Default media size

[Jaroslav Reznik]

Hi,
as you probably know, there's a huge thread on fedora-devel
regarding default media size [1] because of MiniDebugInfo and
FESCo is looking what are the consequences of breaking current
limit.

I think the Ambassadors are stake holders here as it can influence
the ability to distribute Fedora, also we're closest to our users. 

For EMEA there's only one limitation - we should be able fit all 
four spins in 32/64 bit versions to Multi Desktop Live DVD.
Christoph mentioned he's willing to sacrifice Sugar offering.

What about other regions? Is the CD size the must? Or we can break it?
Talking about production costs of medias, users able to use different
methods to install Fedora etc., enough size flash drive availability/
affordability... Any thoughts?

Jaroslav

[1] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-May/166837.html
-- 
Jaroslav Řezník <jreznik(a)redhat.com&gt;
Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno

Office: [phone]
Mobile: [phone]
Red Hat, Inc.                               http://cz.redhat.com/

[Chris Neves]

I think that if we want to stay "bleeding edge" we are going to have to
move it forward to the DVD size.  For those that need the smaller CD size
we could have a "fall back" image.

I vote for the large DVD image
--
Chris Neves
chris.j.n(a)gmail.com



On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:40 AM, Jaroslav Reznik <jreznik(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  Hi,
>  as you probably know, there's a huge thread on fedora-devel
>  regarding default media size [1] because of MiniDebugInfo and
>  FESCo is looking what are the consequences of breaking current
>  limit.
>
>  I think the Ambassadors are stake holders here as it can influence
>  the ability to distribute Fedora, also we're closest to our users.
>
>  For EMEA there's only one limitation - we should be able fit all
>  four spins in 32/64 bit versions to Multi Desktop Live DVD.
>  Christoph mentioned he's willing to sacrifice Sugar offering.
>
>  What about other regions? Is the CD size the must? Or we can break it?
>  Talking about production costs of medias, users able to use different
>  methods to install Fedora etc., enough size flash drive availability/
>  affordability... Any thoughts?
>
>  Jaroslav
>
>  [1] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-May/166837.html
>  --
>  Jaroslav Řezník <jreznik(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno
>
>  Office: [phone]
>  Mobile: [phone]
>  Red Hat, Inc.                               http://cz.redhat.com/
>
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors

[Zoltan Hoppar]

Hi,

I think there is one possibility. We have seen an transition, where 32
bit fading away into the past, and less and less user takes the 32 bit
version. Right now the Multi Live DVD contains four 64 bit and four 32
bit liveCD system. IF we sacrifice the less needed 32 bit systems,
then we can have DVD size, or miniDVD (1.4+ Gbyte) bootable images.
Also I say that we shouldn't have to forget the new primary arch
members like ARM, and moreover I think we should add our LiveUSB
generator to our livedvd, to have instant USB systems from disc.

Zoltan


2012/5/15 Jaroslav Reznik <jreznik(a)redhat.com&gt;:
>  Hi,
>  as you probably know, there's a huge thread on fedora-devel
>  regarding default media size [1] because of MiniDebugInfo and
>  FESCo is looking what are the consequences of breaking current
>  limit.
>
>  I think the Ambassadors are stake holders here as it can influence
>  the ability to distribute Fedora, also we're closest to our users.
>
>  For EMEA there's only one limitation - we should be able fit all
>  four spins in 32/64 bit versions to Multi Desktop Live DVD.
>  Christoph mentioned he's willing to sacrifice Sugar offering.
>
>  What about other regions? Is the CD size the must? Or we can break it?
>  Talking about production costs of medias, users able to use different
>  methods to install Fedora etc., enough size flash drive availability/
>  affordability... Any thoughts?
>
>  Jaroslav
>
>  [1] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-May/166837.html
>  --
>  Jaroslav Řezník <jreznik(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno
>
>  Office: [phone]
>  Mobile: [phone]
>  Red Hat, Inc.                               http://cz.redhat.com/
>
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors 


-- 
PGP:  06853DF7

[Onyeibo Oku]

-1

please whatever decision prevails.  Keep in mind, that for those in
Africa, internet can guzzle a sizeable percentage of an average worker's
salary.  If someone is going to sponsor my internet, anything DVD sounds
fine, ... else its terribly scary.  LiveCDs are easier to download and
come in handy for beta testing.  Anything in the category of Gigs will
definitely restrict me to release-only media.

