Fedora NPO

[Gerold]

Hello Ambassador World,

as you might have read, Jeroen and me are trying to found a
Non-profit-Organisation (aka NPO) for Europe and we want to found this
FEDORA EMEA entity @ FOSDEM ...

In the past few days I have to answer a lot of questions because it seems
that we haven´t done our homework very well to announce, explain and
answer the questions of everybody of you ...

So what shall we do right now? Shall we postpone the founding and use the
FOSDEM as a Q&A event from our side? Should we found this NPO?

BTW: Let me explain a few things about thinking about that NPO:
We (Jeroen and me and a lot of other Ambassador attending the FAD EMEA
2007) thought we found this NPO in GERMANY (depends on German Law) BECAUSE
I personaly founded such a NPO,  "my" local LinuxUser Group Loerrach. This
NPO -in which I hold the chair at the moment- is acknoledged by German law
to spend tax reductable donation receipts (for companys, members,
everyone) ...
Back to the basics (of that German law of founding) ...
First you need to be seven legal persons who are willing to found such a NPO.
Second, you need to meet face-to-face.
Third, ONLY people from THIS foundational meeting are allowed to
- accept and vote for the statutes
- elect the BOARD of the NPO who much attend that meeting in person
FOURTH, In the statutes who are in German, you give the frame of your
entity and its Goals, Amount of Board, membership fee and so on.
That´s I hope are all dependencies who must be fullfilled to 100% ...

Any comments? Ideas? Doubts?

Let me/us know!


Gerold

[Nayyar Ahmad]

Hi Gerold,

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Gerold <gerold(a)lugd.org&gt; wrote:

>  Hello Ambassador World, 


>  as you might have read, Jeroen and me are trying to found a
>  Non-profit-Organisation (aka NPO) for Europe and we want to found this 

I wounder this NPO will cover only Europe or EMEA?

>  FEDORA EMEA entity @ FOSDEM ...
>
>  In the past few days I have to answer a lot of questions because it seems
>  that we haven´t done our homework very well to announce, explain and
>  answer the questions of everybody of you ...
>
>  So what shall we do right now? Shall we postpone the founding and use the
>  FOSDEM as a Q&A event from our side? Should we found this NPO?
>
>  BTW: Let me explain a few things about thinking about that NPO:
>  We (Jeroen and me and a lot of other Ambassador attending the FAD EMEA
>  2007) thought we found this NPO in GERMANY (depends on German Law) BECAUSE
>  I personaly founded such a NPO,  "my" local LinuxUser Group Loerrach. This
>  NPO -in which I hold the chair at the moment- is acknoledged by German law
>  to spend tax reductable donation receipts (for companys, members,
>  everyone) ...
>  Back to the basics (of that German law of founding) ...
>  First you need to be seven legal persons who are willing to found such a
>  NPO. 

this legal means Germany National?

>  Second, you need to meet face-to-face. 

then they need to be from same part of the world.. btw, how often they need
to see each other?

>  Third, ONLY people from THIS foundational meeting are allowed to
>  - accept and vote for the statutes
>  - elect the BOARD of the NPO who much attend that meeting in person 
no doubt..!

>  FOURTH, In the statutes who are in German, you give the frame of your
>  entity and its Goals, Amount of Board, membership fee and so on.
>  That´s I hope are all dependencies who must be fullfilled to 100% ... 

is there any restriction on taking membership, specially for outside German
territory people?

>  Any comments? Ideas? Doubts?
>
>  Let me/us know! 

I hope we would be able to form NPO soon, it is for sure a big task & will
become a milestone for Fedora Project EMEA.

