7:28 p.m.
Minutes:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2012-03-28/famsco.2012-03...
Minutes (text):
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2012-03-28/famsco.2012-03...
Log:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2012-03-28/famsco.2012-03...
Meet you again next week
Wednesday, April 4th
at 22:00 UTC
in #fedora-meeting!
Regards,
Christoph
==================================
#fedora-meeting: FAmSCo 2012-03-28
==================================
Meeting started by cwickert at 22:02:19 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2012-03-28/famsco.2012-03...
.
Meeting summary
---------------
* Reimbursment request for FSF-OSSC event (12.11.2011) (cwickert,
22:06:31)
* ACTION: zoltanh7211 to add numbers in ticket #235 (cwickert,
22:14:11)
* AGREED: #235 is approved (cwickert, 22:15:17)
* Fedora disks for first half of 2012 (Chile and Argentina) (cwickert,
22:15:33)
* ACTION: igorps to make sure #263 gets discussed in the LATAM meeting
and get back to Antonio (cwickert, 22:18:20)
* Sponsorship request for Linuxwochen Vienna 2012 and LGM (2-6)
(cwickert, 22:20:00)
* LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/267#comment:4
(zoltanh7211, 22:25:36)
* LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/267#comment:3 (herlo,
22:25:45)
* ACTION: zoltanh7211 to provide cwickert all details for booking the
apartment in Vienna. that is names and dates etc. (cwickert,
22:36:06)
* Sponsorship for dmaphy for Grazer LinuxTage 2012 (cwickert, 22:37:03)
* AGREED: : #274 is approved. maximum amount we are willing to spend
is 500 EUR (cwickert, 22:40:16)
* Transit flight from KL to Hong Kong to start Fedora contacts with
HKLUG. (cwickert, 22:40:28)
* ACTION: kaio to create a wiki page for the event of the HKLUG
(cwickert, 22:42:19)
* AGREED: #277 is approved up to USD 200, but we still need a wiki
page for the event (cwickert, 22:53:24)
* ACTION: kaio to create a wiki page about the HKLUG event (cwickert,
22:53:31)
* LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/278 (yn1v, 22:54:21)
* AGREED: #278 is approved up to an amount of USD 500 (cwickert,
22:58:42)
* ACTION: herlo to file a ticket on budget allocation (cwickert,
23:03:50)
* FUDCon bids 2012 (cwickert, 23:08:16)
* LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Paris_2012
(cwickert, 23:08:45)
* ACTION: cwickert to write a mail about FUDCon to ambassadors list
(cwickert, 23:50:10)
* New trademark guidelines and their impact on the ambassadors swag
production (cwickert, 23:51:52)
* ACTION: all FAmSco members to read
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pchestek/TMGuidelinesDraft and
add their questions and concerns at
https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/264 by next week (cwickert,
23:53:57)
* Open Floor (cwickert, 23:54:13)
Meeting ended at 23:56:41 UTC.
Action Items
------------
* zoltanh7211 to add numbers in ticket #235
* igorps to make sure #263 gets discussed in the LATAM meeting and get
back to Antonio
* zoltanh7211 to provide cwickert all details for booking the apartment
in Vienna. that is names and dates etc.
* kaio to create a wiki page for the event of the HKLUG
* kaio to create a wiki page about the HKLUG event
* herlo to file a ticket on budget allocation
* cwickert to write a mail about FUDCon to ambassadors list
* all FAmSco members to read
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pchestek/TMGuidelinesDraft and add
their questions and concerns at
https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/264 by next week
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* cwickert
* zoltanh7211 to provide cwickert all details for booking the
apartment in Vienna. that is names and dates etc.
* cwickert to write a mail about FUDCon to ambassadors list
* herlo
* herlo to file a ticket on budget allocation
* igorps
* igorps to make sure #263 gets discussed in the LATAM meeting and get
back to Antonio
* kaio
* kaio to create a wiki page for the event of the HKLUG
* kaio to create a wiki page about the HKLUG event
* zoltanh7211
* zoltanh7211 to add numbers in ticket #235
* zoltanh7211 to provide cwickert all details for booking the
apartment in Vienna. that is names and dates etc.
