XFCE as third official desktop?

[Heiko Adams]

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Hi,
some of my friends and colleges are currently using xubuntu but they
want to move to fedora and so they asked me why Fedora only
provides GNOME and KDE but not XFCE as desktops during the installation.
I told them that XFCE can be installed from fedora-extras repository
after installation.
So now they've moved to Fedora but they are a little bit unhappy
because they had to install GNOME/KDE -> install XFCE from
fedora-extras -> remove GNOME/KDE to get a XFCE Fedora and in their
eyes that's circuitous.
So they asked for asking if there would be a chance to move XFCE to
Fedora Core in Fedora Core 7 or later.

Regards,

Heiko
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[Fedora-marketing-list] XFCE as third official desktop?

[Rahul Sundaram]

Heiko Adams wrote:
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>  
>  Hi,
>  some of my friends and colleges are currently using xubuntu but they
>  want to move to fedora and so they asked me why Fedora only
>  provides GNOME and KDE but not XFCE as desktops during the installation.
>  I told them that XFCE can be installed from fedora-extras repository
>  after installation.
>  So now they've moved to Fedora but they are a little bit unhappy
>  because they had to install GNOME/KDE -> install XFCE from
>  fedora-extras -> remove GNOME/KDE to get a XFCE Fedora and in their
>  eyes that's circuitous.
>  So they asked for asking if there would be a chance to move XFCE to
>  Fedora Core in Fedora Core 7 or later. 
GNOME and KDE are not anymore official in Fedora than XFCE is. Fedora 
Core 6 installer includes the ability to install applications from 
Fedora Extras repository. So the end users would be able to do a network 
based installation and select XFCE as default. This has been made 
relatively easy.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tours/FedoraCore6/005_Install_Add_Repository

We are also discussing some changes in the release strategy including 
availability of extras packages in media. So essentially eliminating any 
practical differences between these repositories at the end user level 
potentially as close as the next release. I guess that should satisfy 
your friends and fans of other alternative window managers included in 
Fedora Extras.

Rahul

[Fedora-marketing-list] XFCE as third official desktop?

[Rahul Sundaram]

Heiko Adams wrote:
>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  Hash: SHA1
>
>  Hi,
>  some of my friends and colleges are currently using xubuntu but they
>  want to move to fedora and so they asked me why Fedora only
>  provides GNOME and KDE but not XFCE as desktops during the installation.
>  I told them that XFCE can be installed from fedora-extras repository
>  after installation.
>  So now they've moved to Fedora but they are a little bit unhappy
>  because they had to install GNOME/KDE -> install XFCE from
>  fedora-extras -> remove GNOME/KDE to get a XFCE Fedora and in their
>  eyes that's circuitous.
>  So they asked for asking if there would be a chance to move XFCE to
>  Fedora Core in Fedora Core 7 or later. 
GNOME and KDE are not anymore official in Fedora than XFCE is. Fedora 
Core 6 installer includes the ability to install applications from 
Fedora Extras repository. So the end users would be able to do a network 
based installation and select XFCE as default. This has been made 
relatively easy.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tours/FedoraCore6/005_Install_Add_Repository

We are also discussing some changes in the release strategy including 
availability of extras packages in media. So essentially eliminating any 
practical differences between these repositories at the end user level 
potentially as close as the next release. I guess that should satisfy 
your friends and fans of other alternative window managers included in 
Fedora Extras.

Rahul

[Fedora-marketing-list] XFCE as third official desktop?

[Heiko Adams]

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Am Sun, 08 Oct 2006 20:11:05 +0530
schrieb Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:

>  GNOME and KDE are not anymore official in Fedora than XFCE is. Fedora
>
>  Core 6 installer includes the ability to install applications from 
>  Fedora Extras repository. So the end users would be able to do a
>  network based installation and select XFCE as default. This has been
>  made relatively easy.
>   
Okay, but "normal" users could get the impress that GNOME and KDE are
more "official" than XFCE. But anyway thanks for the correction.
So as I wrote before my friends have already moved to fedora but they
were a little bit surprised that XFCE wasn't available at Fedora Core 5
installer. So at the moment they've got a fedora core 5 system with
XFCE and (a never used) GNOME. They selected GNOME because it's more
like XFCE then KDE and it's never wrong to have a fallback option ;-)

>  We are also discussing some changes in the release strategy including
>
>  availability of extras packages in media. So essentially eliminating
>  any practical differences between these repositories at the end user
>  level potentially as close as the next release. I guess that should
>  satisfy your friends and fans of other alternative window managers
>  included in Fedora Extras.
>   
I think that many people would be happy about that.