Thanks

>  Gerold
>
>  --
>  Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
>  Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>  


-- 
Nayyar Ahmad
RHCE (ID:804006858622745)
Skype: nayyares
Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com

[Gerold]

> > as you might have read, Jeroen and me are trying to found a
> > Non-profit-Organisation (aka NPO) for Europe and we want to found this
>
>  I wounder this NPO will cover only Europe or EMEA? 
^^
Sorry for the type-mismatch ...
WE want to cover as large as we can and if we can cover the whole world,
we`ll do so!
You´re completly right .... In the first thought and the main goal is to
cover EMEA; not only Europe. EMEA means Europe, Middle East and Africa ...

<snip>...
> > Back to the basics (of that German law of founding) ...
> > First you need to be seven legal persons who are willing to found such a
> > NPO. 
</snip>
>  this legal means Germany National? 
^^
NO, and also verified(!) Depends on no nationality and also not the place
where you found. Only the NPO must be listed in Germany at a court which
is responsible for the NPO ...

> > - elect the BOARD of the NPO who much attend that meeting in
> person
>
>  no doubt..! 
^^
:-) Thank you!

> > That´s I hope are all dependencies who must be fullfilled to 100%
> ...
>
>
>  is there any restriction on taking membership, specially for outside
>  German
>  territory people? 
^^
NO! see above!

>  I hope we would be able to form NPO soon, it is for sure a big task
> & will
>  become a milestone for Fedora Project EMEA.
>  
^^
Also imho too :-)

Regards

Gerold

[Andreas Rau]

Hi Gerold, Hi Ambassadors,

- Shall we postpone the founding and use the FOSDEM as a Q&A event from
our side? 

+1 I think it is important that everyone knows about this.
Ambassadors need answers and we need the acceptance - 

- Should we found this NPO?

+1 of course, we will need an alternative way for finance in the future

Kind regards,
Andi Rau





Am Donnerstag, den 14.02.2008, 12:54 +0100 schrieb Gerold:
>  Hello Ambassador World,
>  
>  as you might have read, Jeroen and me are trying to found a
>  Non-profit-Organisation (aka NPO) for Europe and we want to found this
>  FEDORA EMEA entity @ FOSDEM ...
>  
>  In the past few days I have to answer a lot of questions because it seems
>  that we haven´t done our homework very well to announce, explain and
>  answer the questions of everybody of you ...
>  
>  So what shall we do right now? Shall we postpone the founding and use the
>  FOSDEM as a Q&A event from our side? Should we found this NPO?
>  
>  BTW: Let me explain a few things about thinking about that NPO:
>  We (Jeroen and me and a lot of other Ambassador attending the FAD EMEA
>  2007) thought we found this NPO in GERMANY (depends on German Law) BECAUSE
>  I personaly founded such a NPO,  "my" local LinuxUser Group Loerrach. This
>  NPO -in which I hold the chair at the moment- is acknoledged by German law
>  to spend tax reductable donation receipts (for companys, members,
>  everyone) ...
>  Back to the basics (of that German law of founding) ...
>  First you need to be seven legal persons who are willing to found such a NPO.
>  Second, you need to meet face-to-face.
>  Third, ONLY people from THIS foundational meeting are allowed to
>  - accept and vote for the statutes
>  - elect the BOARD of the NPO who much attend that meeting in person
>  FOURTH, In the statutes who are in German, you give the frame of your
>  entity and its Goals, Amount of Board, membership fee and so on.
>  That´s I hope are all dependencies who must be fullfilled to 100% ...
>  
>  Any comments? Ideas? Doubts?
>  
>  Let me/us know!
>  
>  
>  Gerold
>  
>  --
>  Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
>  Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list

[Robert Scheck]

Folks,

we NEED to found the NPO as soon as possible, I thought we were clear about
this? What's the problem? Just a few possible people being to lazy to drive
or fly to FOSDEM (I'm meaning the European ones hereby).

IMHO we should found the NPO on FOSDEM - no further delay, please. Because
if we're delaying, I'm seeing us without NPO at LinuxTag and again without
the possibility to collect money from companies in a better way as now...


