Re: [Ambassadors] ambassadors Digest, Vol 298, Issue 5

[James Harshaw]

I am new here, and not even officially a mentor yet, but I don't believe
that kicking inactive people is the right way to go. It shouldn't be "Be
part of the team constantly or get kicked." I don't see any benefit. Maybe
in the case of mentors one could put in their status as "presumed
inactive". People have stages of life, and sometimes aren't available for a
long time not because of lack of care or interest  but personal interest.
Maybe mark someone inactive for reference, but removing someone seems
unkind and I don't think it reflects the values Fedora is built on. Again I
am new. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe I am right. Just giving my opinion -  James
On Feb 27, 2014 9:23 AM, 
wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
> Re: Discussion: revoking ambassador status (Jukka Palander)
> Re: Discussion: revoking ambassador status (Jkhatri)
> Re: Discussion: revoking ambassador status (inode0)
> Re: Discussion: revoking ambassador status (Jiri Eischmann)
> Re: Discussion: revoking ambassador status (Itamar Reis Peixoto)
> Re: Discussion: revoking ambassador status (Jiri Eischmann)
> Re: Discussion: revoking ambassador status (inode0)
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 14:26:52 +0100
> From: Jukka Palander 
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Discussion: revoking ambassador status
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hmmmm. excatly.
>
> Let's say me!
>
> I do no do IRQ-meetings, I hardly ever write into the list. I do not go
> to the events (because there are NONE in the Southern Spain and it is
> far too expensive to go elsewhere). I do not create events because I do
> not have money or time to do it.  ....and I do not do "this and that".
>
> What I do, is; I use Fedora every day, I install it in every place where
> I can (and see it possible/feasable/....) and I do spread Fedora
> media/word/information all over the places where I go. Sometimes I go to
> the business meeting presenting completely something else and having
> Fedora polo on and I may "accidently" test the Fedora website when
> testing the Internet connection and whatever pops into my mind.... and
> then sometimes I am known as a "linux man". People say "hey, there comes
> the linux man -please behave now....". Then I try to explain "no, not
> really a linux guy. rather I see myself as a FOSS man, standardization
> man, keep things simple and effective man, a Fedora man"..
>
> I must be a baaaaad and inactive person. Maybe not an Ambassador after all?
>
> --
> Jukka
>
> On 25/02/14 11:25, Danishka Navin wrote:
> > How do we define an active ambassador?
> > by number of mails hitting the list? number of events? IRC meetings?
> >
> > They should not permanently removed from the system but some where others
> > can find those information and invite them back to the project.
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Jiri Eischmann <[e-mail]
> > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > yesterday we had a long discussion about whether we want to have a
> > > mechanism to remove completely inactive ambassadors or not. This issue
> > > is brought up again and again, so I think it's time to discuss it
> > > properly and eventually make a decision.
> > >
> > > You can find more in this ticket:
> > > https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/358
> > >
> > > Feel free to comment (ideally in the ticket to keep all discussion
> > > there), express your opinion, propose modifications, or even different
> > > solutions. You input is welcome.
> > >
> > > Jiri
> > >
> > > --
> > > ambassadors mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
> >
> > --
> > ambassadors mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 19:22:06 +0530
> From: Jkhatri 
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Discussion: revoking ambassador status
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> On Thursday 27 February 2014 06:56 PM, Jukka Palander wrote:
> > Hmmmm. excatly.
> >
> > Let's say me!
> >
> > I do no do IRQ-meetings, I hardly ever write into the list. I do not go
> > to the events (because there are NONE in the Southern Spain and it is
> > far too expensive to go elsewhere). I do not create events because I do
> > not have money or time to do it.  ....and I do not do "this and that".
>
> same here with me... I do send medias to local school or education
> institutions, who directly contacting me instead of using free media
> track..!!!
>
> will you not consider me as an active member ?????
