FUDCon APAC bids

[Igor Pires Soares]

Hi all,

as Gerard posted here earlier today, FAmSCo would like to hear opinions
and suggestions related to the two FUDCon bids for FUDCon APAC.

Here are the links:
India bid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:India_2011
China bid: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2011

Feel free to share your ideas, concerns and questions about both bids.

FAmSCo members will cast a vote on this until next Tuesday and then make
a recommendation for the next FUDCon APAC.

Thanks,  
-- 
Igor Pires Soares
Fedora Ambassador (Brazil) - Member of FAmSCo
Fedora I18N/L10N QA
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Igor

[Buddhike Kurera]

Hi FAms,

First of all it is nice to see two competitive bids from APAC and that shows
the spirit of FAms APAC has.
No argument both places are suburb in terms of every aspect, but
unfortunately we have to take one.

However two events will be on November 2011 and that means we have only
around 4 months to make this happen.
Considerably less days to get organized. Therefore we have to take this fact
into consideration, the preparation both bids have undergo at the moment
should be taken into consideration, I think.

China Fedora community is doing well with the bid. The location selected is
more attractive and a travel destination. Contributors will be happy to
enjoy the Chinese culture with parallel to the FUDcon. This event can be
used to get the attention of the Chinese community which is
growing towards the fedora project.

By referring two wiki pages for bids we can see India has almost done most
of planning stuffs rather than China bid. Further at the moment India bid
page seems to be a very popular place as there is more than
70 registered people for the event. The number of the facilitators is also
higher. The cost of the place and cost of travelling seems to be lesser (not
able to find a budget for China bid). Their calculated budget also with in
the range that is proposed for the APAC FUDcon. Further India is a rich
place of Fedora contributors, and hope this event will trigger them and can
be invested to get more contribution towards the project. The air
ticket fees for the location from  interested contributor locations should
be considered as well.

Above are some insights that can be used when it is needed to select one
among the two.

Thanks for the opportunity FAmSCo and waiting see the selected bid soon.

Hi all,
>  as Gerard posted here earlier today, FAmSCo would like to hear opinions
>  and suggestions related to the two FUDCon bids for FUDCon APAC.
>
>  Here are the links:
>  India bid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:India_2011
>  China bid: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2011
>
>  Feel free to share your ideas, concerns and questions about both bids.
>
>  FAmSCo members will cast a vote on this until next Tuesday and then make
>  a recommendation for the next FUDCon APAC.
>
>  Thanks,
>  --
>  Igor Pires Soares
>  Fedora Ambassador (Brazil) - Member of FAmSCo
>  Fedora I18N/L10N QA
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Igor
>
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  


-- 
Regards,

*Buddhike Chandradeepa Kurera*
The Editor in Chief - FOSS User Magazine
Fedora Ambassador - Sri Lanka

*Email*: bckurera(a)fossuser.lk | *Phone*: ([phone] | *Skype*:
buddhikakurera | *Fax*: ([phone]

[Gerard Braad]

2011/6/26 Buddhika Kurera <bckurera(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  By referring two wiki pages for bids we can see India has almost done
> most
>  of planning stuffs rather than China bid. Further at the moment India bid
>  page seems to be a very popular place as there is more than
>  70 registered people for the event. 
My take on it: the bidding process does not entail the
(pre)registration process or complete budget calculation (however,
nice to have). Also take note the original India bid page does not
follow the bidding structure as defined on
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_process and might cause/have
caused some confusion. All negotiations for China have been done in
just a week, which shows the importance of 关系网 (business relationship,
network), but also how effective we can get this done ;-)

Gerard

-- 
Gerard Braad -- 吉拉德
   Regional Mentor for APAC/China, Member of FAmSCo
   http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad

[Tiansworld]

On 06/26/2011 11:42 AM, Gerard Braad wrote:
>  2011/6/26 Buddhika Kurera<bckurera(a)fedoraproject.org>:
> > By referring two wiki pages for bids we can see India has almost done most
> > of planning stuffs rather than China bid. Further at the moment India bid
> > page seems to be a very popular place as there is more than
> > 70 registered people for the event.
>   
First I hope it could be held in China, then I will have the opportunity
to attend.
For the wiki pages, I don't think China's page fall behind :)
They are just in a different way.

-- 
Regards,

Tiansworld
Fedora Project/Ambassador/Contributor

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 06/26/2011 09:12 AM, Gerard Braad wrote:
>  My take on it: the bidding process does not entail the
>  (pre)registration process or complete budget calculation (however,
>  nice to have). Also take note the original India bid page does not
>  follow the bidding structure as defined on
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_process and might cause/have
>  caused some confusion 
I am not sure what bidding structure you are referring to. In
any case,
I cannot treat that page as authoritative since it has a rather
prominent warning on top advising against it.

Rahul

[María Leandro]

Hello all.

Both bids are really great, and taking Kital words this decition cannot be
done "on a subjective/feeling bases".

One of the most important points to take a decition on LATAM last FUDcon
was, more than a bid itself (since all where impressive) take a decition
based on local community. FUDcon, FAD and other events should be a base to
increase and strengthen local communities. In this case, I would suggest...
yes, go ahead with a +1 vote, but consider which of this 2 countries (and
also considering near-by locations) can benefith from this event.

I'm sure that China and India has, not only impressive locations, but also
amazing people. So I would encourage you all to vote for those locations
that need our help to grow.

see ya!


-- 
tatica
Maria Gracia Leandro
http://www.tatica.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:tatica
LinuxUser= 440285  GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56

[Truong Anh Tuan]

----- Original Message -----
>  From: "María Leandro" <tatica(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
>  To: ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 7:02:42 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] FUDCon APAC bids
>  
>  Both bids are really great, and taking Kital words this decition
>  cannot be done "on a subjective/feeling bases". 
+1, once more.

>  One of the most important points to take a decition on LATAM last
>  FUDcon was, more than a bid itself (since all where impressive) take
>  a decition based on local community. FUDcon, FAD and other events
>  should be a base to increase and strengthen local communities. In
>  this case, I would suggest... yes, go ahead with a +1 vote, but
>  consider which of this 2 countries (and also considering near-by
>  locations) can benefith from this event. 
+1.

I think any bidder with experience in organizing FADs and other similar
Fedora events prior would be good.

>  I'm sure that China and India has, not only impressive locations,
> but
>  also amazing people. So I would encourage you all to vote for those
>  locations that need our help to grow. 
Could we ask someone in Infrastructure team or others to setup a vote
with all suggested factors?
We (Ambassadors team, regardless in APAC or not) will all go voting to
choose the best one transparently.