Greetings,
  Robert

[Joerg Simon]

Am Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2008 23:22:43 schrieb Robert Scheck:
>  I'm seeing us without NPO at LinuxTag and again without
>  the possibility to collect money from companies in a better way as now... 
One Example - Fedora Posters on Truckplane EUR 350 worth - Fedoraproject will 
get it for free - and it would be much better if we could give the people who 
do this work a legal quittance of there donation. 
It´s not only the money - till now there is no legal "EMEA wide announced" 
central Contactpoint for the Fedoraproject in EMEA for the Media and Press - 
no doubt - they will go to the local Redhat Dealer to contact Fedora - and it 
is happen in Germany, they didn´t know Max or about Ambassadors or other 
Structures and move it from the desk.
We need this central public relation to have ... is explained enough in the 
past :P you know what i mean!

CU
Joerg

-- 
Jörg Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

[Joerg Simon]

>  Am Donnerstag, den 14.02.2008, 12:54 +0100 schrieb Gerold:
>  >
>  > So what shall we do right now? Shall we postpone the founding  
I understood this as retoric - but after People really take this serious.
here my -1 
We have to start at Fosdem - there is no time to hesitate - Ambassadors move!

CU Jörg




-- 
Jörg Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

[Tom Callaway]

On Thu, 2008-02-14 at 23:32 +0100, JoergSimon wrote:
>  > Am Donnerstag, den 14.02.2008, 12:54 +0100 schrieb Gerold:
>  > >
>  > > So what shall we do right now? Shall we postpone the founding 
>  
>  I understood this as retoric - but after People really take this serious.
>  here my -1 
>  We have to start at Fosdem - there is no time to hesitate - Ambassadors move! 
I really hate to be a wet blanket on this, but I would really like to
clear this with:

A) The Fedora Board
B) Red Hat Legal

before it gets any farther. Have either of these things been done?

~spot

[Gerold]

Hi,

... We have to start at Fosdem - there is no time to hesitate - Ambassadors
> > move! ...
>
>  I really hate to be a wet blanket on this, but I would really like to
>  clear this with:
>
>  A) The Fedora Board
>  B) Red Hat Legal
>
>  before it gets any farther. Have either of these things been done? 
^^
A) No, why?
B) More than once from different persons since last August, without any
result of "helping hands" or supporting a local group or whatever you want
to hear. Asking Red Hat legal is imho asking a "black whole", because you
will be told you'll get an answer or a response in a suitable time. Maybe
you, but not me or the guys who asked (from which I know) ...


... this NPO we like to found depends _NOT_ on Red Hat. And there is also
NO *must* to be member of this NPO for nobody ...
If you want to join the NPO, do so; if not, you'll be also welcome :-)

More on the weekend @ Bruxelles

regards

gerold

[Nayyar Ahmad]

On Feb 18, 2008 9:43 AM, Gerold <gerold(a)lugd.org&gt; wrote:

>  Hi,
>
>  ... We have to start at Fosdem - there is no time to hesitate -
>  Ambassadors
>  >> move! ...
>  >
>  > I really hate to be a wet blanket on this, but I would really like to
>  > clear this with:
>  >
>  > A) The Fedora Board
>  > B) Red Hat Legal
>  >
>  > before it gets any farther. Have either of these things been done?
>  ^^
>  A) No, why?
>  B) More than once from different persons since last August, without any
>  result of "helping hands" or supporting a local group or whatever you want
>  to hear. Asking Red Hat legal is imho asking a "black whole", because you
>  will be told you'll get an answer or a response in a suitable time. Maybe
>  you, but not me or the guys who asked (from which I know) ... 

+1 (First thing First) we found NPO "with no further more delay" & it will
get mature with the time...