>
> Warm Regards
>
> --
>
> */
>
> Jatin Khatri
>
> RHCSA RHCE CCNA
>
> www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Jatin http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Jatin
>
> Phone [phone]
>
> Save Paper, Save Environment.**
> /*(Plant at least one tree in your life and nurture it !!!)*/
>
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> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 07:52:39 -0600
> From: inode0 
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Discussion: revoking ambassador status
> Message-ID:
>         <CAAHfupkGUOZogWxnELCc2Q_gVRZk1Yv05a3naJH2Y71fjLC0=
> [e-mail]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Jukka Palander 
> wrote:
> > Hmmmm. excatly.
> >
> > Let's say me!
> >
> > I do no do IRQ-meetings, I hardly ever write into the list. I do not go
> > to the events (because there are NONE in the Southern Spain and it is
> > far too expensive to go elsewhere). I do not create events because I do
> > not have money or time to do it.  ....and I do not do "this and that".
> >
> > What I do, is; I use Fedora every day, I install it in every place where
> > I can (and see it possible/feasable/....) and I do spread Fedora
> > media/word/information all over the places where I go. Sometimes I go to
> > the business meeting presenting completely something else and having
> > Fedora polo on and I may "accidently" test the Fedora website when
> > testing the Internet connection and whatever pops into my mind.... and
> > then sometimes I am known as a "linux man". People say "hey, there comes
> > the linux man -please behave now....". Then I try to explain "no, not
> > really a linux guy. rather I see myself as a FOSS man, standardization
> > man, keep things simple and effective man, a Fedora man"..
> >
> > I must be a baaaaad and inactive person. Maybe not an Ambassador after
>
> all?
>
> Hi Jukka,
>
> Seems every few years we go down this path and it upsets a lot of
> people and there is a lot of debate over defining what makes someone
> active or inactive and it hasn't ever resulted in doing anything
> beyond upsetting people that I can recall. Even in areas where
> activity is fairly easy to define I don't know of any other group that
> kicks people out for taking a break and not causing trouble.
>
> I can't imagine how anything good will come from pitting one group
> against another which will be what happens when a group of ambassadors
> in one country/region decide to try to remove the membership of other
> local ambassadors.
>
> Be friends. When some ambassadors stop being active however you define
> that you can step in and fill the void.
>
> John
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 14:57:49 +0100
> From: Jiri Eischmann 
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Discussion: revoking ambassador status
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Please calm down and read the proposal once again.
> IMHO it's pretty obvious from the proposal that it wouldn't affect
> contributors like you.
>
> Once again: we don't want to measure and judge activity of ambassadors.
> It should only affect contributors who have not been in touch with the
> project for a long time, haven't shown any sign of interest in the
> project and don't care about being ambassadors any more.
>
> If we really approves such a change there will be several safety catches
> to avoid removing someone who still wants to be an ambassador. If they
> fail, all you will have to do is to send a message like "Hey, I still
> want to be an ambassador". Or even if all this fails, you come back and
> simply say "Hey, I'm back and I want to be an ambassador again" and
> you'll be added back the status without having to undergo the
> mentoring.
>
> Jiri
>
> Jukka Palander píše v Čt 27. 02. 2014 v 14:26 +0100:
> > Hmmmm. excatly.
> >
> > Let's say me!
> >
> > I do no do IRQ-meetings, I hardly ever write into the list. I do not go
> > to the events (because there are NONE in the Southern Spain and it is
> > far too expensive to go elsewhere). I do not create events because I do
> > not have money or time to do it.  ....and I do not do "this and that".
> >
> > What I do, is; I use Fedora every day, I install it in every place where
> > I can (and see it possible/feasable/....) and I do spread Fedora
> > media/word/information all over the places where I go. Sometimes I go to
> > the business meeting presenting completely something else and having
> > Fedora polo on and I may "accidently" test the Fedora website when
> > testing the Internet connection and whatever pops into my mind.... and
> > then sometimes I am known as a "linux man". People say "hey, there comes
> > the linux man -please behave now....". Then I try to explain "no, not
> > really a linux guy. rather I see myself as a FOSS man, standardization
> > man, keep things simple and effective man, a Fedora man"..