Kind regards, 
Tuan

[Danishka Navin]

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 6:55 AM, Truong Anh. Tuan <tuanta(a)iwayvietnam.com&gt;wrote:

>  ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: "María Leandro" <tatica(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
>  > To: ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 7:02:42 AM
>  > Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] FUDCon APAC bids
>  >
>  > Both bids are really great, and taking Kital words this decition
>  > cannot be done "on a subjective/feeling bases".
>
>  +1, once more.
>
>  > One of the most important points to take a decition on LATAM last
>  > FUDcon was, more than a bid itself (since all where impressive) take
>  > a decition based on local community. FUDcon, FAD and other events
>  > should be a base to increase and strengthen local communities. In
>  > this case, I would suggest... yes, go ahead with a +1 vote, but
>  > consider which of this 2 countries (and also considering near-by
>  > locations) can benefith from this event.
>
>  +1.
>
>  I think any bidder with experience in organizing FADs and other similar
>  Fedora events prior would be good.
>
>  > I'm sure that China and India has, not only impressive locations, but
>  > also amazing people. So I would encourage you all to vote for those
>  > locations that need our help to grow.
>
>  Could we ask someone in Infrastructure team or others to setup a vote
>  with all suggested factors?
>  We (Ambassadors team, regardless in APAC or not) will all go voting to
>  choose the best one transparently.
>  

+1

anyway my 1st preference is India and then China :)



>  Kind regards,
>  Tuan
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  


-- 
Danishka Navin
http://danishkanavin.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/danishkanavin
http://identi.ca/danishka
http://www.flickr.com/photos/danishkanavin/

[Neville A. Cross]

On Sun, 2011-06-26 at 19:32 -0430, María Leandro wrote:
>  Hello all.
>  
>  Both bids are really great, and taking Kital words this decition
>  cannot be done "on a subjective/feeling bases".
>  
>  One of the most important points to take a decition on LATAM last
>  FUDcon was, more than a bid itself (since all where impressive) take a
>  decition based on local community. FUDcon, FAD and other events should
>  be a base to increase and strengthen local communities. In this case,
>  I would suggest... yes, go ahead with a +1 vote, but consider which of
>  this 2 countries (and also considering near-by locations) can benefith
>  from this event.
>  
>  I'm sure that China and India has, not only impressive locations, but
>  also amazing people. So I would encourage you all to vote for those
>  locations that need our help to grow.
>  
>  see ya! 
I think that we have to different subset of community. The India Bid
shows a big community that can provide a lot of things done during and
after the event. In the other hand the China bid shows a community
needing a hand to grow. Both are really important, but we can only have
one this year.

From far far far faaar away it is difficult to really understand which
will produce better results for our community. 

Best regards

-- 
Neville
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v
Linux User # 473217

[inode0]

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 10:49 PM, Neville A. Cross <neville(a)taygon.com&gt; wrote:
>  I think that we have to different subset of community. The India Bid
>  shows a big community that can provide a lot of things done during and
>  after the event. In the other hand the China bid shows a community
>  needing a hand to grow. Both are really important, but we can only have
>  one this year.
>
>  From far far far faaar away it is difficult to really understand which
>  will produce better results for our community. 
I've not been very helpful in this discussion and about all I can say
is that Neville is exactly right. I have no idea how one could ever
choose between them without some high-level project goals in mind. I'd
like to select both, one for 2011 and the other for 2012 right now!

John

[Jared K. Smith]

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:58 PM, inode0 <inode0(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  I've not been very helpful in this discussion and about all I can
> say
>  is that Neville is exactly right. I have no idea how one could ever
>  choose between them without some high-level project goals in mind. I'd
>  like to select both, one for 2011 and the other for 2012 right now! 
I think that sentiment is well and good, but I also know that the
Malasian team declined to bid for 2011 but would very much like to put
together a bid for 2012.  In the interest of fairness, we'll be
opening up bids for FUDCon APAC 2012 just as soon as we announce the
winning bid for 2011, and shoot to have FUDCon APAC 2012 somewhere in
the June/July/August timeframe.

--
Jared Smith
Fedora Project Leader

[Gerard Braad]

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Jared K. Smith
<jsmith(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:58 PM, inode0 <inode0(a)gmail.com&gt;
> wrote:
> > I've not been very helpful in this discussion and about all I can say
> > is that Neville is exactly right. I have no idea how one could ever
> > choose between them without some high-level project goals in mind. I'd
> > like to select both, one for 2011 and the other for 2012 right now!
>  I think that sentiment is well and good, but I also know that the
>  Malasian team declined to bid for 2011 but would very much like to put
>  together a bid for 2012.  In the interest of fairness, we'll be
>  opening up bids for FUDCon APAC 2012 just as soon as we announce the
>  winning bid for 2011, and shoot to have FUDCon APAC 2012 somewhere in
>  the June/July/August timeframe. 
I believe both communities are important and exactly for the same
reasons as Neville. I can only say that any help to the Chinese
community is a win for the long-term. No matter what the outcome will
be, I am sure this will be seen as an inspiration. However, I am also
worried that most of the Chinese members are not able to attend the
Indian FUDCon. As mentioned earlier, it would be wise to have someone
who can decide for us based on metrics, but also with a good
understanding of both options.

About the timeframe for APAC 2012? I would say that is later and
certainly NOT the ideal period; baking hot temperatures ;-)

Gerard

-- 
Gerard Braad — 吉拉德
   Regional Mentor for APAC/China, Member of FAmSCo
   http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad

[Jared K. Smith]

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Gerard Braad <gbraad(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  About the timeframe for APAC 2012? I would say that is later and
>  certainly NOT the ideal period; baking hot temperatures ;-) 
Certainly not ideal, but I'd really like to have one FUDCon per
quarter next year.

If one of the other groups is willing to swap quarters with APAC, I'm
fine with that.  Currently, we have FUDCon LATAM in the may/june/july
time frame, FUDCon EMEA in the September/October time frame, and
FUDCon North America in the December/January time frame.  If LATAM is
willing to move to June/July/August time frame, APAC could have
March/April/May.  Or maybe EMEA would rather shift to another part of
the year?

Anybody else have suggestions for how we can get to one FUDCon per
quarter next year?  I had one person suggest that we should have
different regions of the world bid against each other, but I'm not
sure if that would solve more problems than it causes.  I'm certainly
open to thinking outside the box on this one.