Regards

Heiko
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[Fedora-marketing-list] Making installation easy (XFCE as third official desktop?)

[cyber-luk imCyber]

It would be good if user would be able to select additional packages
from other repositories (including Fedora Extras) during the
installation.
Choosing between GNOME,KDE,XFCE,Enlightenment,Project Looking Glass,etc.
would be great. It would be also good if user could
switch between Compiz(XGL,AIGLX).

There are thousands packages to choose from - classic menu with software
categories such as Development,Office,Games would not be very user
friendly.

There should be default templates for jobs that will be performed by
different users. 

For example: 
Web Developer - this template would install
httpd(Apache),database(MySQL),WYSIWYG(nVU) editor,some sort of web
language/framework support(Ruby On
Rails,phpEclipse,NetBeans,Eclipse/Callisto) as well as some software
that is used for creating and editing web graphics - Gimp is not
suitable for webdesign and web graphics, it's good if you need to edit
your photos or something like that, but if you need to make a web
design(vector objects,rounded corners,shadows,glow and other bitmap
effects,image slicing,bevels,gradients,etc.), you have to use something
like Macromedia Fireworks which is not available for Linux - the only
opensource alternative I've found is Xara Xtreme.

There should be also templates for Office/Corporate,
Desktop/Server/Mobile developers, 2D/3D artists, music producers,
gamers, home video users. And you should be able to combine those
templates, so if you develope mobile games and produce music for
example, you could choose Mobile Developer and Music Producer template.

Next, there should be some kind of checkboxes that will allow you to
install MP3,Flash,Sun Java,XVID/DIVX support and 3D accelerated
NVIDIA/ATI drivers directly. During the installation or after the
first-boot, but it should be automatic and simple. Yes, if you open a
terminal and execute 'yum install xmms-mp3', you'll get mp3 support, but
only for XMMS, not for XINE/GSTREAMER. You have to type tens/hundreds of
commands or manually download non-rpm installers if you want to do
something more than read e-mails,browse the web and chat in Linux.

The basic settings and installation took me one week before I got FC5
working and ready for everyday use - that's horrible. I had to search
Google, read Fedora forums and learn about new bugs such as HWCursor
issue on all NVIDIA cards(with official and unofficial drivers).

If I didn't know Linux before and was switching from Windows for the
first time, I would format my HDD after few 'yum install ...' commands
and switch back to Windows XP.
I'm a developer, I write tens or hundreds of lines everyday and I get
mad when I have to type anything in console or anywhere else in order to
communicate with my operating system. Desktop OS should be intuitive -
when you can't do something through simple button,menu,widget or window
and have to type manually different commands, ordinary PC users gets
stucked.
Imagine that you bought an iPOD or Sony PSP and had to type some
commands with different parameters in order to play music, start a game
or browse a network - that's what you have to do on PC if you use Fedora
Core. If you try Linspire for example, everything works like a charm.
Linspire could be an inspiration for Fedora devs/ui makers.

Terminals and console services are good if you are administrating remote
server(thin client without GUI) and can't use VNC. Or if you are
developing a software and need to use some shell commands or libraries -
you can then use the shell as a communication protocol between different
applications that were written in different languages.

If I were installing a Fedora Core server, I wouldn't need GNOME or
anything else, but if I'm installing a desktop OS intended for everyday
home/office use, I need all those user-friendly features such as
windows.

Microsoft doesn't have very secure and stable operating system, but they
have made everything user-friendly. Why my Fedora Core Linux can't be
user-friendly too? There are other distributions which are already
user-friendly.


