something for "legal"?

[Gerold]

Hi friends,

I'm personally really not amused seeing such things:
http://www.linux-onlineshop.de/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=fedora&am...

specially this one:
http://www.linux-onlineshop.de/product_info.php/info/p1204_Fedora-Core-6-ZOD...

It shows me, that somebody has not asked to use "the LOGO" and reads the
guidelines ...

what to do???? Who takes care for such "mistakes" or not fedora-conform
usage of Logo, Name and selling products?

Thanks for your attention and thoughts that issue

Regards

Gerold

Your Accorrdance presumed I wrote him this mail (in German):

"Hallo!

Sie verwenden LOGOS und gemischte geschütze Trademarks in Ihrem Webshop,
die _NICHT_ den Fedora Logo Guidelines entsprechen und entsprechend zu
Problemen führen (können)!

Wir bitten um Kontaktaufnahme!

mit freundlichen Grüßen

Gerold Kassube
Fedora Ambassador Deutschland - Schweiz"

[jose manimala]

Thats a great step you have taken. I think all of us should take note
of such mistakes people make. i'll try and check out some indian
sites.....

jose

[Rodrigo Padula]

Here in Brazil we has the same problem

The site www.linuxmall.com.br commercializes Fedora and Red Hat products
without Red Hat permissions

Rodrigo Padula
Brazil

On 7/8/07, jose manimala  wrote:
> Thats a great step you have taken. I think all of us should take note
> of such mistakes people make. i'll try and check out some indian
> sites.....
>
> jose
>
> --
> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list

[Karlie Robinson]

So is there a tip-line or some other quick way to send these issues to 
legal?

Such as an email address or online form?

[Rahul Sundaram]

Karlie Robinson wrote:
> So is there a tip-line or some other quick way to send these issues to 
> legal?
>
> Such as an email address or online form?

[e-mail]. CC Max Spevack, Greg Dek.

Rahul

[Paul Stauffer]

On Sun, Jul 08, 2007 at 11:11:44AM -0300, Rodrigo Padula wrote:
> The site www.linuxmall.com.br commercializes Fedora and Red Hat products
> without Red Hat permissions

They don't need anyone's permission to "commercialize" Fedora, in the sense
of selling CDs, etc.  Our license gives them that right already.  But it
does look like they may be improperly modifying the Fedora logo, and they
probably also shouldn't be using Red Hat's Shadowman logo to market Fedora
products, which is what it looks like to me (without speaking Portuguese)
on this page: http://www.linuxmall.com.br/index.php?product_id=4675

But of course, I am not a Brazilian lawyer.  Fortunately we have Red Hat's
legal department to sort this stuff out.

- Paul

[Gerold]

you're completly right and correct, ...

my first idea was otherwise: WE inform them that they do a violation and
give them the chance to correct it ...
... and if we don't bring this into a solution we inform then the
"official legal" ...

as told mails before: just an idea and imagination of mine ...

Gerold
> On Sun, Jul 08, 2007 at 11:11:44AM -0300, Rodrigo Padula wrote:
> > The site www.linuxmall.com.br commercializes Fedora and Red Hat products
> > without Red Hat permissions
>
> They don't need anyone's permission to "commercialize" Fedora, in the
> sense
> of selling CDs, etc.  Our license gives them that right already.  But it
> does look like they may be improperly modifying the Fedora logo, and they
> probably also shouldn't be using Red Hat's Shadowman logo to market Fedora
> products, which is what it looks like to me (without speaking Portuguese)
> on this page: http://www.linuxmall.com.br/index.php?product_id=4675
>
> But of course, I am not a Brazilian lawyer.  Fortunately we have Red Hat's
> legal department to sort this stuff out.
> Paul
>
> --
> Paul Stauffer 
> Manager of Research Computing
> Computer Science Department
> Boston University
>
> --
> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list

[Karlie Robinson]

The thing with most things that will eventually need to be handled by 
the legal department should be initiated by legal.

I would think a simple tip line to trigger a "formal" letter would 
handle most of the issues without too much work on the part of the legal 
department.

Gerold wrote:
> you're completly right and correct, ...
>
> my first idea was otherwise: WE inform them that they do a violation and
> give them the chance to correct it ...
> ... and if we don't bring this into a solution we inform then the
> "official legal" ...
>
> as told mails before: just an idea and imagination of mine ...
>
> Gerold
> > On Sun, Jul 08, 2007 at 11:11:44AM -0300, Rodrigo Padula wrote:
> > > The site www.linuxmall.com.br commercializes Fedora and Red Hat products
> > > without Red Hat permissions
> >
> > They don't need anyone's permission to "commercialize" Fedora, in the
> > sense
> > of selling CDs, etc.  Our license gives them that right already.  But it
> > does look like they may be improperly modifying the Fedora logo, and they
> > probably also shouldn't be using Red Hat's Shadowman logo to market Fedora
> > products, which is what it looks like to me (without speaking Portuguese)
> > on this page: http://www.linuxmall.com.br/index.php?product_id=4675
> >
> > But of course, I am not a Brazilian lawyer.  Fortunately we have Red Hat's
> > legal department to sort this stuff out.
> > Paul
> >
> > --
> > Paul Stauffer 
> > Manager of Research Computing
> > Computer Science Department
> > Boston University
> >
> > --
> > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>
> --
> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list

[Saadaldine AlSaidi]

It seems that everything we stand for is collapsing down and something must be 
done. Next meeting "i guess" this issue must be one of our important topics 
to dealing with, at least how to gain some profit from this problem if we 
couldn't stop it.