--
Jared Smith
Fedora Project Leader

[Robyn Bergeron]

On 06/28/2011 06:00 AM, Gerard Braad wrote:
>  On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Jared K. Smith
>  <jsmith(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;  wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:58 PM, inode0&lt;inode0(a)gmail.com&gt;  wrote:
> >> I've not been very helpful in this discussion and about all I can say
> >> is that Neville is exactly right. I have no idea how one could ever
> >> choose between them without some high-level project goals in mind. I'd
> >> like to select both, one for 2011 and the other for 2012 right now!
> > I think that sentiment is well and good, but I also know that the
> > Malasian team declined to bid for 2011 but would very much like to put
> > together a bid for 2012.  In the interest of fairness, we'll be
> > opening up bids for FUDCon APAC 2012 just as soon as we announce the
> > winning bid for 2011, and shoot to have FUDCon APAC 2012 somewhere in
> > the June/July/August timeframe.
>  I believe both communities are important and exactly for the same
>  reasons as Neville. I can only say that any help to the Chinese
>  community is a win for the long-term. No matter what the outcome will
>  be, I am sure this will be seen as an inspiration. However, I am also
>  worried that most of the Chinese members are not able to attend the
>  Indian FUDCon. As mentioned earlier, it would be wise to have someone
>  who can decide for us based on metrics, but also with a good
>  understanding of both options.
>
>  About the timeframe for APAC 2012? I would say that is later and
>  certainly NOT the ideal period; baking hot temperatures ;-) 
Not down under :)

Honestly, though - we have the same problem in NA, in that it's Winter 
during our scheduled quarter.  But really, with 3 FUDCons being in 
regions that are primarily in the Northern Hemisphere.... at least one 
of them is guaranteed to be in a bad quarter.

That said: Jared, the recurring event calendar says that APAC should be 
in Q1 (March - May) -- was there some agreement at some point about APAC 
switching quarters with LATAM, who currently is slotted for the June / 
July / August timeframe?

I'd really like for us to stick to the calendar -- makes it far more 
predictable as far as scheduling, people knowing what to expect, and 
when, etc.  If we've switched it around, we should update the calendar 
for FUDCons and their expected quarters.  (That said, if people want to 
come to an agreement about what makes more sense, weather-wise, I'm all 
ears, so long as we can make it (a) predictable, and stick to it for the 
next year or two, and (b) make sure it doesn't involve loading a bunch 
into the same time frame, so it's easier to do planning, get press 
attention, get things paid for, etc.)

-Robyn


>  Gerard
>

[Jared K. Smith]

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Robyn Bergeron <rbergero(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  That said: Jared, the recurring event calendar says that APAC should
> be
>  in Q1 (March - May) -- was there some agreement at some point about APAC
>  switching quarters with LATAM, who currently is slotted for the June /
>  July / August timeframe? 
I didn't realize that the recurring event calendar had been updated,
and has APAC in Q1.  I'm fine with the schedule as it appears on that
calendar.  (I was going off of when the FUDCons had been held last
year and this year, which is why I was off.)

>  I'd really like for us to stick to the calendar -- makes it far
> more
>  predictable as far as scheduling, people knowing what to expect, and
>  when, etc. 
That's perfectly fine with me.

--
Jared Smith
Fedora Project Leader

[Neville A. Cross]

On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 10:27 -0400, Jared K. Smith wrote:
>  On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Robyn Bergeron
> <rbergero(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  > That said: Jared, the recurring event calendar says that APAC should be
>  > in Q1 (March - May) -- was there some agreement at some point about APAC
>  > switching quarters with LATAM, who currently is slotted for the June /
>  > July / August timeframe?
>  
>  I didn't realize that the recurring event calendar had been updated,
>  and has APAC in Q1.  I'm fine with the schedule as it appears on that
>  calendar.  (I was going off of when the FUDCons had been held last
>  year and this year, which is why I was off.)
>  
>  > I'd really like for us to stick to the calendar -- makes it far more
>  > predictable as far as scheduling, people knowing what to expect, and
>  > when, etc.
>  
>  That's perfectly fine with me.
>   
I think that there is only one Northern Hemisphere region ... EMEA can
have an event is South Africa anytime and APAC may suggest have one in
New Zeland, just as examples... For LATAM we already have South in
Brazil and Chili; and also North in Panama.

I enjoy moderate weather, but Fudcon is mostly indoors, so not a big
problem. I don't see right now an escenario where we are going to pick a
location that does not have acclimatized halls.

I do think that having one Fudcon each quarter makes sense, from budget
to peoples times! I also believe that with a full quarter there is
plenty to pick a local time that fits.

I will go with a quarter calendar, without problem.

Best regards




-- 
Neville
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v
Linux User # 473217

[susmit shannigrahi]

>  However, I am also
>  worried that most of the Chinese members are not able to attend the
>  Indian FUDCon. 
Do you have any particular reason in mind?
I am not sure why.


-- 
Regards,
Susmit.

=============================================
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit
=============================================

[Tiansworld]

On 06/28/2011 10:02 PM, susmit shannigrahi wrote:
> > However, I am also
> > worried that most of the Chinese members are not able to attend the
> > Indian FUDCon.
>
>  Do you have any particular reason in mind?
>  I am not sure why.
>
>  
IMHO, there are several reasons:
One of them is , India is far from Chinese developed cities(Eastern and 
south eastern of China) where linux communities grow faster than the 
other cities.
Another of them is: Most of linux users are students from university or 
staffs from different companies. For students, they MAY have time, but 
don't have enough money for the trip, for staffs, they MAY have money, 
but don't have enough time. :)

-- 
Regards,

Tiansworld
Fedora Project Ambassador

[Aditya Patawari]

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Tiansworld
<tiansworld(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  IMHO, there are several reasons:
>  One of them is , India is far from Chinese developed cities(Eastern and
>  south eastern of China) where linux communities grow faster than the
>  other cities.
>  Another of them is: Most of linux users are students from university or
>  staffs from different companies. For students, they MAY have time, but
>  don't have enough money for the trip, for staffs, they MAY have money,
>  but don't have enough time. :) 
Isn't this applicable to all the contributors/students/staffs
regardless of the country?
I agree with what Neville said. Both long term and short term
consequences should be taken into account. Both the venues will
benefit fedora project in one way or the other.

--
Aditya Patawari
http://blog.adityapatawari.com/
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adimania
India

[Tiansworld]

On 06/28/2011 10:40 PM, Aditya Patawari wrote:

>  Isn't this applicable to all the contributors/students/staffs
>  regardless of the country? 
Yes, you are right.
So I think there will be more attendants from the place that holds the 
conference.
It is a good opportunity for the communities of each bid.


