Fedora might not have a booth as .org (here in Strasbourg, France), great !!!!
After more than two hours of discussion (on thursday night) with local LUGs members about Fedora's presence as an organization, it might happened that I can't convince my lugs members (and myself). I WAS introduced to the Fedora Project.
It all started with : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2006-April/msg00016.htm... (which I haven't read before) versus the initial objectives of the Fedora Project.
Below are some of the topics discussed, please don't try to fool me around with URLS.
I've already made myself a fool today, (thanks) and if there's no CONCRETE information given to Fedora Ambassadors, personally The Fedora Ambassador project needs to be revised.
I've nothing against with Red Hat but instead I feel that Fedora is making a fool out of us, free contributors.
#001 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UnleashKDE
KDE will be Extras soon for the release of Fedora Core 7, according to UnleashKDE. Really unleash isn't the right word here, it sounds like DUMPING KDE.
Question 1a: The Fedora Project is a community driven project, sponsored by Red Hat. But here, it shows clearly that there are 2 groups, Red Hat and Community. In this wiki page, there's a lot of 'Red Hat's.
Answer 1a: To answer this Q1, I've listed the authors on this wiki page : RahulSundaram : (starter) Red Hat Rex Dieter : Community PatrickBarnes : Community, I guess from my private chat on IRC with him.
Question 1b: Fedora Ambassadors are requested to stay neutral concerning KDE and GNOME. It is clear that moving KDE from Core to Extras this is not Neutral!!
Answer 1b: It doesn't make any difference because anaconda will have integrated features to choose Extras packages during the Install.
Personal thoughts: Fedora will turn out to be like Ubuntu, where there will be paid developpers from Canonical to work on gnome. And also this contradicts greg's words on the Umeet Conference: http://umeet.uninet.edu/umeet2005/talks/?lang=en&s=fedora @gregdek * And Fedora Ambassadors, in which we encourage individuals to be advocates for Fedora, Linux and open source in their communities, and to whom we provide as much support as we can in doing these things.
This means that we, the community and Fedora ambassadors, shall advocate KDE with Fedora, since there sounds like to be a division between Red Hat and Community.
Ambassadors were once told in the Ambassador wiki page to redirect any discussions concerning RedHat towards RedHat representatives. This statement is not longer available on the wiki. Why ?
#002 -- #004 TO BE CONTINUED !!
Just to end (for today), how can the community help the project if event organizers such as Linuxtag (Wiesbaden) does not consider Fedora as an organisation ? It's true that now, Mac's email is supporting Linuxtag's statement.
Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com
On Saturday 08 April 2006 19:45, "Chitlesh GOORAH" chitlesh@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Fedora might not have a booth as .org (here in Strasbourg, France), great !!!!
After more than two hours of discussion (on thursday night) with local LUGs members about Fedora's presence as an organization, it might happened that I can't convince my lugs members (and myself). I WAS introduced to the Fedora Project.
It all started with : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2006-April/msg00016.ht ml (which I haven't read before) versus the initial objectives of the Fedora Project.
Maintaining Fedora is more important that creating an independent organization for it. If we created the Fedora Foundation and made it responsible for everything, it would be impossible for Red Hat to provide the massive contributions and sponsorship that it currently does. The contributions Red Hat could make would be dependent upon how much is collected from the community, which couldn't even come close to what would be required for a non-profit foundation. Without the massive contributions from Red Hat, the Fedora Project would be impossible to maintain. This is really the single biggest reason not to create the foundation. The other reasons outlined in the announcement can be considered secondary.
Below are some of the topics discussed, please don't try to fool me around with URLS.
I've already made myself a fool today, (thanks) and if there's no CONCRETE information given to Fedora Ambassadors, personally The Fedora Ambassador project needs to be revised.
What more concrete information are you looking for? All of the facts are public information.
I've nothing against with Red Hat but instead I feel that Fedora is making a fool out of us, free contributors.
