9:43 a.m.
posted some thoughts on statistics and some budget stats - maybe it
helps the budget planing
http://kitall.blogspot.de/2013/01/fedora-community-credit-card-2012.html
cu Joerg
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Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
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11:32 a.m.
Am Mittwoch, den 02.01.2013, 16:43 +0100 schrieb Joerg Simon:
posted some thoughts on statistics and some budget stats - maybe it
helps the budget planing
http://kitall.blogspot.de/2013/01/fedora-community-credit-card-2012.html
Hi Jörg,
thanks for digging into the numbers and creating these statistics. I
agree they are very valuable.
Let me comment one some things you raised in your blog post:
The problem with the FAmSCo reports was that cost is too much time to
produce them. We didn't discontinue them because we don't think they
were not important any longer, but simply because it was too much work,
especially when they were done monthly. If there is a way to produce
them easily and it this process is documented, we could think about
bringing them back.
Even if we don't, we should have an annual report. I don't care how it's
done, but we need to have some numbers and some kind of retrospective:
What has changed in the last year? What have we achieved and where did
we fail? I think this is the most important question.
You say you don't see our community develop. I don't think this is true,
I think we need look more carefully. The total number of ambassadors or
the number of new applications are just two indicators. There are many
more: The number of regional meetings held, the number of FAmSCo
meetings, the attendance in these meetings, attendance at events, and
many more I forget at the moment. And looking at these numbers, the
situation is different: We had more regional meetings and more FAmSCo
meetings than ever before and we had more people attending (details to
come).
Then there is another important number: Money. You are pointing out that
in the 7 of 2011, community credit card have spend more money for than
in the complete fiscal year 2012. This is basically the aftermath of Max
leaving which caused a lot of trouble. Short version is: There was a
transition of the budget to another person. This person had problems
with the book keeping and FAmSCo had no idea how much money was spent.
At some point, we were told that we had no money left (or only $5000 for
the rest of the year) and therefor we dramatically had to cut the
expenses.
This turned out to not me true. In fact we had a lot of money left but
did not spend it. As a result, the budget for 2012 was lower. Then there
was the transition from Red Hat's Community Architecture team to the new
Open Source and Standards group, which also caused delay and confusion.
But I think we've cleared it up, at least from the FAmSCo side.
What do we learn from this?
* The community needs more power. Having too much power in the
hands of a single person can become a problem when this person
disappears. We should distribute power and workload on more
shoulders.
* We need better controlling. We need to track our expenses.
Ideally, FAmSCo should be in the position to figure out how
much was spent without having to ask somebody.
Jörg, your statics are a good start and will help us a lot to achieve
this. Thanks a lot for your work!
One very minor point though: I think the cost distribution is a little
too detailed. E.g. "Parking/Tolls" and "Fuel" can easily be
summarized
under the big "Transportation" portion.
Kind regards,
Christoph
11:45 a.m.
Christoph Wickert píše v St 02. 01. 2013 v 18:32 +0100:
Am Mittwoch, den 02.01.2013, 16:43 +0100 schrieb Joerg Simon:
> posted some thoughts on statistics and some budget stats - maybe it
> helps the budget planing
>
> http://kitall.blogspot.de/2013/01/fedora-community-credit-card-2012.html
Hi Jörg,
thanks for digging into the numbers and creating these statistics. I
agree they are very valuable.
Let me comment one some things you raised in your blog post:
The problem with the FAmSCo reports was that cost is too much time to
produce them. We didn't discontinue them because we don't think they
were not important any longer, but simply because it was too much work,
especially when they were done monthly. If there is a way to produce
them easily and it this process is documented, we could think about
bringing them back.
Even if we don't, we should have an annual report. I don't care how it's
done, but we need to have some numbers and some kind of retrospective:
What has changed in the last year? What have we achieved and where did
we fail? I think this is the most important question.
You say you don't see our community develop. I don't think this is true,
I think we need look more carefully. The total number of ambassadors or
the number of new applications are just two indicators. There are many
more: The number of regional meetings held, the number of FAmSCo
meetings, the attendance in these meetings, attendance at events, and
many more I forget at the moment. And looking at these numbers, the
situation is different: We had more regional meetings and more FAmSCo
meetings than ever before and we had more people attending (details to
come).
Then there is another important number: Money. You are pointing out that
in the 7 of 2011, community credit card have spend more money for than
in the complete fiscal year 2012. This is basically the aftermath of Max
leaving which caused a lot of trouble. Short version is: There was a
transition of the budget to another person. This person had problems
with the book keeping and FAmSCo had no idea how much money was spent.
At some point, we were told that we had no money left (or only $5000 for
the rest of the year) and therefor we dramatically had to cut the
expenses.
This turned out to not me true. In fact we had a lot of money left but
did not spend it. As a result, the budget for 2012 was lower. Then there
was the transition from Red Hat's Community Architecture team to the new
Open Source and Standards group, which also caused delay and confusion.