-- 
Regards,

Tiansworld
Fedora Project Ambassador

[Truong Anh Tuan]

----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Buddhika Kurera" <bckurera(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
>  To: ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 9:40:07 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] FUDCon APAC bids
>  
>  By referring two wiki pages for bids we can see India has almost done
>  most of planning stuffs rather than China bid. Further at the moment
>  India bid page seems to be a very popular place as there is more
>  than 70 registered people for the event. The number of the
>  facilitators is also higher. The cost of the place and cost of
>  travelling seems to be lesser (not able to find a budget for China
>  bid). Their calculated budget also with in the range that is
>  proposed for the APAC FUDcon. Further India is a rich place of
>  Fedora contributors, and hope this event will trigger them and can
>  be invested to get more contribution towards the project. The air
>  ticket fees for the location from interested contributor locations
>  should be considered as well. 
+1.
IMO, I also prefer India.

Kind regards, 
Tuan

[Joerg Simon]

On 06/25/2011 10:19 PM, Igor Pires Soares wrote:
>  Here are the links:
>  India bid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:India_2011
>  China bid: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2011
>  Feel free to share your ideas, concerns and questions about both bids.
>  FAmSCo members will cast a vote on this until next Tuesday and then make
>  a recommendation for the next FUDCon APAC. 
i want to suggest to use a clearer metric to make such a important
decission - the last decission making for FUDCon EMEA was done more on a
subjective/feeling bases - and left some people behind with the question
- why. Just +1 or -1 seems not enough!

We already had a more clear decission-making in 2010 with the decission
for the last FUDCon Panama 2011 where some concerns about Panama occured
from other countries inside LATAM - but with some simple components to
consider we could provide a good base for our decission - pro Panama.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?hl=de&key=tJN3ZgmqZ07...

From the reports - i see the FUDCon Panama was a good Event and the
decission right. So in the LATAM Case we could proof that the Panama Bid
is solid enough even if they did not had the highest score - but
combined with the subjective facts to consider the decission was
transparent.

FAmSCo please provide a clear base for your vote on the FUDConBids in
APAC! Feel free to improve the components listed in the spreadsheet by
things like "Visa Affairs", "expected Community growth in that
region"
etc. ...



thanks Joerg
-- 
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

[Truong Anh Tuan]

----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Joerg Simon" <jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
>  To: ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org, "Jared K. Smith"
> <jsmith(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
>  Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 8:21:26 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] FUDCon APAC bids
>  
>  i want to suggest to use a clearer metric to make such a important
>  decission - the last decission making for FUDCon EMEA was done more on a
>  subjective/feeling bases - and left some people behind with the question
>  - why. Just +1 or -1 seems not enough!
>  
>  We already had a more clear decission-making in 2010 with the decission
>  for the last FUDCon Panama 2011 where some concerns about Panama occured
>  from other countries inside LATAM - but with some simple components to
>  consider we could provide a good base for our decission - pro Panama.
>  
>
> https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?hl=de&key=tJN3ZgmqZ07...
>  
>  From the reports - i see the FUDCon Panama was a good Event and the
>  decission right. So in the LATAM Case we could proof that the Panama Bid
>  is solid enough even if they did not had the highest score - but
>  combined with the subjective facts to consider the decission was
>  transparent. 
It's simply the best way to choose the right location.

>  FAmSCo please provide a clear base for your vote on the FUDConBids
> in
>  APAC! Feel free to improve the components listed in the spreadsheet by
>  things like "Visa Affairs", "expected Community growth in that
> region"
>  etc. ... 
+1.

Kind regards, 
Tuan

[Heherson Pagcaliwagan]

On 06/26/2011 09:21 PM, Joerg Simon wrote:
>  On 06/25/2011 10:19 PM, Igor Pires Soares wrote:
> > Here are the links:
> > India bid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:India_2011
> > China bid: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2011
> > Feel free to share your ideas, concerns and questions about both bids.
> > FAmSCo members will cast a vote on this until next Tuesday and then make
> > a recommendation for the next FUDCon APAC. 
First of all, congratulations to both teams for making the bids. They're
achievements in themselves and we hope we can pick the better one and
grow from the experience as a region.

>  i want to suggest to use a clearer metric to make such a important
>  decission - the last decission making for FUDCon EMEA was done more on a
>  subjective/feeling bases - and left some people behind with the question
>  - why. Just +1 or -1 seems not enough!
>  
>  We already had a more clear decission-making in 2010 with the decission
>  for the last FUDCon Panama 2011 where some concerns about Panama occured
>  from other countries inside LATAM - but with some simple components to
>  consider we could provide a good base for our decission - pro Panama.
>  
>
> https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?hl=de&key=tJN3ZgmqZ07...
Looking at what Panama did, we may have three major criteria and lots of
equally important sub-criteria. The percentages limit the total points a
criteria can have. Sub-criteria adds up to criteria points.

It goes without saying that below shows my bias.

Location (20%)
- venue
- cultural interest
- safety

Costs (40%)
- venue
- travel
- accomodation

People (40%)
- local support
- local and foreign contributors

--herson

>  From the reports - i see the FUDCon Panama was a good Event and the
>  decission right. So in the LATAM Case we could proof that the Panama Bid
>  is solid enough even if they did not had the highest score - but
>  combined with the subjective facts to consider the decission was
>  transparent.
>  
>  FAmSCo please provide a clear base for your vote on the FUDConBids in
>  APAC! Feel free to improve the components listed in the spreadsheet by
>  things like "Visa Affairs", "expected Community growth in that
> region"
>  etc. ...
>  
>  
>  
>  thanks Joerg
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors

[Igor Pires Soares]

Em Dom, 2011-06-26 às 15:21 +0200, Joerg Simon escreveu:
>  On 06/25/2011 10:19 PM, Igor Pires Soares wrote:
>  > Here are the links:
>  > India bid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:India_2011
>  > China bid: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2011
>  > Feel free to share your ideas, concerns and questions about both bids.
>  > FAmSCo members will cast a vote on this until next Tuesday and then make
>  > a recommendation for the next FUDCon APAC.
>  
>  i want to suggest to use a clearer metric to make such a important
>  decission - the last decission making for FUDCon EMEA was done more on a
>  subjective/feeling bases - and left some people behind with the question
>  - why. Just +1 or -1 seems not enough!
>  
>  We already had a more clear decission-making in 2010 with the decission
>  for the last FUDCon Panama 2011 where some concerns about Panama occured
>  from other countries inside LATAM - but with some simple components to
>  consider we could provide a good base for our decission - pro Panama.
>  
>
> https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?hl=de&key=tJN3ZgmqZ07...
>  
>  From the reports - i see the FUDCon Panama was a good Event and the
>  decission right. So in the LATAM Case we could proof that the Panama Bid
>  is solid enough even if they did not had the highest score - but
>  combined with the subjective facts to consider the decission was
>  transparent.
>  
>  FAmSCo please provide a clear base for your vote on the FUDConBids in
>  APAC! Feel free to improve the components listed in the spreadsheet by
>  things like "Visa Affairs", "expected Community growth in that
> region"
>  etc. ... 
IMHO opinion having a spreadsheet with metrics could be helpful, but I
would like that to be made by someone who knows the region really well.
Otherwise the numbers will be as subjective as any other subjective
aspect.