#001 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UnleashKDE
KDE will be Extras soon for the release of Fedora Core 7, according to UnleashKDE.
This is only a proposal, not an official plan.
Really unleash isn't the right word here, it sounds like DUMPING KDE.
Question 1a: The Fedora Project is a community driven project, sponsored by Red Hat. But here, it shows clearly that there are 2 groups, Red Hat and Community. In this wiki page, there's a lot of 'Red Hat's.
Red Hat, up to this point, has maintained Fedora Core almost entirely on its own, without much involvement from the community. Fedora Extras, on the other hand, is a massive community effort that has a number of contributors from the community as well as from Red Hat. The Infrastructure team is working to open up Core to the community more. This distinction is what that page addresses. Fedora is a community project, but Red Hat's position and involvement cannot be ignored. The distinction between Red Hat and the community is necessary to measure where the project is and where it is going.
Answer 1a: To answer this Q1, I've listed the authors on this wiki page : RahulSundaram : (starter) Red Hat Rex Dieter : Community PatrickBarnes : Community, I guess from my private chat on IRC with him.
Yes, I am a community member, not a Red Hat employee, and I am the original ad principal author of the document.
Question 1b: Fedora Ambassadors are requested to stay neutral concerning KDE and GNOME. It is clear that moving KDE from Core to Extras this is not Neutral!!
You have to remember that we wish to meld Core and Extras to a point where users do not make the distinction. GNOME is, and will continue to be, the default desktop for Fedora. Moving KDE to Extras allows a default installation to consume less space on the distribution media and also reduces the risk of confusion among new Linux users over the desktop environments.
Answer 1b: It doesn't make any difference because anaconda will have integrated features to choose Extras packages during the Install.
Personal thoughts: Fedora will turn out to be like Ubuntu, where there will be paid developpers from Canonical to work on gnome. And also this contradicts greg's words on the Umeet Conference: http://umeet.uninet.edu/umeet2005/talks/?lang=en&s=fedora @gregdek * And Fedora Ambassadors, in which we encourage individuals to be advocates for Fedora, Linux and open source in their communities, and to whom we provide as much support as we can in doing these things.
Red Hat has had paid developers working on GNOME since long before the creation of Fedora and certainly long before Ubuntu ever even existed. With all of the commercial sponsorship of GNOME, nobody complains. Why is the situation so different for Fedora? It certainly shouldn't be. It isn't like Red Hat could ever "take back" Fedora -- it could be easily forked by the community if Red Hat decided to discontinue their support. The licenses surrounding Fedora guarantee that. I would be a the forefront of that effort if Red Hat betrayed Fedora, but they have no reason to. It would not be in their best interests, and I do not believe they would ever do so. They continue to fund projects that do not directly contribute to the technologies they pull into RHEL, such as the Ambassadors project, and will keep doing so for the foreseeable future.
This means that we, the community and Fedora ambassadors, shall advocate KDE with Fedora, since there sounds like to be a division between Red Hat and Community.
The division is only a logistical one. Ambassadors can advocate the availability of KDE, but should make it clear that GNOME is the default. The full package sets of both Core and Extras should be pushed by Ambassadors without any special preference for one option over another.
Ambassadors were once told in the Ambassador wiki page to redirect any discussions concerning RedHat towards RedHat representatives. This statement is not longer available on the wiki. Why ?
I don't know where this statement was printed, but it remains true. Fedora Ambassadors cannot speak on behalf of Red Hat, so matters that are specific to Red Hat should be referred to Red Hat's teams.
#002 -- #004 TO BE CONTINUED !!
Just to end (for today), how can the community help the project if event organizers such as Linuxtag (Wiesbaden) does not consider Fedora as an organisation ? It's true that now, Mac's email is supporting Linuxtag's statement.