Regards.
------------------------------
Saadaldine Alsaidi

On Saturday 07 July 2007 22:20, Gerold Kassube wrote:
> Hi friends,
>
> I'm personally really not amused seeing such things:
> http://www.linux-onlineshop.de/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=fedora&am...
> =0&y=0
>
> specially this one:
> http://www.linux-onlineshop.de/product_info.php/info/p1204_Fedora-Core-6-ZO
> D---1-DVD.html
>
> It shows me, that somebody has not asked to use "the LOGO" and reads the
> guidelines ...
>
> what to do???? Who takes care for such "mistakes" or not fedora-conform
> usage of Logo, Name and selling products?
>
> Thanks for your attention and thoughts that issue
>
> Regards
>
> Gerold
>
> Your Accorrdance presumed I wrote him this mail (in German):
>
> "Hallo!
>
> Sie verwenden LOGOS und gemischte geschütze Trademarks in Ihrem Webshop,
> die _NICHT_ den Fedora Logo Guidelines entsprechen und entsprechend zu
> Problemen führen (können)!
>
> Wir bitten um Kontaktaufnahme!
>
> mit freundlichen Grüßen
>
> Gerold Kassube
> Fedora Ambassador Deutschland - Schweiz"

[Thomas Chung]

On 7/8/07, SaadAlDine AlSaidi  wrote:
> It seems that everything we stand for is collapsing down and something must be
> done. Next meeting "i guess" this issue must be one of our important topics
> to dealing with, at least how to gain some profit from this problem if we
> couldn't stop it.

This is not an issuw we, Ambassador Project should be dealing with but
Red Hat legal team should for Trademark issue. Also we have a
Distribution Project who can assist Red Hat to resolve this issue.

Regards,

[Gerold]

Hi Thomas (and all other),

Am Sonntag, den 08.07.2007, 01:21 -0700 schrieb Thomas Chung:
> On 7/8/07, SaadAlDine AlSaidi  wrote:
> > It seems that everything we stand for is collapsing down and something must be
> > done. Next meeting "i guess" this issue must be one of our important topics
> > to dealing with, at least how to gain some profit from this problem if we
> > couldn't stop it.
>
> This is not an issuw we, Ambassador Project should be dealing with but
> Red Hat legal team should for Trademark issue. Also we have a
> Distribution Project who can assist Red Hat to resolve this issue.

^^

as I wrote in my first mail, I also informed the Red Hat legal Person in
Germany (Office Munich) also with my mail.
But btw. it is really a issue, that we need e.g. an "official
department" which takes care for this or such violations, which is
educated within the whole Logo- and Trademark Situation in each Country.
Means that every person who saw an "maybe violation" will inform the
"department" and the department looks and takes contact to the persons
and clears the situation; in worst case with Red Hat legal :-(

Please remember in this case also the first FAD Announcement from
December 2006 regarding Webpages ....

Just my thoughts ....

Regards

Gerold

[Rahul Sundaram]

Gerold Kassube wrote:
> as I wrote in my first mail, I also informed the Red Hat legal Person in
> Germany (Office Munich) also with my mail.
> But btw. it is really a issue, that we need e.g. an "official
> department" which takes care for this or such violations, which is
> educated within the whole Logo- and Trademark Situation in each Country.

How do you think folks without legal expertise can work in such a 
department?

Rahul

[Gerold]

Am Sonntag, den 08.07.2007, 16:27 +0530 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
> Gerold Kassube wrote:
> > as I wrote in my first mail, I also informed the Red Hat legal Person in
> > Germany (Office Munich) also with my mail.
> > But btw. it is really a issue, that we need e.g. an "official
> > department" which takes care for this or such violations, which is
> > educated within the whole Logo- and Trademark Situation in each Country.
>
> How do you think folks without legal expertise can work in such a 
> department?

^^
Rahul, ...

not only a few have studied (like me) and have a basic knowledge of
local law, ...
... but are no laywer or working as a legal.

Those people could see and argue first to the people who did a violation
and after they come to a good solution, the "official legal department"
of RH must be informed.

Let's say it like this: we have a first "good try" and way with our own
persons and if we don't get a solution we have to move and give over to
the legal. I think that's a fair way ...

Gerold

[Rahul Sundaram]

Gerold Kassube wrote:
> Let's say it like this: we have a first "good try" and way with our own
> persons and if we don't get a solution we have to move and give over to
> the legal. I think that's a fair way ...

Yes. That would work. I would prefer if we write down a standard 
template and use that. Please be courteous and discrete when handling 
such issues.

Rahul

[Florian Brand]

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Gerold Kassube wrote:
> Hi friends,
>
> I'm personally really not amused seeing such things:
> http://www.linux-onlineshop.de/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=fedora&am...
> It shows me, that somebody has not asked to use "the LOGO" and reads the
> guidelines ...

seems to me that some 'education' is required :)
> Sie verwenden LOGOS und gemischte geschütze Trademarks in Ihrem Webshop,
> die _NICHT_ den Fedora Logo Guidelines entsprechen und entsprechend zu
> Problemen führen (können)!

mmmmm, maybe for first time 'offenders' we should be a little more
gentle (without using capital letters) :) and also state why would like
that our official trademarks are used as described in the guidelines.
That is IMHO better than to use a 'Thou shalt not' approach.

Cheers
Florian

- --
Florian Brand
Chief Instructor EMEA

Red Hat GmbH, Hauptstätter Strasse 58, 70178 Stuttgart
Phone: [phone] (w) * [phone] (m)
Court of Registry: Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRB 153243
Managing Directors: Brendan Lane, Charlie Peters,
Michael Cunningham, Werner Knoblich
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