One of the things that helped for FUDCon Panamá was that we had some
bidders in the decision meeting sharing concerns about each location,
what helped the chosen one to work on the liabilities pointed out by
that time. This is basically what we are doing on this thread, and
certainly APAC bidders are reading it carefully.

If someone neutral from APAC could put a spreadsheet together, based on
the one provided by Joerg, it would be a nice to have in order to
support the decision. I would like to suggest an additional field
"community commitment to the bid" as one more aspect to be considered.
That was one of the main aspects we considered for FUDCon Milan, and I
think it is very important.

Regards,
-- 
Igor Pires Soares
Fedora Ambassador (Brazil) - Member of FAmSCo
Fedora I18N/L10N QA
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Igor

[inode0]

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Igor Pires Soares <igorsoares(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  IMHO opinion having a spreadsheet with metrics could be helpful, but
> I
>  would like that to be made by someone who knows the region really well.
>  Otherwise the numbers will be as subjective as any other subjective
>  aspect. 
I planned to stay out of this thread largely because I don't really
think a public vote of all ambassadors really makes much sense.
However I do agree with Igor here. I helped a little bit with the last
LATAM organizational meetings concerning site selection and
sponsorships and I found this spreadsheet very difficult to make sense
of as I think most people did. Not only are most of the listed items
not something easy to determine from far away but the categories being
used didn't really capture the things we felt were important (not that
the things listed weren't important).

Part of selecting a site is answering questions like:

How much would a FUDCon in this area improve Fedora participation in the region?
How much would a FUDCon in this area result in actual productive work
being done during the event? Shortly after the event? Long term?

These are subjective by their nature and I don't think we can pretend
processes like site selection and sponsorship selection aren't
subjective.

I also agree with Kital that +1 isn't enough. Even when we form an
opinion and make a decision based on subjective factors everyone
involved deserves to have a clear understanding of what went into the
decision. These decisions, because they aren't a simple exercise in
mathematics, are the hardest ones to make.

Perhaps if FAmSCo was given some guidance about what the Fedora
Project hopes to achieve with a particular event that could help them
in making a suggestion. Which of the bids do you prefer? vs. Which of
the bids do you prefer in light of goals A, B, and C? If there aren't
goals that extend beyond the region then I'd be happy seeing the FPL
work with that region to decide the location.

John

[Joerg Simon]

On 06/27/2011 05:14 PM, inode0 wrote:
>  I planned to stay out of this thread largely because I don't
> really
>  think a public vote of all ambassadors really makes much sense. 
i also think a public vote does not make sense - but a public
communitcation to evaluate the candidates, is showing that we care for
the bids

>  However I do agree with Igor here. I helped a little bit with the
> last
>  LATAM organizational meetings concerning site selection and
>  sponsorships and I found this spreadsheet very difficult to make sense
>  of as I think most people did. Not only are most of the listed items
>  not something easy to determine from far away but the categories being
>  used didn't really capture the things we felt were important (not that
>  the things listed weren't important). 
ok - i love to quantify things ;) - but i am not always right - i
thought it was a good idea to have facts(and find new facts) as a base
for this decission and take the other things you mention later in your
mail as further "weight" in the one or other direction.

>  Part of selecting a site is answering questions like:
>  
>  How much would a FUDCon in this area improve Fedora participation in the region?
>  How much would a FUDCon in this area result in actual productive work
>  being done during the event? Shortly after the event? Long term? 
>  Perhaps if FAmSCo was given some guidance about what the Fedora
>  Project hopes to achieve with a particular event 
I can only give my perspective, and maybe i am alone with this opinion,
but from my experiences with EMEA and NA FUDCons - A FUDCon is a
Conference for People who already have something to contribute, want to
extend their horizon within the Fedora Project or just want to meet and
work together over a period of time.

Considering that i do not think that the main purpose of a FUDCon is to
attract new User or Contributors - once again - from what i experienced
a FUDCon is more something like a large FAD where multiple sessions,
multiple teams meet and work together.

So concentrate only on this questions i would asume(biased):

A FUDCon in India would be a "Getting Things Done" Event - because there
is a strong core community and long time contributors with already a lot
interesting sessions
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:India_2011#Sessions

For Beijing i can not answer if there is a large enough Fedora
contributor-base outside the Ambassadors - to work on something during a
3 day conference( from what i know we have a very commited but small base).
Or if the scope would be more a Fedora Introduction-Conference to
Students? If yes, this would be another concept of event from my pov!
And would need also other advertising.

But as said - maybe i am not right with my opinion because of wrong
impression.

cu Joerg

-- 
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

[alejandro perez]

Well I have been reading all about these bids and I think they did a
great job and the two of them has a great opportunity to make a
marvelous FUDcon. There are only two thinks I like to comment:

One of the things that was against Panama bid on Latam was the fact that
there were no many contributors on Panama, only 4 ambassadors and 2 of
them working on others areas of Fedora Project. So our goal was to bring
as many people that can contribute and show the local community how to
do so, that has lead us now to have 8 new translators and some more
packagers, with 8 working on become a packagers, this is small numbers
as contributors(but big numbers for Panama), but as I mention on the
Latam bid. If we only do FUDcon's where there are many contributors then
it is going to be difficult to empower local communities to become
Fedora Contributors. Not sure as what is the goal of a FUDcon but his
name mention Users and Contributors, in Panama we mix Contributors
bringing them from outsite with users and now we have more locals as
contributor. So to me FUDcon is also a way to identify local talent and
encourage them to become contributors.

As many have said it is a thought call to decide witch one should be the
host, and India can be a good place to bring more people together and
work on Fedora. China can be a great place to show how to become
contributors and empower that local community as happens on Panama.

As I have no other experience on FUDcon my opinion can have a very small
perspective.

My two cents.