Fedora is not the only community distribution that is entirely sponsored by a larger commercial entity. Many of these events' organizers have their favorite distributions to which they will be loyal, but even those distributions are rarely independent of commercial interests. Event organizers who pick and choose who they will support among free distributions are only damaging the advancement of free Linux solutions. LinuxTag has failed to justify how they classify Fedora and the other free distributions, and so they are guilty of failing the community. We are unwilling to be bullied by such people.
Ubuntu, for example, only exists because of the commercial interests that have propelled it to its current standing. Since that commercial interest is not clearly advertised and didn't have a well-known history with Linux prior to the creation of the distribution, many members of the Linux community conveniently ignore this commercial backing. They have a tendency to mark large companies that make money supporting Linux as being evil, and so they target Red Hat without any justification.
Red Hat, Novell, and IBM all face the same challenges in proving where they stand with Linux, but do more for the advancement of Linux than anyone else even dreams of.
No company has made the same kinds of contributions to Linux as Red Hat has. Nobody has been pushing Linux to the world longer or harder than Red Hat. If others want to consider Red Hat as being evil, then they haven't done their research and won't get any respect from me.
If I didn't think that Fedora was an outstanding free distribution, and that Red Hat presented any risk to the success or freedom of the project, I wouldn't be here. I am in a unique position to understand Red Hat's goals with regard to Fedora, and have seen the honest goals of the Red Hat employees who are involved with Fedora, and I have complete confidence that Red Hat will continue to do the right thing for Fedora and for Linux.
If I didn't think that Fedora was an outstanding free distribution, and that Red Hat presented any risk to the success or freedom of the project, I wouldn't be here. I am in a unique position to understand Red Hat's goals with regard to Fedora, and have seen the honest goals of the Red Hat employees who are involved with Fedora, and I have complete confidence that Red Hat will continue to do the right thing for Fedora and for Linux.
I share the same thoughts :) that explains my contribution to the Project. Like I said, I have nothing against Red Hat. By the way, I'm FOR RedHat's sponsoring because I don't want Fedora to end up like Debian.
Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com
#001 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UnleashKDE
KDE will be Extras soon for the release of Fedora Core 7, according to UnleashKDE. Really unleash isn't the right word here, it sounds like DUMPING KDE.
Well, actually I think it would be a good thing for KDE in Fedora. I'm a KDE user, and I use Rex Dieter's KDE packages from kde-redhat.sf.net. The work he (and the kde-redhat team, but mainly he) does on these packages is absolutely outstanding. He proposes the latest KDE, the day it's out, for every FC release since even the days of Red Hat 7.3, plus RHEL 3 & 4. And the packages are of extremely good quality.
If the KDE packages can be maintained by the community, including of course Rex, (+ the current Red Hat maintainer) instead of the current Red Hat maintainer only, I'm convinced KDE would get much more love and be much more polished than it is now. The kde-redhat team just knows KDE better.
In my opinion, "Unleash KDE" is the right word. But since Fedora is commited to proposing both environments at install time, we need to be able to install from Extras in Anaconda, plus we need to do the work of moving KDE out of core, with all the dependencies, and that's just a lot of work.
Aurélien.
Le dimanche 09 avril 2006 à 09:16 +0200, Aurelien Bompard a écrit :
#001 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UnleashKDE
KDE will be Extras soon for the release of Fedora Core 7, according to UnleashKDE. Really unleash isn't the right word here, it sounds like DUMPING KDE.
Well, actually I think it would be a good thing for KDE in Fedora. I'm a KDE user, and I use Rex Dieter's KDE packages from kde-redhat.sf.net. The work he (and the kde-redhat team, but mainly he) does on these packages is absolutely outstanding. He proposes the latest KDE, the day it's out, for every FC release since even the days of Red Hat 7.3, plus RHEL 3 & 4. And the packages are of extremely good quality.
If the KDE packages can be maintained by the community, including of course Rex, (+ the current Red Hat maintainer) instead of the current Red Hat maintainer only, I'm convinced KDE would get much more love and be much more polished than it is now. The kde-redhat team just knows KDE better.