On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 17:24 +0200, Heiko Adams wrote:

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>  
>  Am Sun, 08 Oct 2006 20:11:05 +0530
>  schrieb Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  
>  > GNOME and KDE are not anymore official in Fedora than XFCE is. Fedora 
>  > Core 6 installer includes the ability to install applications from 
>  > Fedora Extras repository. So the end users would be able to do a
>  > network based installation and select XFCE as default. This has been
>  > made relatively easy.
>  > 
>  Okay, but "normal" users could get the impress that GNOME and KDE are
>  more "official" than XFCE. But anyway thanks for the correction.
>  So as I wrote before my friends have already moved to fedora but they
>  were a little bit surprised that XFCE wasn't available at Fedora Core 5
>  installer. So at the moment they've got a fedora core 5 system with
>  XFCE and (a never used) GNOME. They selected GNOME because it's more
>  like XFCE then KDE and it's never wrong to have a fallback option ;-)
>  
>  > We are also discussing some changes in the release strategy including 
>  > availability of extras packages in media. So essentially eliminating
>  > any practical differences between these repositories at the end user
>  > level potentially as close as the next release. I guess that should
>  > satisfy your friends and fans of other alternative window managers
>  > included in Fedora Extras.
>  > 
>  I think that many people would be happy about that.
>  
>  Regards
>  
>  Heiko
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>  
>  --
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>  Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list 
--
Regards,
Luke Satin

[Fedora-marketing-list] Making installation easy (XFCE as third official desktop?)

[Rahul Sundaram]

Luke Satin wrote:
>  It would be good if user would be able to select additional packages
>
>  from other repositories (including Fedora Extras) during the installation.
>  Choosing between GNOME,KDE,XFCE,Enlightenment,Project Looking Glass,etc. 
>  would be great.  
Yes. This is exactly what we have done in Fedora Core 6 installer.

It would be also good if user could
>  switch between Compiz(XGL,AIGLX). 
Compiz is available in Fedora Core 6 in 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/compiz.


>  There are thousands packages to choose from - classic menu with
> software 
>  categories such as Development,Office,Games would not be very user friendly. 
Refer to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/CompsXml. Participate in 
fedora-extras list if you have any ideas to improve the organization of 
packages.

  you have to use something
>  like Macromedia Fireworks which is not available for Linux - the only
>
>  opensource alternative I've found is Xara Xtreme. 
Thats good news then. Xara is available in Fedora Extras.
http://fedoraproject.org/extras/5/i386/repodata/repoview/X.group.html

>  Next, there should be some kind of checkboxes that will allow you to
>
>  install MP3,Flash,Sun Java,XVID/DIVX support and 3D accelerated 
>  NVIDIA/ATI drivers directly. During the installation or after the 
>  first-boot, but it should be automatic and simple. Yes, if you open a 
>  terminal and execute 'yum install xmms-mp3', you'll get mp3 support, but 
>  only for XMMS, not for XINE/GSTREAMER. You have to type tens/hundreds of 
>  commands or manually download non-rpm installers if you want to do 
>  something more than read e-mails,browse the web and chat in Linux. 
See my earlier replies on this on my take on this.

>  Microsoft doesn't have very secure and stable operating system,
> but they 
>  have made everything user-friendly. Why my Fedora Core Linux can't be 
>  user-friendly too? There are other distributions which are already 
>  user-friendly. 
Sure. As a developer, the best thing you can do to change this is to 
contribute your skills to improving this.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Usability

Rahul

[Fedora-marketing-list] Making installation easy (XFCE as third official desktop?)

[Rex Dieter]

Luke Satin wrote:
>  Next, there should be some kind of checkboxes that will allow you to
>
>  install MP3,Flash,Sun Java,XVID/DIVX support and 3D accelerated 
>  NVIDIA/ATI drivers directly. During the installation or after the 
>  first-boot, but it should be automatic and simple.  
No can (or will) do.

Not free software, and in many cases, not distributable.  Further, even 
linking to some patent-infringing bits (mp3, xvid, etc)... is not legal 
(e.g. contributory infringement).

About the best we can do, is already on
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia/

-- Rex