* **UNASSIGNED**
* all FAmSco members to read
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pchestek/TMGuidelinesDraft and
add their questions and concerns at
https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/264 by next week
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* cwickert (262)
* herlo (65)
* shaiton_ (58)
* zoltanh7211 (58)
* igorps (31)
* yn1v (20)
* kaio (20)
* zodbot (15)
* rbergeron (12)
* igorps_ (3)
3:40 a.m.
New subject: [FUDCon EMEA bids]Re: FAmSco meeting 2012-03-21 minutes
On 29.03.2012 02:28, Christoph Wickert wrote:
reading the famsco meeting logs about the fudcon emea discussion -
I do not know if this is a argument - but as far as i know this is the
*first bid from France Paris* -
*Budapest lost* the bid last year and *loosing again would be a odd
statement* to the hungarian community.
From zero with my first letter to the University of Szeged in 2006, to
my visit to the hungarian Fedora community in Budapest last year[1] and
till today, it was fun but also work to grow that community together
with Zoltan. I am so happy to see that the hungarian community now is a
solid valuable part of the Fedora Community and if that means something
*i want to raise my voice in favour for the Budapest bid*
(Dear french contributors you know i care about you very much as well
please do not take it personally that i am in favour for Budapest this
time!)
[1] http://kitall.blogspot.de/2011/08/i-am-back-from-fedora-round-table.html
--
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
4:12 a.m.
New subject: [FUDCon EMEA bids]Re: FAmSco meeting 2012-03-21 minutes
On 29.03.2012 10:40, Joerg Simon wrote:
I do not know if this is a argument - but as far as i know this is
the
*first bid from France Paris* -
*Budapest lost* the bid last year and *loosing again would be a odd
statement* to the hungarian community.
inspired from a private reply i got, i want to clarify
In no way this should imply from the hard facts one bid is more or less
valuable as the other bid! Both invested time and efforts!!!
But if the hard facts are even - then maybe this information can help
all the best Joerg
--
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
6:22 a.m.
New subject: [FUDCon EMEA bids]Re: FAmSco meeting 2012-03-21 minutes
On 03/29/2012 02:12 AM, Joerg Simon wrote:
On 29.03.2012 10:40, Joerg Simon wrote:
> I do not know if this is a argument - but as far as i know this is the
> *first bid from France Paris* -
>
> *Budapest lost* the bid last year and *loosing again would be a odd
> statement* to the hungarian community.
inspired from a private reply i got, i want to clarify
In no way this should imply from the hard facts one bid is more or less
valuable as the other bid! Both invested time and efforts!!!
But if the hard facts are even - then maybe this information can help
all the best Joerg
Yes, I agree that if all the facts are even, perhaps it could help, but
what I don't want to see is people feeling discouraged from submitting a
bid simply because there is another bid that had been submitted the
previous year. Or worse, being the first to submit a bid and then
feeling as though it was wasted time because a previous proposal was
renewed.
--
ambassadors mailing list
ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
6:47 a.m.
New subject: [FUDCon EMEA bids]Re: FAmSco meeting 2012-03-21 minutes
On 03/29/2012 02:12 AM, Joerg Simon wrote:
> On 29.03.2012 10:40, Joerg Simon wrote:
>> I do not know if this is a argument - but as far as i know this is the
>> *first bid from France Paris* -
>>
>> *Budapest lost* the bid last year and *loosing again would be a odd
>> statement* to the hungarian community.
> inspired from a private reply i got, i want to clarify
> In no way this should imply from the hard facts one bid is more or less
> valuable as the other bid! Both invested time and efforts!!!
> But if the hard facts are even - then maybe this information can help
>
> all the best Joerg
>
Yes, I agree that if all the facts are even, perhaps it could help, but
what I don't want to see is people feeling discouraged from submitting a
bid simply because there is another bid that had been submitted the
previous year. Or worse, being the first to submit a bid and then
feeling as though it was wasted time because a previous proposal was
renewed.
Hi everybody,
long, long, long, long time ago, we wanted our french friends to come
along with a bid for a FUDCON. It was in the time, when our FPL was named
Max and when we lived also in Europe ;-)
As one of the oldest (and not just in years) Ambassadors in the program, I
followed every year the bids and the "community" behind ...
We forced Joerg and also Zoltan last year to make a bid, the same way as
we try to push Pierros and the (at that time most strongest and highly
presented) greece team (at least at FOSDEM and in reports afais), to
prepare something ...