However, I'm afraid that a Fedora Kubuntu-like may be released one day. Fedora would be a base on which one team add GNOME on it while another team is adding KDE on it. I'm more afraid of deviding the comunity that anything else.
In my opinion, "Unleash KDE" is the right word. But since Fedora is commited to proposing both environments at install time, we need to be able to install from Extras in Anaconda, plus we need to do the work of moving KDE out of core, with all the dependencies, and that's just a lot of work.
Having to connect yourself to the internet during the installation process, with dhcp, is *absolutely* not user-friendly at all. Wouldn't it be easier to have : Fedora base : 2 cds Gnome : 1 cds KDE : 1 cds
and a question in anaconda asking "what cds do you have?", and then suggesting the right packages thanks to the answer we provided.
It sounds that i'm off topic here :)
Thomas
Hi
In my opinion, "Unleash KDE" is the right word. But since Fedora is commited to proposing both environments at install time, we need to be able to install from Extras in Anaconda, plus we need to do the work of moving KDE out of core, with all the dependencies, and that's just a lot of work.
Having to connect yourself to the internet during the installation process, with dhcp, is *absolutely* not user-friendly at all.
Why does Fedora installation require a net connection? Not sure what you are talking about here.
Wouldn't it be easier to have : Fedora base : 2 cds Gnome : 1 cds KDE : 1 cds
and a question in anaconda asking "what cds do you have?", and then suggesting the right packages thanks to the answer we provided.
It sounds that i'm off topic here :)
Yes you are. These ideas have been suggested before and generally been accepted as good ones. Just need people, resources and time to work on it.
Rahul
Le dimanche 09 avril 2006 à 13:57 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a écrit :
Hi
In my opinion, "Unleash KDE" is the right word. But since Fedora is commited to proposing both environments at install time, we need to be able to install from Extras in Anaconda, plus we need to do the work of moving KDE out of core, with all the dependencies, and that's just a lot of work.
Having to connect yourself to the internet during the installation process, with dhcp, is *absolutely* not user-friendly at all.
Why does Fedora installation require a net connection? Not sure what you are talking about here.
If wa are able to install a packages from Extras in Anaconda during the installation process, then we need to be connected to the internet, needn't we?
Perhaps i don't understand everything very well, it's sunday morning :)
Thomas
Wouldn't it be easier to have : Fedora base : 2 cds Gnome : 1 cds KDE : 1 cds
and a question in anaconda asking "what cds do you have?", and then suggesting the right packages thanks to the answer we provided.
It sounds that i'm off topic here :)
Yes you are. These ideas have been suggested before and generally been accepted as good ones. Just need people, resources and time to work on it.
Rahul
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
On Sun, 2006-04-09 at 10:57 +0200, Thomas Canniot wrote:
Le dimanche 09 avril 2006 à 13:57 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a écrit :
Hi
In my opinion, "Unleash KDE" is the right word. But since Fedora is commited to proposing both environments at install time, we need to be able to install from Extras in Anaconda, plus we need to do the work of moving KDE out of core, with all the dependencies, and that's just a lot of work.
Having to connect yourself to the internet during the installation process, with dhcp, is *absolutely* not user-friendly at all.
Why does Fedora installation require a net connection? Not sure what you are talking about here.
If wa are able to install a packages from Extras in Anaconda during the installation process, then we need to be connected to the internet, needn't we?
That is one option.
Perhaps i don't understand everything very well, it's sunday morning :)
Fedora Extras could be spinned into ISO images too.
Rahul
However, I'm afraid that a Fedora Kubuntu-like may be released one day. Fedora would be a base on which one team add GNOME on it while another team is adding KDE on it. I'm more afraid of deviding the comunity that anything else.
I'm afraid about that too. I don't want to divide the community as well.
I prefer to see Red Hat and the Community to work together, even if it concerns KDE and GNOME. RedHat's participation and the Community's participation should not divide them.
Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com
On Sun, 2006-04-09 at 13:44 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
However, I'm afraid that a Fedora Kubuntu-like may be released one day. Fedora would be a base on which one team add GNOME on it while another team is adding KDE on it. I'm more afraid of deviding the comunity that anything else.
I'm afraid about that too. I don't want to divide the community as well.
I prefer to see Red Hat and the Community to work together, even if it concerns KDE and GNOME. RedHat's participation and the Community's participation should not divide them.
You did read the announcement in full, didn't you? ;-D /me knows it is long, but it is worth it
Rex Dieter is one of the community members of the new Fedora Project Board.
In case it is not obvious, the Fedora organization goes kind of like this:
Project Board Chair Project Board Project Management Committee (PMC) Chairs PMCs PMC Sub-committees
PMCs are FAMSCo, FESCo, FDSCo, and so forth.
In other words, Red Dieter is now our Fedora "boss" ;-)
So, I wouldn't be too worried about a Fedora, GNOME, and KDE schism happening anytime soon.
- Karsten
However, I'm afraid that a Fedora Kubuntu-like may be released one day. Fedora would be a base on which one team add GNOME on it while another team is adding KDE on it. I'm more afraid of deviding the comunity that anything else.
Talking about Kubuntu!! Sounds like the contributors are on strike : http://kubuntu.de/
English version:
This website, including the forum, the mailing lists and the respective IRC channels (#kubuntu-de and #kubuntu-de-team) has one aim: to support the community, to offer a platform to the users of Kubuntu and, last but not least, to boost the Kubuntu-project so as to make it an outstanding distribution.
We all from the kubuntu.de - team have poursuited this aim together, but most of the work has been done by Andreas Müller (amu). He is not only co-founder and unpayed developer of the Kubuntu-project, but he's also hosting this website and he's taking over all the arising expenses.
During our endeavours for Kubuntu, there were made several requests to Canonical (e.g. concerning the status of Kubuntu in comparison with Ubuntu, reactivation of amu's account on kubuntu.org). All those requests are unanswered till today!
Up to now, there is only one payed developer (Jonatha Riddell). Since Canonical ignores all our personal and partly financial engagement until now we have to assume that Canonical is not willing to make Kubuntu a "1st class distribution".
The current status is unfortunately not acceptable at all and it is endangering the continuity and especially the further development of Kubuntu.
Unless all the requests made by Andreas Müller are answered till 15.04.2006
* kubuntu.de ll shut down including its forum and mailing lists * Amu will stop developing Kubuntu * there will be no booth at LinuxTag
To clarify the seriousness of the situation, kubuntu.de will be offline for one week beginning as from monday, 10.04.2006.
If you want to help us, please refer to the interational mailing list of Ubuntu and Kubuntu.
The team Amu (Andreas Müller) Urmelchen (René Fischer) Apachelogger (Harald Sitter) Zerlinna (Mirjam Wäckerlin)
On Sun, 2006-04-09 at 02:45 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
Fedora might not have a booth as .org (here in Strasbourg, France), great !!!!
After more than two hours of discussion (on thursday night) with local LUGs members about Fedora's presence as an organization, it might happened that I can't convince my lugs members (and myself). I WAS introduced to the Fedora Project.
It all started with : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2006-April/msg00016.htm... (which I haven't read before) versus the initial objectives of the Fedora Project.
Below are some of the topics discussed, please don't try to fool me around with URLS.
You can be critical without being rude.
I've already made myself a fool today, (thanks) and if there's no CONCRETE information given to Fedora Ambassadors, personally The Fedora Ambassador project needs to be revised.
The above announcement is as concrete as it gets. What needs to be revised in this project?
I've nothing against with Red Hat but instead I feel that Fedora is making a fool out of us, free contributors.
in what way?
#001 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UnleashKDE
KDE will be Extras soon for the release of Fedora Core 7, according to UnleashKDE. Really unleash isn't the right word here, it sounds like DUMPING KDE.
Why do you feel so? Remember that this is only a proposal as indicated in the page.