> >
> > I must be a baaaaad and inactive person. Maybe not an Ambassador after
>
> all?
> > --
> > Jukka
> >
> > On 25/02/14 11:25, Danishka Navin wrote:
> > > How do we define an active ambassador?
> > > by number of mails hitting the list? number of events? IRC meetings?
> > >
> > > They should not permanently removed from the system but some where
>
> others
> > > can find those information and invite them back to the project.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Jiri Eischmann <[e-mail]
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > yesterday we had a long discussion about whether we want to have a
> > > > mechanism to remove completely inactive ambassadors or not. This issue
> > > > is brought up again and again, so I think it's time to discuss it
> > > > properly and eventually make a decision.
> > > >
> > > > You can find more in this ticket:
> > > > https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/358
> > > >
> > > > Feel free to comment (ideally in the ticket to keep all discussion
> > > > there), express your opinion, propose modifications, or even different
> > > > solutions. You input is welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Jiri
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ambassadors mailing list
> > > > [e-mail]
> > > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
> > >
> > > --
> > > ambassadors mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
> >
> > --
> > ambassadors mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 11:01:22 -0300
> From: Itamar Reis Peixoto 
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Discussion: revoking ambassador status
> Message-ID:
>         <CACyzUwJBnpysf5V2PwiStKjXX+uEjc=
> [e-mail]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Jiri Eischmann 
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > yesterday we had a long discussion about whether we want to have a
> > mechanism to remove completely inactive ambassadors or not. This issue
> > is brought up again and again, so I think it's time to discuss it
> > properly and eventually make a decision.
> >
> > You can find more in this ticket:
> > https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/358
> >
> > Feel free to comment (ideally in the ticket to keep all discussion
> > there), express your opinion, propose modifications, or even different
> > solutions. You input is welcome.
> >
> > Jiri
>
> in my point of view the main problem is having inactive mentors.
> mentor for me is not the guy that approve new ambassadors .
> new mentors are nominated by current mentors ( for me is not good)
>
> what happens if  you tried to blame the police to the police  ?
> --
>
> Itamar Reis Peixoto
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 15:06:01 +0100
> From: Jiri Eischmann 
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Discussion: revoking ambassador status
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Itamar Reis Peixoto píše v Čt 27. 02. 2014 v 11:01 -0300:
> > On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Jiri Eischmann
>
> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > yesterday we had a long discussion about whether we want to have a
> > > mechanism to remove completely inactive ambassadors or not. This issue
> > > is brought up again and again, so I think it's time to discuss it
> > > properly and eventually make a decision.
> > >
> > > You can find more in this ticket:
> > > https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/358
> > >
> > > Feel free to comment (ideally in the ticket to keep all discussion
> > > there), express your opinion, propose modifications, or even different
> > > solutions. You input is welcome.
> > >
> > > Jiri
> >
> > in my point of view the main problem is having inactive mentors.
> > mentor for me is not the guy that approve new ambassadors .
> > new mentors are nominated by current mentors ( for me is not good)
> >
> > what happens if  you tried to blame the police to the police  ?
>
> This issue is also being discussed:
> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/359
>
> Jiri
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 08:23:17 -0600
> From: inode0 
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Discussion: revoking ambassador status
> Message-ID:
>         <
> [e-mail]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Itamar Reis Peixoto
>  wrote:
> > in my point of view the main problem is having inactive mentors.
> > mentor for me is not the guy that approve new ambassadors .
> > new mentors are nominated by current mentors ( for me is not good)
>
> I can understand not having enough mentors in a region being a
> problem. I can't understand how having an inactive mentor is a
> problem. An inactive mentor is someone the community trusted to
> perform a certain task and who for whatever reason can't at the
> moment. That inactive mentor is like having money in the bank though,
> and when circumstances permit they can begin performing their task
> again. Kick one out and they won't come back.
> > what happens if  you tried to blame the police to the police  ?
>
> Please don't equate mentors with police.
>
> John
>
> --
> ambassadors mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>
> End of ambassadors Digest, Vol 298, Issue 5