On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 17:21 +0200, Joerg Simon wrote:
>  On 06/27/2011 05:14 PM, inode0 wrote:
>  > I planned to stay out of this thread largely because I don't really
>  > think a public vote of all ambassadors really makes much sense.
>  
>  i also think a public vote does not make sense - but a public
>  communitcation to evaluate the candidates, is showing that we care for
>  the bids
>  
>  > However I do agree with Igor here. I helped a little bit with the last
>  > LATAM organizational meetings concerning site selection and
>  > sponsorships and I found this spreadsheet very difficult to make sense
>  > of as I think most people did. Not only are most of the listed items
>  > not something easy to determine from far away but the categories being
>  > used didn't really capture the things we felt were important (not that
>  > the things listed weren't important).
>  
>  ok - i love to quantify things ;) - but i am not always right - i
>  thought it was a good idea to have facts(and find new facts) as a base
>  for this decission and take the other things you mention later in your
>  mail as further "weight" in the one or other direction.
>  
>  > Part of selecting a site is answering questions like:
>  > 
>  > How much would a FUDCon in this area improve Fedora participation in the region?
>  > How much would a FUDCon in this area result in actual productive work
>  > being done during the event? Shortly after the event? Long term?
>  
>  > Perhaps if FAmSCo was given some guidance about what the Fedora
>  > Project hopes to achieve with a particular event
>  
>  I can only give my perspective, and maybe i am alone with this opinion,
>  but from my experiences with EMEA and NA FUDCons - A FUDCon is a
>  Conference for People who already have something to contribute, want to
>  extend their horizon within the Fedora Project or just want to meet and
>  work together over a period of time.
>  
>  Considering that i do not think that the main purpose of a FUDCon is to
>  attract new User or Contributors - once again - from what i experienced
>  a FUDCon is more something like a large FAD where multiple sessions,
>  multiple teams meet and work together.
>  
>  So concentrate only on this questions i would asume(biased):
>  
>  A FUDCon in India would be a "Getting Things Done" Event - because there
>  is a strong core community and long time contributors with already a lot
>  interesting sessions
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:India_2011#Sessions
>  
>  For Beijing i can not answer if there is a large enough Fedora
>  contributor-base outside the Ambassadors - to work on something during a
>  3 day conference( from what i know we have a very commited but small base).
>  Or if the scope would be more a Fedora Introduction-Conference to
>  Students? If yes, this would be another concept of event from my pov!
>  And would need also other advertising.
>  
>  But as said - maybe i am not right with my opinion because of wrong
>  impression.
>  
>  cu Joerg
>  
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors

[itamar]

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Alejandro Perez <aeperezt(a)hotmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Well I have been reading all about these bids and I think they did a
>  great job and the two of them has a great opportunity to make a
>  marvelous FUDcon. There are only two thinks I like to comment:
>
>  One of the things that was against Panama bid on Latam was the fact that
>  there were no many contributors on Panama, only 4 ambassadors and 2 of
>  them working on others areas of Fedora Project. So our goal was to bring
>  as many people that can contribute and show the local community how to
>  do so, that has lead us now to have 8 new translators and some more
>  packagers, with 8 working on become a packagers, this is small numbers
>  as contributors(but big numbers for Panama), but as I mention on the
>  Latam bid. If we only do FUDcon's where there are many contributors then
>  it is going to be difficult to empower local communities to become
>  Fedora Contributors. Not sure as what is the goal of a FUDcon but his
>  name mention Users and Contributors, in Panama we mix Contributors
>  bringing them from outsite with users and now we have more locals as
>  contributor. So to me FUDcon is also a way to identify local talent and
>  encourage them to become contributors.
>
>  As many have said it is a thought call to decide witch one should be the
>  host, and India can be a good place to bring more people together and
>  work on Fedora. China can be a great place to show how to become
>  contributors and empower that local community as happens on Panama.
>
>  As I have no other experience on FUDcon my opinion can have a very small
>  perspective.
>
>  My two cents.
>  
Alejandro is totally right, we must use fudcon to recruit new
developers/contributors.




------------

Itamar Reis Peixoto
msn, google talk: itamar(a)ispbrasil.com.br
[phone] (FIXO SP)
[phone] (TIM)
[phone] (OI)
[phone] (FIXO MG)

[Joerg Simon]

On 06/28/2011 09:19 PM, Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote:
>  Alejandro is totally right, we must use fudcon to recruit new
>  developers/contributors. 
i personally think the opposite - our work as Ambassadors and our
presence and talks on generic FOSS-Events are the place for recruiting
new contributors, not a FUDCon. But as always there is maybe more then
one truth.

Do not get me wrong, i strongly supported and voted for Panama back in
2010 [1] and i am happy that this FUDCon was a catalyst for the Fedora
Project.

cu Joerg

[1]
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2010-11-01/fedora-meeti...
-- 
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

[alejandro perez]

Jeorg,

You are right and we appreciate your help then, now adding something,
when we compare the APAC bids with LATAM bids there is one difference
not sure if it is a big difference or not, LATAM had 3 FUDcon before 2
of them on Brasil which is where Fedora LATAM has more contribuidor
therefore it was time to allow other areas to have FUDcon. In APAC case
India is what Brasil is for LATAM, with no FUDcon there before. Hope
this help making your decision. 

    On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 22:06 +0200, Joerg Simon wrote:
>  On 06/28/2011 09:19 PM, Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote:
>  > Alejandro is totally right, we must use fudcon to recruit new
>  > developers/contributors.
>  
>  i personally think the opposite - our work as Ambassadors and our
>  presence and talks on generic FOSS-Events are the place for recruiting
>  new contributors, not a FUDCon. But as always there is maybe more then
>  one truth.
>  
>  Do not get me wrong, i strongly supported and voted for Panama back in
>  2010 [1] and i am happy that this FUDCon was a catalyst for the Fedora
>  Project.
>  
>  cu Joerg
>  
>  [1]
>
> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2010-11-01/fedora-meeti...
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 06/29/2011 06:23 AM, Alejandro Perez wrote:
>  Jeorg,
>
>  You are right and we appreciate your help then, now adding something,
>  when we compare the APAC bids with LATAM bids there is one difference
>  not sure if it is a big difference or not, LATAM had 3 FUDcon before 2
>  of them on Brasil which is where Fedora LATAM has more contribuidor
>  therefore it was time to allow other areas to have FUDcon. In APAC case
>  India is what Brasil is for LATAM, with no FUDcon there before. Hope
>  this help making your decision.  
That is not true.   I along with many others ran a FUDCon back in 2006
in Delhi as part of the Linux Asia conference. 

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:FUDConDelhi2006

Of course,  FUDCon back then wasn't really anything at all like the
FUDCon's we run now.   It wasn't barcamp style with a community of
contributors participating and running hackfests etc but it was still a
FUDCon :-)

Rahul

[alejandro perez]

Well, you are right. India has a previus FUDcon
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fudcon#2006

But I was under the impression APAC did not have FUDcon before, thanks
for clarifying it.