I'm really happy to see this year the first time, that our "pressure"
takes fruits in France and I'm also very happy to see the bid from Zoltan
(again). It was more or less also in our minds, that a FUDCON and the
hosting of a FUDCON is a very, very, very special "recognition award"
which is granted to a strong community in the Region who did a lot for the
progress of the whole project in generell.
I just have to remind the most international FAD this year in Brussels at
FOSDEM who like with a small majority to head this year to Budapest to
hold FUDCON at the hungarian team.
Just my five cents
Gerold
7:04 a.m.
New subject: [FUDCon EMEA bids]Re: FAmSco meeting 2012-03-21 minutes
Robyn Bergeron píše v Čt 29. 03. 2012 v 04:22 -0700:
On 03/29/2012 02:12 AM, Joerg Simon wrote:
> On 29.03.2012 10:40, Joerg Simon wrote:
> > I do not know if this is a argument - but as far as i know this is the
> > *first bid from France Paris* -
> >
> > *Budapest lost* the bid last year and *loosing again would be a odd
> > statement* to the hungarian community.
> inspired from a private reply i got, i want to clarify
> In no way this should imply from the hard facts one bid is more or less
> valuable as the other bid! Both invested time and efforts!!!
> But if the hard facts are even - then maybe this information can help
>
> all the best Joerg
>
Yes, I agree that if all the facts are even, perhaps it could help,
but what I don't want to see is people feeling discouraged from
submitting a bid simply because there is another bid that had been
submitted the previous year. Or worse, being the first to submit a
bid and then feeling as though it was wasted time because a previous
proposal was renewed.
+1
But I think what causes all this is that there is no defined selection
procedure. Or at least I don't see any.
I think next time we should define the selection procedure for FUDCons:
when and mainly who will decide where the next FUDCon will take place.
And those who will have a vote (FAmSCo, Board,...) shouldn't publicly
say their opinions before the actual voting not to discourage other
bids.
I just don't like the way it's being done this time when you hear that a
group of ambassadors have already voted it's gonna be in that city and
some write emails to mailing lists that want it to be there and there.
I may or may not share their opinions, but I think it's discouraging. I
think this shouldn't happen before all bids are submitted and ready to
be reviewed.
Red Hat Brno office always sends many developers to FUDCon EMEA and our
opinion may influence the decision-making. That's why I haven't publicly
expressed my opinion (and I think neither have Jaroslav Reznik and
others) just not to discourage others to work on bids that may turn out
to be great in the end.
Jiri
7:14 a.m.
New subject: [FUDCon EMEA bids]Re: FAmSco meeting 2012-03-21 minutes
Jiri Eischmann píše v Čt 29. 03. 2012 v 14:04 +0200:
Robyn Bergeron píše v Čt 29. 03. 2012 v 04:22 -0700:
> On 03/29/2012 02:12 AM, Joerg Simon wrote:
> > On 29.03.2012 10:40, Joerg Simon wrote:
> > > I do not know if this is a argument - but as far as i know this is the
> > > *first bid from France Paris* -
> > >
> > > *Budapest lost* the bid last year and *loosing again would be a odd
> > > statement* to the hungarian community.
> > inspired from a private reply i got, i want to clarify
> > In no way this should imply from the hard facts one bid is more or less
> > valuable as the other bid! Both invested time and efforts!!!
> > But if the hard facts are even - then maybe this information can help
> >
> > all the best Joerg
> >
> Yes, I agree that if all the facts are even, perhaps it could help,
> but what I don't want to see is people feeling discouraged from
> submitting a bid simply because there is another bid that had been
> submitted the previous year. Or worse, being the first to submit a
> bid and then feeling as though it was wasted time because a previous
> proposal was renewed.
+1
But I think what causes all this is that there is no defined selection
procedure. Or at least I don't see any.
I think next time we should define the selection procedure for FUDCons:
when and mainly who will decide where the next FUDCon will take place.
And those who will have a vote (FAmSCo, Board,...) shouldn't publicly
say their opinions before the actual voting not to discourage other
bids.
I just don't like the way it's being done this time when you hear that a
group of ambassadors have already voted it's gonna be in that city and
some write emails to mailing lists that want it to be there and there.