Onyeibo


On Tue, 2012-05-15 at 16:18 +0200, Zoltan Hoppar wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  I think there is one possibility. We have seen an transition, where 32
>  bit fading away into the past, and less and less user takes the 32 bit
>  version. Right now the Multi Live DVD contains four 64 bit and four 32
>  bit liveCD system. IF we sacrifice the less needed 32 bit systems,
>  then we can have DVD size, or miniDVD (1.4+ Gbyte) bootable images.
>  Also I say that we shouldn't have to forget the new primary arch
>  members like ARM, and moreover I think we should add our LiveUSB
>  generator to our livedvd, to have instant USB systems from disc.
>  
>  Zoltan
>  
>  
>  2012/5/15 Jaroslav Reznik <jreznik(a)redhat.com&gt;:
>  > Hi,
>  > as you probably know, there's a huge thread on fedora-devel
>  > regarding default media size [1] because of MiniDebugInfo and
>  > FESCo is looking what are the consequences of breaking current
>  > limit.
>  >
>  > I think the Ambassadors are stake holders here as it can influence
>  > the ability to distribute Fedora, also we're closest to our users.
>  >
>  > For EMEA there's only one limitation - we should be able fit all
>  > four spins in 32/64 bit versions to Multi Desktop Live DVD.
>  > Christoph mentioned he's willing to sacrifice Sugar offering.
>  >
>  > What about other regions? Is the CD size the must? Or we can break it?
>  > Talking about production costs of medias, users able to use different
>  > methods to install Fedora etc., enough size flash drive availability/
>  > affordability... Any thoughts?
>  >
>  > Jaroslav
>  >
>  > [1] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-May/166837.html
>  > --
>  > Jaroslav Řezník <jreznik(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  > Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno
>  >
>  > Office: [phone]
>  > Mobile: [phone]
>  > Red Hat, Inc.                               http://cz.redhat.com/
>  >
>  > --
>  > ambassadors mailing list
>  > ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  
>  
>

[Jaroslav Reznik]

----- Original Message -----
>  -1
>  
>  please whatever decision prevails.  Keep in mind, that for those in
>  Africa, internet can guzzle a sizeable percentage of an average
>  worker's
>  salary.  If someone is going to sponsor my internet, anything DVD
>  sounds
>  fine, ... else its terribly scary.  LiveCDs are easier to download
>  and
>  come in handy for beta testing.  Anything in the category of Gigs
>  will
>  definitely restrict me to release-only media. 
The target will be more 1 GB, not bigger (at least for now).

R.

>  Onyeibo
>  
>  
>  On Tue, 2012-05-15 at 16:18 +0200, Zoltan Hoppar wrote:
>  > Hi,
>  > 
>  > I think there is one possibility. We have seen an transition, where
>  > 32
>  > bit fading away into the past, and less and less user takes the 32
>  > bit
>  > version. Right now the Multi Live DVD contains four 64 bit and four
>  > 32
>  > bit liveCD system. IF we sacrifice the less needed 32 bit systems,
>  > then we can have DVD size, or miniDVD (1.4+ Gbyte) bootable images.
>  > Also I say that we shouldn't have to forget the new primary arch
>  > members like ARM, and moreover I think we should add our LiveUSB
>  > generator to our livedvd, to have instant USB systems from disc.
>  > 
>  > Zoltan
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 2012/5/15 Jaroslav Reznik <jreznik(a)redhat.com&gt;:
>  > > Hi,
>  > > as you probably know, there's a huge thread on fedora-devel
>  > > regarding default media size [1] because of MiniDebugInfo and
>  > > FESCo is looking what are the consequences of breaking current
>  > > limit.
>  > >
>  > > I think the Ambassadors are stake holders here as it can
>  > > influence
>  > > the ability to distribute Fedora, also we're closest to our
>  > > users.
>  > >
>  > > For EMEA there's only one limitation - we should be able fit all
>  > > four spins in 32/64 bit versions to Multi Desktop Live DVD.
>  > > Christoph mentioned he's willing to sacrifice Sugar offering.
>  > >
>  > > What about other regions? Is the CD size the must? Or we can
>  > > break it?
>  > > Talking about production costs of medias, users able to use
>  > > different
>  > > methods to install Fedora etc., enough size flash drive
>  > > availability/
>  > > affordability... Any thoughts?
>  > >
>  > > Jaroslav
>  > >
>  > > [1]
>  > > http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-May/166837.html
>  > > --
>  > > Jaroslav Řezník <jreznik(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  > > Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno
>  > >
>  > > Office: [phone]
>  > > Mobile: [phone]
>  > > Red Hat, Inc.                               http://cz.redhat.com/
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > ambassadors mailing list
>  > > ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 
>  
>  
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors

Based on the sincere appeal  made by Oku Onyeibo, I suggest that provision of the
low-memory boot-able life CD should be made so that It would be a little easy/cheap for us
african ambassadors to download.

I also want to know what would be added to the media that would increase the memory space
to DVD size...  
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

-----Original Message-----
From: Onyeibo Oku <twohotis(a)gmail.com&gt;
Sender: ambassadors-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 15:47:35 
To: <zoltanh721(a)fedoraproject.org>; <ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;
Reply-To: ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Default media size

-1

please whatever decision prevails.  Keep in mind, that for those in
Africa, internet can guzzle a sizeable percentage of an average worker's
salary.  If someone is going to sponsor my internet, anything DVD sounds
fine, ... else its terribly scary.  LiveCDs are easier to download and
come in handy for beta testing.  Anything in the category of Gigs will
definitely restrict me to release-only media.

Onyeibo


On Tue, 2012-05-15 at 16:18 +0200, Zoltan Hoppar wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  I think there is one possibility. We have seen an transition, where 32
>  bit fading away into the past, and less and less user takes the 32 bit
>  version. Right now the Multi Live DVD contains four 64 bit and four 32
>  bit liveCD system. IF we sacrifice the less needed 32 bit systems,
>  then we can have DVD size, or miniDVD (1.4+ Gbyte) bootable images.
>  Also I say that we shouldn't have to forget the new primary arch
>  members like ARM, and moreover I think we should add our LiveUSB
>  generator to our livedvd, to have instant USB systems from disc.
>  
>  Zoltan
>  
>  
>  2012/5/15 Jaroslav Reznik <jreznik(a)redhat.com&gt;:
>  > Hi,
>  > as you probably know, there's a huge thread on fedora-devel
>  > regarding default media size [1] because of MiniDebugInfo and
>  > FESCo is looking what are the consequences of breaking current
>  > limit.
>  >
>  > I think the Ambassadors are stake holders here as it can influence
>  > the ability to distribute Fedora, also we're closest to our users.
>  >
>  > For EMEA there's only one limitation - we should be able fit all
>  > four spins in 32/64 bit versions to Multi Desktop Live DVD.
>  > Christoph mentioned he's willing to sacrifice Sugar offering.
>  >
>  > What about other regions? Is the CD size the must? Or we can break it?
>  > Talking about production costs of medias, users able to use different
>  > methods to install Fedora etc., enough size flash drive availability/
>  > affordability... Any thoughts?
>  >
>  > Jaroslav
>  >
>  > [1] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-May/166837.html
>  > --
>  > Jaroslav Řezník <jreznik(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  > Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno
>  >
>  > Office: [phone]
>  > Mobile: [phone]
>  > Red Hat, Inc.                               http://cz.redhat.com/
>  >
>  > --
>  > ambassadors mailing list
>  > ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  
>  
>   

--
ambassadors mailing list
ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors

[David Ramsey]

Hello Everyone,

Good discussion and I concur with Oku. :)

May a consideration of the end users from India as well as other countries where
infrastructure & bandwidth may not be advantageous be considered, too. :)

Sending positive Fedora 16 & 17 energy to your computers now.  :)