But I think we've cleared it up, at least from the FAmSCo side.
And this is the main reason for the budget planning effort because it's
much better if you have a clear idea how much you can spend.
What do we learn from this?
* The community needs more power. Having too much power in the
hands of a single person can become a problem when this person
disappears. We should distribute power and workload on more
shoulders.
* We need better controlling. We need to track our expenses.
Ideally, FAmSCo should be in the position to figure out how
much was spent without having to ask somebody.
Jörg, your statics are a good start and will help us a lot to achieve
this. Thanks a lot for your work!
I also thank Jörg for a great report. Hopefully, we'll make a good job
in budget planning for FY2014 and next year we can combine these figures
of actual expenses with planned expenses and it will be even more
interesting and helpful.
Jiri
2:09 p.m.
first i want to point out that i value the work that FAmSCo is doing and
if emails sound like criticism it is not meant to discourage anyone! It
is just how i see it ;)
On 02.01.2013 18:32, Christoph Wickert wrote:
The problem with the FAmSCo reports was that cost is too much time
to
produce them. We didn't discontinue them because we don't think they
were not important any longer, but simply because it was too much work,
especially when they were done monthly.
agreed - having quarterly or reports every 6 month to monitor progress
may be a good signal to the Contributors (not our own Ambassadors but
the other groups) to show them the value of the group and that we create
benefit for the project -
If there is a way to produce
them easily and it this process is documented, we could think about
bringing them back.
Even if we don't, we should have an annual report.
yep i was referring to yearly reports in the blog-post - please note
that we not only reported numbers but also future goals and achievements -
You say you don't see our community develop. I don't think
this is true,
i did not wrote that - please do not twist my points.
I just wrote that i think we are not good in learning from past mistakes
Then there is another important number: Money. You are pointing out
that
in the 7 of 2011, community credit card have spend more money for than
in the complete fiscal year 2012. This is basically the aftermath of Max
leaving which caused a lot of trouble.
you may right if you refer to the whole budget situation - does not
apply for the commcards
This turned out to not me true. In fact we had a lot of money left
exactly the money was there and it was waiting to be spend - which did
not happen
What do we learn from this?
* The community needs more power. Having too much power in the
hands of a single person can become a problem when this person
disappears. We should distribute power and workload on more
shoulders.
yes and no - maybe to complex to explain it here - yes backups are
valuable, but too many cooks spoil the broth
* We need better controlling. We need to track our expenses.
Ideally, FAmSCo should be in the position to figure out how
much was spent without having to ask somebody.
nobody keeps FAmSCo from tracking it´s FAmSCo´s/Ambassadors expenses?
I always believed that FAmSCo is capable of managing a global budget for
Fedora - but this never was achieved for know reasons
Jörg, your statics are a good start and will help us a lot to
achieve
this. Thanks a lot for your work!
One very minor point though: I think the cost distribution is a little
too detailed. E.g. "Parking/Tolls" and "Fuel" can easily be
summarized
under the big "Transportation" portion.
took it from my cost-center reports - so i have to do it this way, anyway
have fun Joerg
--
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
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2:10 p.m.
On 02.01.2013 18:45, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
I also thank Jörg for a great report. Hopefully, we'll make a
good job
in budget planning for FY2014 and next year we can combine these figures
of actual expenses with planned expenses and it will be even more
interesting and helpful.
i am sure ;) you will
--
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
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6:47 a.m.
Am Mittwoch, den 02.01.2013, 21:09 +0100 schrieb Joerg Simon:
first i want to point out that i value the work that FAmSCo is doing
and
if emails sound like criticism it is not meant to discourage anyone! It
is just how i see it ;)
Don't worry Jörg,
I'm pretty sure we understand your motivation and I think we all know
you don't want to flame but encourage. And personally I am very happy to
see you are voicing your opinion again recently.
On 02.01.2013 18:32, Christoph Wickert wrote:
> The problem with the FAmSCo reports was that cost is too much time to
> produce them. We didn't discontinue them because we don't think they
> were not important any longer, but simply because it was too much work,
> especially when they were done monthly.
agreed - having quarterly or reports every 6 month to monitor progress
may be a good signal to the Contributors (not our own Ambassadors but
the other groups) to show them the value of the group and that we create
benefit for the project
Quarterly sounds good!
As the fiscal quarters are two months behind the calendar's quarters,
quarterly reports would give us one month to sort out all the numbers
from the previous quarter. E.g. FY 2012 Q4 lasts from December 2012 till
February 2013 and we would then publish the data with our quarterly
report end of March. Makes sense?
> You say you don't see our community develop. I don't
think this is true,
i did not wrote that - please do not twist my points.
I just wrote that i think we are not good in learning from past mistakes
Ok, understood and signed. :)
Kind regards,
Christoph
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