I may or may not share their opinions, but I think it's discouraging. I
think this shouldn't happen before all bids are submitted and ready to
be reviewed.
Red Hat Brno office always sends many developers to FUDCon EMEA and our
opinion may influence the decision-making. That's why I haven't publicly
expressed my opinion (and I think neither have Jaroslav Reznik and
others) just not to discourage others to work on bids that may turn out
to be great in the end.
Jiri
Don't get it wrong. I'm not saying no one should express his/her
opinion. I just think that there should be defined deadlines and we
should give bidders time to make great bids and not to discourage them
by expressing our personal opinions too early and once the deadline has
passed and we have all bids submitted and ready let's start discussing
and choose the best one a transparent way.
Jiri
3:46 p.m.
New subject: [FUDCon EMEA bids]Re: FAmSco meeting 2012-03-21 minutes
On 29.03.2012 14:14, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Don't get it wrong. I'm not saying no one should express
his/her
opinion. I just think that there should be defined deadlines and we
should give bidders time to make great bids and not to discourage them
by expressing our personal opinions too early and once the deadline has
passed and we have all bids submitted and ready let's start discussing
and choose the best one a transparent way.
i do not think it is to early - the deadline for submitting the EMEA
bids was January 11, 2012¹ - and i also do not think our french friends
are discouraged by my statement - even if my arguments were flawed and
biased ;) - i am only one voice!
but i agree with you that a more objective approach for making the
decission would be good, as example to improve the metric that i
proposed in famsco in 2010 to make the 2011 decission for latam - not
perfect but a start²
I wished i had more time - metrics are my hobby - and i think i could
come up with something better than what we have done in 2010 but my
dayjob takes nearly my full attention at the moment. Maybe someone will
step up who has fun with metrics?
No matter who get selected - for those who do not make it, there is no
reason to give up - this is not a rejection. I could deal with "loosing"
the Budapest Bid last year - so even if i am not behind the bid this
year, i know how it feels;)
cu Joerg
¹
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/announce/2011-December/003024.html
²
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?pli=1&key=0Ao95bHUyeo-KdEpOM1...
--
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
5:22 p.m.
New subject: [FUDCon EMEA bids]Re: FAmSco meeting 2012-03-21 minutes
2012/3/29 Joerg Simon <jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org>:
On 29.03.2012 14:14, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
> Don't get it wrong. I'm not saying no one should express his/her
> opinion. I just think that there should be defined deadlines and we
> should give bidders time to make great bids and not to discourage them
> by expressing our personal opinions too early and once the deadline has
> passed and we have all bids submitted and ready let's start discussing
> and choose the best one a transparent way.
i do not think it is to early - the deadline for submitting the EMEA
bids was January 11, 2012¹ - and i also do not think our french friends
are discouraged by my statement - even if my arguments were flawed and
biased ;) - i am only one voice!
but i agree with you that a more objective approach for making the
decission would be good, as example to improve the metric that i
proposed in famsco in 2010 to make the 2011 decission for latam - not
perfect but a start²
I wished i had more time - metrics are my hobby - and i think i could
come up with something better than what we have done in 2010 but my
dayjob takes nearly my full attention at the moment. Maybe someone will
step up who has fun with metrics?
Clearly that would be great to define a bit more how the decision would be made.
We speak between ambassadors, and the FAmSCo have the budget approval.
Even if the FUDCon is organized by ambassadors, it's mostly a devel
event, where all groups are involved.
It's not about ambassador only, and I know many contributors knowing
more about FUDCon than ambassador the tasks.
No matter who get selected - for those who do not make it, there is
no
reason to give up - this is not a rejection. I could deal with "loosing"
the Budapest Bid last year - so even if i am not behind the bid this
year, i know how it feels;)
cu Joerg
¹
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/announce/2011-December/003024.html
²
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?pli=1&key=0Ao95bHUyeo-KdEpOM1...
--
BTW Zoltan, we've done it really well at last meeting:
* shaiton_ (58)
* zoltanh7211 (58)
;-)
--
Kévin Raymond
(shaiton)
GPG-Key: A5BCB3A2
4409
days inactive
4409
days old
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
8 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Christoph Wickert -
Gerold -
Jiri Eischmann -
Joerg Simon -
Kévin Raymond -
Robyn Bergeron