Question 1a: The Fedora Project is a community driven project, sponsored by Red Hat. But here, it shows clearly that there are 2 groups, Red Hat and Community. In this wiki page, there's a lot of 'Red Hat's.
I see it as Red Hat being part of the community. Red Hat and the external community working is the whole idea behind the project.
Answer 1a: To answer this Q1, I've listed the authors on this wiki page : RahulSundaram : (starter) Red Hat
I just imported the page Patrick Barnes started as I have noted in the change log. I have been contributing to Fedora long before I joined Red Hat and continue to do so on my own time. So whatever I do is done in my own interests and not on the behalf of Red Hat (just so that you get a clearer picture).
Rex Dieter : Community PatrickBarnes : Community, I guess from my private chat on IRC with him.
Question 1b: Fedora Ambassadors are requested to stay neutral concerning KDE and GNOME. It is clear that moving KDE from Core to Extras this is not Neutral!!
We have been working on reducing the differences between core and extras to the point that it doesnt matter to the end user which repository the package is. Thats a implementation detail.
Answer 1b: It doesn't make any difference because anaconda will have integrated features to choose Extras packages during the Install.
Why do you feel so? Extras being integrated with the installer is a critical factor in being able to reorganize the packages. If KDE is moved into Fedora Extras, the external community can help in improving KDE packaging more directly and since the installer would list KDE, XFCE etc along with GNOME users would be able to choose their desktop environment more easily.
Personal thoughts: Fedora will turn out to be like Ubuntu, where there will be paid developpers from Canonical to work on gnome.
Red Hat already contributes heavily to GNOME development and probably is the largest corporate contributor. I cant see more contributions from Canonical or anyone else as being a bad thing.
And also this contradicts greg's words on the Umeet Conference: http://umeet.uninet.edu/umeet2005/talks/?lang=en&s=fedora @gregdek * And Fedora Ambassadors, in which we encourage individuals to be advocates for Fedora, Linux and open source in their communities, and to whom we provide as much support as we can in doing these things.
This means that we, the community and Fedora ambassadors, shall advocate KDE with Fedora, since there sounds like to be a division between Red Hat and Community.
Fedora Ambassadors would hopefully set aside their own preferences and advocate diversity and choice as a advantage that benefits end users.
Ambassadors were once told in the Ambassador wiki page to redirect any discussions concerning RedHat towards RedHat representatives. This statement is not longer available on the wiki. Why ?
Not sure. Add it back again if you want to.
#002 -- #004 TO BE CONTINUED !!
Just to end (for today), how can the community help the project if event organizers such as Linuxtag (Wiesbaden) does not consider Fedora as an organisation ? It's true that now, Mac's email is supporting Linuxtag's statement.
It would better if event organizers treat take into account the differences between projects regardless of the organizations behind them. Linux Tag funding has been discussed by the steering committee and we agreed to go ahead. I think the details were posted publicly earlier but the question on tackling the broader issue still stands.
Rahul
Below are some of the topics discussed, please don't try to fool me around with URLS.
You can be critical without being rude.
Im not rude :) I prefer things to be discussed :) What I wish, is that there must be information provided to the Fedora Ambassador Project. A Fedora Ambassador must have sufficient tools to pass on the CORRECT information, especially during events.
Hence, I propose that the Steering Community tries to gather specific updates concerning THE FEDORA PROJECT, here and there and inform the ambassadors whose task is to spread the word about the Fedora Project.
These updates might be available maybe available weekly. I strongly advise Fedora Ambassadors as well to read ThomasChung's FWN.
Example of such updates might be : - Mac's letter - effects on contributors and why; for e.g - Unleash KDE: - how things are moving - Artwork : .......
I think this could be considered as the previously launch WordOfMouth by Clair's.
I prefer to see the Fedora Ambassador Project to move forward. TalkingPoints are good. But its not enough to spread the word about the Fedora Project.
Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com
On Sun, 2006-04-09 at 13:37 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
Below are some of the topics discussed, please don't try to fool me around with URLS.
You can be critical without being rude.
Im not rude :) I prefer things to be discussed :)
Statements like everyone is being fooled is not a good way to start a discussion. There is value is healthy discussions and debates but presumptions make it harder to be level headed. Ask rather than assume.
What I wish, is that there must be information provided to the Fedora Ambassador Project.
Information is passed to the entire world. You can as a ambassador read about them too. Ambassadors are not privileged with extra information. This is not a closed club. You can as a fellow contributor ask questions like any of us.
A Fedora Ambassador must have sufficient tools to pass on the CORRECT information, especially during events.
Hence, I propose that the Steering Community tries to gather specific updates concerning THE FEDORA PROJECT, here and there and inform the ambassadors whose task is to spread the word about the Fedora Project.
Just read the fedora announce lists and things like Red Hat magazine which includes a Fedora status report and fedoranews.org. http://planet.fedoraproject.org is also interesting at times.
Rahul
On 4/9/06, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Sun, 2006-04-09 at 13:37 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
Below are some of the topics discussed, please don't try to fool me around with URLS.
You can be critical without being rude.
Im not rude :) I prefer things to be discussed :)
Statements like everyone is being fooled is not a good way to start a discussion. There is value is healthy discussions and debates but presumptions make it harder to be level headed. Ask rather than assume.
What I wish, is that there must be information provided to the Fedora Ambassador Project.
Information is passed to the entire world. You can as a ambassador read about them too. Ambassadors are not privileged with extra information. This is not a closed club. You can as a fellow contributor ask questions like any of us.
A Fedora Ambassador must have sufficient tools to pass on the CORRECT information, especially during events.
Hence, I propose that the Steering Community tries to gather specific updates concerning THE FEDORA PROJECT, here and there and inform the ambassadors whose task is to spread the word about the Fedora Project.
Just read the fedora announce lists and things like Red Hat magazine which includes a Fedora status report and fedoranews.org. http://planet.fedoraproject.org is also interesting at times.
Rahul
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
I've been with the Project for a long time now. I know the Fedora Project, which explains my commitment to it.
But here I'm talking about the Fedora Ambassador Project. The Newcomers to the Ambassador Project, (right now we are 110) who need to be guided/informed for a while.
They are the ones who need to be informed.
The Fedora Project has grown since, got a new logo which reflects certain qualities about the Fedora Project.
That is why Im asking, let's keep this standard., at least for the Fedora Ambassador Project.
We shouldn't assume that everyone reads those News. We have to at least from time to time remind ambassadors about certain sources.
Every Ambassador got their Fedora Business cards, email alias etc... It's good but if Ambassadors are not privileged with extra information, are these worth ?
PS: As for my event (Strasbourg), I know I can convince those guys for a .org booth and I will do it, not now but soon.
On Sun, 2006-04-09 at 14:59 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
I've been with the Project for a long time now. I know the Fedora Project, which explains my commitment to it.
But here I'm talking about the Fedora Ambassador Project. The Newcomers to the Ambassador Project, (right now we are 110) who need to be guided/informed for a while.
They are the ones who need to be informed.
We can facilitate it and we already do that but ambassadors should be educating themselves about the project.
The Fedora Project has grown since, got a new logo which reflects certain qualities about the Fedora Project.
That is why Im asking, let's keep this standard., at least for the Fedora Ambassador Project.
We shouldn't assume that everyone reads those News. We have to at least from time to time remind ambassadors about certain sources.
I dont assume everyone reads these news but if anyone is interested in the project enough to be an ambassadors, I would definitely expect them to keep themselves informed on the major changes. If you want to help others in this regard, you can summarize and post useful information on a weekly basis to this list. It can even been included in the weekly reports (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Projects/WeeklyReports/Archive) or fedoranews.org and other places.
Every Ambassador got their Fedora Business cards, email alias etc... It's good but if Ambassadors are not privileged with extra information, are these worth ?