On Wed, 2011-06-29 at 06:29 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>  On 06/29/2011 06:23 AM, Alejandro Perez wrote:
>  > Jeorg,
>  >
>  > You are right and we appreciate your help then, now adding something,
>  > when we compare the APAC bids with LATAM bids there is one difference
>  > not sure if it is a big difference or not, LATAM had 3 FUDcon before 2
>  > of them on Brasil which is where Fedora LATAM has more contribuidor
>  > therefore it was time to allow other areas to have FUDcon. In APAC case
>  > India is what Brasil is for LATAM, with no FUDcon there before. Hope
>  > this help making your decision. 
>  
>  That is not true.   I along with many others ran a FUDCon back in 2006
>  in Delhi as part of the Linux Asia conference. 
>  
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:FUDConDelhi2006
>  
>  Of course,  FUDCon back then wasn't really anything at all like the
>  FUDCon's we run now.   It wasn't barcamp style with a community of
>  contributors participating and running hackfests etc but it was still a
>  FUDCon :-)
>  
>  Rahul
>  
>  
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>

[Joerg Simon]

On 06/29/2011 02:53 AM, Alejandro Perez wrote:
>  You are right and we appreciate your help then 
i just want to add, i like that a lot of us care about this topic! ;)
And, woever will not get selected as the FUDCon Location - there is
always the opportunity to organize a Fedora Activity Day as a way to
meet and work together more focused - on a smaller scale.
Lets look forward to a decission ;)

cu Joerg
-- 
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

[Truong Anh Tuan]

----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Joerg Simon" <jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
>  To: ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:15:54 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] FUDCon APAC bids
>  
>  i just want to add, i like that a lot of us care about this topic! ;)
>  And, woever will not get selected as the FUDCon Location - there is
>  always the opportunity to organize a Fedora Activity Day as a way to
>  meet and work together more focused - on a smaller scale.
>  Lets look forward to a decission ;) 
+1.

Trying to organize FADs before FUDCon is a really good idea.
It has been discussed a lot in APAC Ambassadors special meeting on
every Wednesday (one would be scheduled this evening).

Kind regards, 
Tuan

[Abdel Gadiel Martínez Lassonde]

It's great that India will be the posible place for that FUDCon.  I consider
that there's a big computing population and interested in Fedora.  So let's
take advantage of it and make the event full of speeches and workshops.  If
there are a lot of people, the FUDCon can be celebrated during more days.
 What you think?

-- 
*Abdel G. Martínez L.
**Oracle Certified Associate, Java SE 5 and 6*
***Fedora Ambassador & Campus Ambassador*
*Fedora Developer & Packager*

*Celular:
**6125-1563

**Correo Electrónico:
*
*abdel.g.martinez.l(a)gmail.com* <abdel.g.martinez.l(a)gmail.com&gt;

[Tiansworld]

Guys,

I will be disappointed if China lost this chance.
As you have mentioned that:
India has held FUDCON bedore
India has more contributors and ambassadors
India is getting things done,
India has a big computing population and interested in Fedora

I want to say some thing about China Fedora community,
1. China also has a big computing population and interested in Fedora
2. The active contributors and ambassadors may not as many as they are 
in India, but I want to use a simple L10n statistics to let you know 
about Chinese contributors:
    98% and 84% of Fedora 15 and websites translation completed, ranged 
at top 10 even top 5 among all L10n teams. L10n work before Fedora 15 
lovelock were also well done.
3. More and more users become to contributors
4. More and more local user group begin to hold Fedora events.(Although 
it's still in a low frequency and small scale, it's growing.) You may 
refer to the recent event here:[1]
5. India's bidding page has more details on budget and pre-registration, 
but this don't means China can not do better.

I can't speak out all of my feelings about this due to my limited 
English level. But I am trying my best to let you know, that China 
Fedora community, Chinese contributors are active with very high 
enthusiasm. They are eager to hold Fudcon in their country.

Than you all.

[1] http://planet.fedoraproject.org/   search: The Log of Lovelock Event 
@ Canton

-- 
Regards,

Tiansworld
Fedora Project Ambassador Contributor

[Joerg Simon]

On 06/29/2011 01:48 PM, Tiansworld wrote:
>  Guys,
>  
>  I will be disappointed if China lost this chance. 
i understand that - but decission making often means (in this case for
India or China) - you can not make it right for everyone - terrible truth.

...
>  India is getting things done,
>  India has a big computing population and interested in Fedora
>  I want to say some thing about China Fedora community,
>  1. China also has a big computing population and interested in Fedora
>  2. The active contributors and ambassadors may not as many as they are 
>  in India  
...
>  3. More and more users become to contributors
>  4. More and more local user group begin to hold Fedora events.(Although 
>  it's still in a low frequency and small scale, it's growing.) You may 
>  refer to the recent event here:[1]
>  5. India's bidding page has more details on budget and pre-registration, 
>  but this don't means China can not do better. 
i suggested a metric (based on some facts) in the first place as a first
filter - i learned that this is not wanted by a majority - which is ok!

I go with the statements from other posts in this thread - decission
makers may consider:

Define - what is primary scope/goal of a(this special) FUDCon?
(get things done, get new contributors, both - weighted or equal?)

Which location and serve the scope/goal best?

>  But I am trying my best to let you know, that China 
>  Fedora community, Chinese contributors are active with very high 
>  enthusiasm. They are eager to hold Fudcon in their country. 
there was never and is no doubt about that!


cu Joerg Simon

-- 
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

[inode0]

2011/6/29 Joerg Simon <jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  i suggested a metric (based on some facts) in the first place as a
> first
>  filter - i learned that this is not wanted by a majority - which is ok! 
Joerg,

I want to say a little more about the spreadsheet because I don't want
anyone to think that it is unwanted. I really had two issues with the
spreadsheet and both can be overcome with some discussion.

When we were handed the empty spreadsheet to use with an earlier
FUDCon there was for example a column titled something like "Located
in LATAM" and of course all the locations proposed would be in LATAM
for the LATAM FUDCon so this metric must be something a bit more than
just being located in LATAM. But we had no idea what that metric was
supposed to be measuring. That was a problem we ran into in several
places. So maybe some footnotes for each column explaining in more
detail what the metric in that column is supposed to be capturing
would help others feel more comfortable using it.

So issue #1 was largely that we didn't understand how to gather the
information necessary to plug numbers into the spreadsheet when not
understanding what each column was really intended to measure.
Education can solve this issue.

The other worry I have is that we don't get too mechanical in our
selection process. There are subjective and intangible elements to
FUDCon bids that are important and that are hard to attach meaningful
numbers to. But the combination of the spreadsheet (once we all
understand how to use it correctly) plus an attachment discussing the
other elements I believe could be a nice output from the process.