>  ... this NPO we like to found depends _NOT_ on Red Hat. And there is also
>  NO *must* to be member of this NPO for nobody ...
>  If you want to join the NPO, do so; if not, you'll be also welcome :-)
>
>  More on the weekend @ Bruxelles
>
>  regards
>
>  gerold
>
>  --
>  Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
>  Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>  


-- 
Nayyar Ahmad
RHCE (ID:804006858622745)
Skype: nayyares
Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com

[Tom Callaway]

On Mon, 2008-02-18 at 08:43 +0100, Gerold wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  ... We have to start at Fosdem - there is no time to hesitate - Ambassadors
>  >> move! ...
>  >
>  > I really hate to be a wet blanket on this, but I would really like to
>  > clear this with:
>  >
>  > A) The Fedora Board
>  > B) Red Hat Legal
>  >
>  > before it gets any farther. Have either of these things been done?
>  ^^
>  A) No, why?
>  B) More than once from different persons since last August, without any
>  result of "helping hands" or supporting a local group or whatever you want
>  to hear. Asking Red Hat legal is imho asking a "black whole", because you
>  will be told you'll get an answer or a response in a suitable time. Maybe
>  you, but not me or the guys who asked (from which I know) ...
>  
>  
>  ... this NPO we like to found depends _NOT_ on Red Hat. And there is also
>  NO *must* to be member of this NPO for nobody ...
>  If you want to join the NPO, do so; if not, you'll be also welcome :-) 
So, here's why it matters:

Are you using the Fedora trademark? If yes, then, you should get the
permission from the trademark holder to do so for an NPO. The trademark
holder is Red Hat. The body which gives permission for the Fedora
trademark usage is the Fedora Board.

Now, I would be happy to talk to Red Hat Legal on your behalf and try to
clear this as quickly as possible, but I want to make sure that you guys
have all your possible stumbling blocks out of the way so that this
doesn't get yanked back immediately.

If you're not using the Fedora trademark in any way, then you shouldn't
need this, and you can ignore me.

~spot

[Jeroen van Meeuwen]

Tom "spot" Callaway wrote:
>  Are you using the Fedora trademark? If yes, then, you should get the
>  permission from the trademark holder to do so for an NPO. The trademark
>  holder is Red Hat. The body which gives permission for the Fedora
>  trademark usage is the Fedora Board.
>  
>  Now, I would be happy to talk to Red Hat Legal on your behalf and try to
>  clear this as quickly as possible, but I want to make sure that you guys
>  have all your possible stumbling blocks out of the way so that this
>  doesn't get yanked back immediately.
>  
>  If you're not using the Fedora trademark in any way, then you shouldn't
>  need this, and you can ignore me.
>   
I'm sure we all know why it matters; We've had an "OK, go ahead" from 
the Fedora Project, but we haven't got any response from Red Hat Legal 
to the inquiries we made.

Let's just say that it'd be hard for them to argue we cannot use the 
trademark when on the other hand when we asked it didn't seem to have 
all that much priority or importance. And that is besides the trademark 
being used by those who build the brand to begin with. Anyway, as 
legally and practically are two completely different things still, we'd 
appreciate if you'd attempt to get them to answer whether or not we can 
expect trouble.

Then there's the question of whether we use the trademark or not. I'm 
thinking using just "Fedora" in the name is already considered "using 
the trademark" isn't it?

Kind regards,

Jeroen van Meeuwen
-kanarip

[Max Spevack]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:

>  Let's just say that it'd be hard for them to argue we cannot
> use the 
>  trademark when on the other hand when we asked it didn't seem to have 
>  all that much priority or importance. And that is besides the 
>  trademark being used by those who build the brand to begin with. 
>  Anyway, as legally and practically are two completely different things 
>  still, we'd appreciate if you'd attempt to get them to answer whether 
>  or not we can expect trouble.
>
>  Then there's the question of whether we use the trademark or not. I'm 
>  thinking using just "Fedora" in the name is already considered "using 
>  the trademark" isn't it? 
I just sent an email to the Fedora Board list, copying both Jeroen and 
Gerold, that explains the whole thing, and asks the Board to give an 
official "ok" about this whole thing.

In my opinion, this thread can pause for now.  The Fedora Board meets 
tomorrow.

--Max