Sure they are. Everybody gets the same information. Whatever is useful information for the ambassadors would be useful to everybody that is interested in the project. You dont have to be an ambassadors to learn and understand the project and that in my opinion is the way it should be. Feel free to ask questions if required to clarify anything that is not clear to you.
Rahul
On Sun, 2006-04-09 at 20:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On Sun, 2006-04-09 at 14:59 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
They are the ones who need to be informed.
We can facilitate it and we already do that but ambassadors should be educating themselves about the project.
Not all ambassadors have the time to read planet fedora every few days, and subscribing to the fedora-announce list usually results in a large amount of messages you DON'T want to read, and only a few that you do.
I think when something major happens, there SHOULD be an announcement here on the list. I'm not talking about private/privi info.
I still haven't seen an announce on the list about the Fedora Foundation.
How many ambassadors know what happened?
Gja
On Monday 10 April 2006 05:56, Tejas Dinkar tejasdinkar@gmail.com wrote:
Not all ambassadors have the time to read planet fedora every few days, and subscribing to the fedora-announce list usually results in a large amount of messages you DON'T want to read, and only a few that you do.
fedora-announce-list is a low-traffic list. Major announcements, a few update notifications, and weekly summaries from FedoraNEWS.ORG are all that hit fedora-announce-list.
I think when something major happens, there SHOULD be an announcement here on the list. I'm not talking about private/privi info.
If an Ambassador wishes to post information to this list, they are welcome to do so, but the individual projects never receive unique announcements.
I still haven't seen an announce on the list about the Fedora Foundation.
How many ambassadors know what happened?
In opting to be a Fedora Ambassador, each participant promises a certain amount of effort to the Fedora Project. We aren't going to hand-feed everything to the Ambassadors. It is the responsibility of each and every Ambassador to read our news and keep track of what is happening. With all of the effort that the other contributors put into the Fedora Project, it isn't asking much of Ambassadors to read fedora-announce-list.
On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 10:28 -0500, Patrick W. Barnes wrote:
It is the responsibility of each and every Ambassador to read our news and keep track of what is happening. With all of the effort that the other contributors put into the Fedora Project, it isn't asking much of Ambassadors to read fedora-announce-list.
It is also within the power of each Ambassador to re-post an announcement to this list.
It *is* difficult to keep on top of all the news in a timely manner. This is where we can help each other. Max Spevack did the right thing in posting only and directly to fedora-announce-list as _the_ announcement list for the project v. spamming other lists. Anyone here could have redirected it to this list.
- Karsten
On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 16:26 +0530, Tejas Dinkar wrote:
On Sun, 2006-04-09 at 20:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On Sun, 2006-04-09 at 14:59 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
They are the ones who need to be informed.
We can facilitate it and we already do that but ambassadors should be educating themselves about the project.
Not all ambassadors have the time to read planet fedora every few days, and subscribing to the fedora-announce list usually results in a large amount of messages you DON'T want to read, and only a few that you do.
Exactly which is why I didnt insist on everyone reading the planet.
I think when something major happens, there SHOULD be an announcement here on the list. I'm not talking about private/privi info.
I still haven't seen an announce on the list about the Fedora Foundation.
How many ambassadors know what happened?
fedoranews.org, Red Hat magazine and fedora announce list covers most of the important news.
Rahul
It would better if event organizers treat take into account the differences between projects regardless of the organizations behind them. Linux Tag funding has been discussed by the steering committee and we agreed to go ahead. I think the details were posted publicly earlier but the question on tackling the broader issue still stands.
For this, we (The Fedora Project) have to make it clear about our standing as organization on a wiki page. This might help both - the Fedora ambassadors, who are applying for a booth. - event organizers, to understand the project.
Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Aurelien Bompard -
Chitlesh GOORAH -
Karsten Wade -
Patrick W. Barnes -
Rahul Sundaram -
Tejas Dinkar -
Thomas Canniot