Thank You
Sincerely,
- David -

>  To: ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org;
> zoltanh721(a)fedoraproject.org
>  From: frankpeter2010(a)yahoo.com
>  Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 15:24:40 +0000
>  Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Default media size
>  
>  Based on the sincere appeal  made by Oku Onyeibo, I suggest that provision of the
> low-memory boot-able life CD should be made so that It would be a little easy/cheap for us
> african ambassadors to download.
>  
>  I also want to know what would be added to the media that would increase the memory space
> to DVD size...  
>  Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
>  
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Onyeibo Oku <twohotis(a)gmail.com&gt;
>  Sender: ambassadors-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 15:47:35 
>  To: <zoltanh721(a)fedoraproject.org>; <ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;
>  Reply-To: ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Default media size
>  
>  -1
>  
>  please whatever decision prevails.  Keep in mind, that for those in
>  Africa, internet can guzzle a sizeable percentage of an average worker's
>  salary.  If someone is going to sponsor my internet, anything DVD sounds
>  fine, ... else its terribly scary.  LiveCDs are easier to download and
>  come in handy for beta testing.  Anything in the category of Gigs will
>  definitely restrict me to release-only media.
>  
>  Onyeibo
>  
>  
>  On Tue, 2012-05-15 at 16:18 +0200, Zoltan Hoppar wrote:
>  > Hi,
>  > 
>  > I think there is one possibility. We have seen an transition, where 32
>  > bit fading away into the past, and less and less user takes the 32 bit
>  > version. Right now the Multi Live DVD contains four 64 bit and four 32
>  > bit liveCD system. IF we sacrifice the less needed 32 bit systems,
>  > then we can have DVD size, or miniDVD (1.4+ Gbyte) bootable images.
>  > Also I say that we shouldn't have to forget the new primary arch
>  > members like ARM, and moreover I think we should add our LiveUSB
>  > generator to our livedvd, to have instant USB systems from disc.
>  > 
>  > Zoltan
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 2012/5/15 Jaroslav Reznik <jreznik(a)redhat.com&gt;:
>  > > Hi,
>  > > as you probably know, there's a huge thread on fedora-devel
>  > > regarding default media size [1] because of MiniDebugInfo and
>  > > FESCo is looking what are the consequences of breaking current
>  > > limit.
>  > >
>  > > I think the Ambassadors are stake holders here as it can influence
>  > > the ability to distribute Fedora, also we're closest to our users.
>  > >
>  > > For EMEA there's only one limitation - we should be able fit all
>  > > four spins in 32/64 bit versions to Multi Desktop Live DVD.
>  > > Christoph mentioned he's willing to sacrifice Sugar offering.
>  > >
>  > > What about other regions? Is the CD size the must? Or we can break it?
>  > > Talking about production costs of medias, users able to use different
>  > > methods to install Fedora etc., enough size flash drive availability/
>  > > affordability... Any thoughts?
>  > >
>  > > Jaroslav
>  > >
>  > > [1] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-May/166837.html
>  > > --
>  > > Jaroslav Řezník <jreznik(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  > > Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno
>  > >
>  > > Office: [phone]
>  > > Mobile: [phone]
>  > > Red Hat, Inc.                               http://cz.redhat.com/
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > ambassadors mailing list
>  > > ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 
>  
>  
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors

[Arif Tri Waluyo]

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Jaroslav Reznik <jreznik(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  Hi,
>  as you probably know, there's a huge thread on fedora-devel
>  regarding default media size [1] because of MiniDebugInfo and
>  FESCo is looking what are the consequences of breaking current
>  limit.
>
>  I think the Ambassadors are stake holders here as it can influence
>  the ability to distribute Fedora, also we're closest to our users.
>
>  For EMEA there's only one limitation - we should be able fit all
>  four spins in 32/64 bit versions to Multi Desktop Live DVD.
>  Christoph mentioned he's willing to sacrifice Sugar offering.
>
>  What about other regions? Is the CD size the must? Or we can break it?
>  Talking about production costs of medias, users able to use different
>  methods to install Fedora etc., enough size flash drive availability/
>  affordability... Any thoughts? 
I personally do not care how big the size, as long as it is
a live media. Users would prefer a distro that can be tested directly on
the device prior to installation and after installation of the
operating system, all the main program (music player, video player, office
suite, graphic suite etc.) is installed. But if so, we must ensure that
users can get it easily and cheap. By the way, spread Fedorato the rental
store CD / DVD and improve the program Freemedia. Please see
the debian live media, the size about 1.1 GB. But we must still provide an
option for anyone who wants an operating system that is no
larger than 700MB. Maybe we could call it "minimal media".

>  
Jaroslav
>  
> [1]
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-May/166837.html
> --
> Jaroslav Řezník <jreznik(a)redhat.com
>  
>
Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno
>  
> Office: [phone]
> Mobile: [phone]
> Red Hat, Inc.                               http://cz.redhat.com/
>  
> --
> ambassadors mailing list
> ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors