassadors.lists.fedoraproject.org/
---

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017, at 01:57 PM, Robert Mayr wrote:
> 2017-08-11 1:05 GMT+02:00 charles profitt :
> > On Thu, 2017-08-10 at 09:40 +0200, Robert Mayr wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> > > A contact form on a one pager can do that, but I'm not sure if the
> > > process then doesn't get stuck within the list.
> >
> > I agree that it might still get stuck, but I like making one single>>  point of contact for the people seeking to work with the community.>
>
> Yes, definitely.

Would FAmSCo be the right body to drive this?
> > > All ambassadors listed in that page are set as active in the FAS
> > > account. We have a script which runs at least daily and lists all
> > > active ambassadors sorting them by country code. If they respond
> > > or not is another thing.
> >
> > What determine active in the FAS account?>
>
> People can set themselves as inactive, but no subgroup has actually a
> rule to deactivate accounts.> FAmSCo runs a script from time to time to remove inactive ambassadors
> directly from the FAS group. They will not show up in the list.

Should we set some criteria for marking an ambassador inactive (after
some conversation with them)?  I would be in favor of something soft and
easy like, "Every ambassador is emailed every 6 months and asked to
reply with what they've been up to for the last 6 months.  If there is
no response received in 2 weeks they are marked inactive.  If someone
replies within 6 weeks they are automatically moved back to active.  If
a reply is received after 6 weeks the person has to petition for
reactivation"
The idea is that we get an easy process that gives us valuable data
about what is going on.  This also avoids having to discuss whether it
is possible to be an active ambassador and never generate a fedmsg.  The
2/6 week timeframe is to prejudice toward marking people inactive to
give better customer service to inquiries but make it easy to move
people back to active if by chance they were offline during the two week
inquiry period.  The after 6 week you need to be reviewed gives us the
chance to figure out why someone disappeared with seemingly no notice
for 6 weeks and how they approach being an ambassador.  The idea is not
to create a high bar for reactivation or to create a lot of
administrivia.
From a management perspective, I believe we should not poll everyone at
once.  Instead, key the 6 month dates off the date someone was added to
the ambassador group.  This should make it a manageable workload.
A cool way to do this would be to create a Pagure repo and use issues.
This way what people are doing is highly visible as is whether they
responded or not.  Automation could be written to open issues
automatically and assign them to the right people.
> > > > It would be fantastic to have a system that listed the state,
> > > > region, etc of an ambassador (assuming they are willing). It
> > > > would also be helpful if the list could dynamically tie in to
> > > > the FAS account system to know if an ambassador logged in to
> > > > their account in the last 'x' period of time to show as active
> > > > or inactive.
> > >
> > > In the past we used to have the ambassadors map [1], and it is
> > > still active, but people need to set their exact location in the
> > > FAS account in order to appear on that map. Actually only few
> > > ambassadors did that. Even this map is updated daily with a
> > > script.
> > >
> > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/membership-map/ambassadors.html
> >
> > That map is fantastic. Do all ambassadors know about the need to fill>>  out their location?
>
> Well, the map has some issues and is really slow. The script is in
> the FAmA pagure repo, but I don't have actually ideas how we can make
> it better.> And no, specially new ambassadors probably are not aware of the
> existence of this map.> I made a proposal some years ago to make this like mozilla (we have
> some mozilla ambassadors between us)> https://reps.mozilla.org/people/#/
>
> I also tried, as the repo is on github, to rebuild it locally in order
> to make something similar for Fedora, and because I made this question
> to myself 5 years ago...> There is a map, you can easily make researches or just look on the map
> who is nearest to you. Not only that, you will get all information of
> the ambassador, like contact, events, activity etc etc...> Unfortunately I was not able to rebuild it, even after some hacks, but
> I don't remember why I failed (not really sure, but IIRC it's all
> django, so that would be easy).

Could we start with text and not let map be a blocker?  I think we could
probably get the map easily once we have a clean list and the data
(state, location, specificity, etc.).
> It was during FLOCK 2013, and we talked about Hubs and agreed this
> should be something we want to have in the ambassador page, but Hubs
> still didn't land and so we are in the same situation as 4 years ago.

agreed that we should not wait on hubs but should be ready to use it
when it launches.
regards,

bex

[Robert Mayr]

2017-08-16 13:05 GMT+02:00 Brian Exelbierd :
> I wanted to forward a story I received privately, that I am sharing with
> the permission of the sender: (additional responses inline)
>  Hi, Brian.  I was browsing the [e-mail]
>
> mailing list and saw your thread.[1]  Having recently tried to contact
> the ambassadors, I thought I had some useful information to share.
>  I initially found out about the ambassadors under the "Speaking
>
> about The Fedora Project" section of this press material page.[2]  The
> instructions to contact the ambassadors simply led me to the Ambassadors
> page[3] with only the mailing list and IRC channel mentioned as means of
> communication.
>      I wondered whether I should post to the list or not, since it "is a
> private list for Fedora Ambassadors."[4]  But since the press material
> page led me to the list, I attempted to join & post a message.  Even
> though the site acknowledged the confirmation of my e-mail address, my
> message to the list never got posted and I have not received any other
> posts to the list.
>      I finally reached out to the ambassadors on IRC.  It took a few
> hours for someone to acknowledge my message.
>  So yes, the process of contacting an ambassador really does need
>
> improved!  Kudos to you for starting that conversation!
>
> [1]https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.
> fedoraproject.org/thread/IMZUGU4TFMD2G2ZMZVX75DT7GK3TZHZE/
>
> [2]http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_press_material#
> Speaking_about_The_Fedora_Project
>
> [3]http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
>
> [4]https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/ambassadors.lists.
> fedoraproject.org/

I think we already agreed we need to improve that, although the Press
Material page is rather special and I am not sure how many users go through
it at first.
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017, at 01:57 PM, Robert Mayr wrote:
>
> 2017-08-11 1:05 GMT+02:00 charles profitt :
>
> On Thu, 2017-08-10 at 09:40 +0200, Robert Mayr wrote:
>
> [snip]
> > A contact form on a one pager can do that, but I'm not sure if the
> > process then doesn't get stuck within the list.
>
> I agree that it might still get stuck, but I like making one single
> point of contact for the people seeking to work with the community.
>
> Yes, definitely.
>
> Would FAmSCo be the right body to drive this?

Well, I see this as a good example of the Mindshare initiative, where
websites (with Infra) and design can then probably make this happen.
> > All ambassadors listed in that page are set as active in the FAS
> > account. We have a script which runs at least daily and lists all
> > active ambassadors sorting them by country code.
> > If they respond or not is another thing.
>
> What determine active in the FAS account?
>
> People can set themselves as inactive, but no subgroup has actually a rule
> to deactivate accounts.
> FAmSCo runs a script from time to time to remove inactive ambassadors
> directly from the FAS group. They will not show up in the list.
>
> Should we set some criteria for marking an ambassador inactive (after some
> conversation with them)?  I would be in favor of something soft and easy
> like, "Every ambassador is emailed every 6 months and asked to reply with
> what they've been up to for the last 6 months.  If there is no response
> received in 2 weeks they are marked inactive.  If someone replies within 6
> weeks they are automatically moved back to active.  If a reply is received
> after 6 weeks the person has to petition for reactivation"

1) Can you define active and inactive? It's quite impossible, when speaking
about ambassadors. We discussed this for the last months and even years,
and came up with the following process, which seems to make happy all
ambassador for now:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService#Inactive_Ambass...
It is a first step, we can make this even every 12 months, but I'm not sure
if we should shorten the time period more. We want to have ambassadors and
should not be too severe when removing them.
Generally speaking the requests to become ambassador have decreased.

2) Infra raised many concerns about setting accounts as inactive, and even
the Council didn't approve any general rule to set accounts as inactive,
because this would have many other consequences on other groups. That's
also the reason why we remove people from the FAS group rather than setting
them as inactive. Every person removed from the FAS group can re-apply if
he wants to contribute again (see our rules above).
> The idea is that we get an easy process that gives us valuable data about
> what is going on.  This also avoids having to discuss whether it is
> possible to be an active ambassador and never generate a fedmsg.  The 2/6
> week timeframe is to prejudice toward marking people inactive to give
> better customer service to inquiries but make it easy to move people back
> to active if by chance they were offline during the two week inquiry
> period.  The after 6 week you need to be reviewed gives us the chance to
> figure out why someone disappeared with seemingly no notice for 6 weeks and
> how they approach being an ambassador.  The idea is not to create a high
> bar for reactivation or to create a lot of administrivia.

Again, ambassadors' activity is not measurable with valuable data. There
are too many ways to do the work, although I agree that if an ambassador
never logs into a Fedora system (fedmsg) for more than 12 months, he will
not be able to make a good job, because his knowledge is probably outdated.
Too many things happen in 12 months in Fedora world.
> From a management perspective, I believe we should not poll everyone at
> once.  Instead, key the 6 month dates off the date someone was added to the
> ambassador group.  This should make it a manageable workload.
>
> A cool way to do this would be to create a Pagure repo and use issues.
> This way what people are doing is highly visible as is whether they
> responded or not.  Automation could be written to open issues automatically
> and assign them to the right people.

I don't think ambassadors will interact much with pagure just for their
state. It is hard already to get any feedback or update even in the
fama-mentors pagure...
> > > It would be fantastic to have a system that listed the state,
> > > region, etc of an ambassador (assuming they are willing). It would
> > > also be helpful if the list could dynamically tie in to the FAS
> > > account system to know if an ambassador logged in to their account
> > > in the last 'x' period of time to show as active or inactive.
> >
> > In the past we used to have the ambassadors map [1], and it is still
> > active, but people need to set their exact location in the FAS
> > account in order to appear on that map. Actually only few ambassadors
> > did that. Even this map is updated daily with a script.
> >
> > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/membership-map/ambassadors.html
>
> That map is fantastic. Do all ambassadors know about the need to fill
> out their location?
>
> Well, the map has some issues and is really slow. The script is in the
> FAmA pagure repo, but I don't have actually ideas how we can make it better.
> And no, specially new ambassadors probably are not aware of the existence
> of this map.
> I made a proposal some years ago to make this like mozilla (we have some
> mozilla ambassadors between us)
> https://reps.mozilla.org/people/#/
>
> I also tried, as the repo is on github, to rebuild it locally in order to
> make something similar for Fedora, and because I made this question to
> myself 5 years ago...
> There is a map, you can easily make researches or just look on the map who
> is nearest to you. Not only that, you will get all information of the
> ambassador, like contact, events, activity etc etc...
> Unfortunately I was not able to rebuild it, even after some hacks, but I
> don't remember why I failed (not really sure, but IIRC it's all django, so
> that would be easy).
>
> Could we start with text and not let map be a blocker?  I think we could
> probably get the map easily once we have a clean list and the data (state,
> location, specificity, etc.).

My statement was just to say what I tried to do in the past, and give some
insight where the issues might be, not to declare the map a blocker. Yes,
we can make a map if we have data, but we haven't data at all.
Also, someone needs to write the map application as the actual is not
working well and I wouldn't continue with that script.
> It was during FLOCK 2013, and we talked about Hubs and agreed this should
> be something we want to have in the ambassador page, but Hubs still didn't
> land and so we are in the same situation as 4 years ago.
>
> agreed that we should not wait on hubs but should be ready to use it when
> it launches.

That's true, and I think we are ready to use it for many other things too.
I think we could wait after Flock to know where we are with hubs, and see
if we can discuss things in the ambassador session too, probably we are
able to find some helping hands to make happen the things we all are
looking for.
> regards,
>
> bex
>
> ambassadors mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

Regards.