John

[Ben Williams]

On 06/29/2011 09:18 AM, inode0 wrote:
>  2011/6/29 Joerg Simon<jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org>:
> > i suggested a metric (based on some facts) in the first place as a first
> > filter - i learned that this is not wanted by a majority - which is ok!
>  Joerg,
>
>  I want to say a little more about the spreadsheet because I don't want
>  anyone to think that it is unwanted. I really had two issues with the
>  spreadsheet and both can be overcome with some discussion.
>
>  When we were handed the empty spreadsheet to use with an earlier
>  FUDCon there was for example a column titled something like "Located
>  in LATAM" and of course all the locations proposed would be in LATAM
>  for the LATAM FUDCon so this metric must be something a bit more than
>  just being located in LATAM. But we had no idea what that metric was
>  supposed to be measuring. That was a problem we ran into in several
>  places. So maybe some footnotes for each column explaining in more
>  detail what the metric in that column is supposed to be capturing
>  would help others feel more comfortable using it.
>
>  So issue #1 was largely that we didn't understand how to gather the
>  information necessary to plug numbers into the spreadsheet when not
>  understanding what each column was really intended to measure.
>  Education can solve this issue.
>
>  The other worry I have is that we don't get too mechanical in our
>  selection process. There are subjective and intangible elements to
>  FUDCon bids that are important and that are hard to attach meaningful
>  numbers to. But the combination of the spreadsheet (once we all
>  understand how to use it correctly) plus an attachment discussing the
>  other elements I believe could be a nice output from the process.
>
>  John
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>
>
>  
Guys, i have been sitting back and letting everyone plead their cases, 
it looks to me that both places have there +'s and -'s
at this point i think it comes down to a coin flip.

and I think that it is up to the APAC Ambassadors to come up with a 
recommendation ASAP and give that to the FPL NOW

HopeFully there will be more FUDCons in the Future for APAC so whomever 
doesnt get the bid this time already has a headstart on the next bidding 
process.

Ben

[Joerg Simon]

On 06/29/2011 03:34 PM, Ben Williams wrote:
>  Guys, i have been sitting back and letting everyone plead their
> cases, 
>  it looks to me that both places have there +'s and -'s
>  at this point i think it comes down to a coin flip. 
i hope FAmSCo will not make a coin flip ;)

>  and I think that it is up to the APAC Ambassadors to come up with a 
>  recommendation ASAP and give that to the FPL NOW 
yep, it is time according to:

On 06/25/2011 10:19 PM, Igor Pires Soares wrote:
>  FAmSCo members will cast a vote on this until next Tuesday and then
> make
>  a recommendation for the next FUDCon APAC. 

cu Joerg

-- 
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

[Pierros Papadeas]

Hello all,

As Chair of FAmSCo I am asking Board and FPL to delay the decision
making until at least upcoming Saturday.

On the weekly FAmSCo meeting (this Saturday) we will have a thorough
(and logical) discussion between the FAmSCo members, and decide upon
our recommendation.

Please do NOT continue replying on this thread. (unless you have
something constructive as a feedback)

Rest assured FAmSCo will not base its recommendation on a "coin flip".

Thanks for your understanding,

Pierros Papadeas
Chair of FAmSCo

2011/6/29 Joerg Simon <jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  On 06/29/2011 03:34 PM, Ben Williams wrote:
> > Guys, i have been sitting back and letting everyone plead their cases,
> > it looks to me that both places have there +'s and -'s
> > at this point i think it comes down to a coin flip.
>
>  i hope FAmSCo will not make a coin flip ;)
>
> > and I think that it is up to the APAC Ambassadors to come up with a
> > recommendation ASAP and give that to the FPL NOW
>
>  yep, it is time according to:
>
>  On 06/25/2011 10:19 PM, Igor Pires Soares wrote:
> > FAmSCo members will cast a vote on this until next Tuesday and then make
> > a recommendation for the next FUDCon APAC.
>
>
>  cu Joerg
>
>  --
>  Joerg (kital) Simon
>  jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
>  http://kitall.blogspot.com
>  Key Fingerprint:
>  3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
>
>
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  


-- 
Pierros Papadeas
PGP key: 0x6130DBF8
http://pierros.papadeas.gr
pierros(a)papadeas.gr
liknus @ GRnet , Freenode

[Jared K. Smith]

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Pierros Papadeas <ppapadeas(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  As Chair of FAmSCo I am asking Board and FPL to delay the decision
>  making until at least upcoming Saturday. 
OK, I'll wait to make my decision until after Saturday.  I'm on the
road this week, so waiting a few more days actually makes the
communication a bit easier.  Please be aware that there are several
factors that I'm going to use to make my decision, including feedback
from Ambassadors and FAmSCo, feedback from other contributors in the
area, evaluation of travel costs, and feedback from Red Hat as the
primary sponsor of the event.  So don't feel like I'm putting all the
responsibility for the decision on your shoulders -- I'll take your
input and add it to the rest of the feedback I receive and make the
final decision.

--
Jared Smith
Fedora Project Leader

[Buddhike Kurera]

Hello,

APAC had a special meatting yesterday to discuss the FUDcon bids.
Fortunately we had one from India to answer our questions.
Please find minutes
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2011-06-<http://meet...
29/apac.2011-06-29-14.03.html<http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-...

Hope you will find this "voice from APAC" useful.

Thanks


On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Jared K. Smith
<jsmith(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;wrote:

>  On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Pierros Papadeas
> <ppapadeas(a)gmail.com&gt;
>  wrote:
>  > As Chair of FAmSCo I am asking Board and FPL to delay the decision
>  > making until at least upcoming Saturday.
>
>  OK, I'll wait to make my decision until after Saturday.  I'm on the
>  road this week, so waiting a few more days actually makes the
>  communication a bit easier.  Please be aware that there are several
>  factors that I'm going to use to make my decision, including feedback
>  from Ambassadors and FAmSCo, feedback from other contributors in the
>  area, evaluation of travel costs, and feedback from Red Hat as the
>  primary sponsor of the event.  So don't feel like I'm putting all the
>  responsibility for the decision on your shoulders -- I'll take your
>  input and add it to the rest of the feedback I receive and make the
>  final decision.
>
>  --
>  Jared Smith
>  Fedora Project Leader
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  


-- 
Regards,

*Buddhike Chandradeepa Kurera*
The Editor in Chief - FOSS User Magazine
Fedora Ambassador - Sri Lanka

[Gerard Braad]

Hi All,


Thanks for the involvement. We as FAmSCo really appreciate this.

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Pierros Papadeas <ppapadeas(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  As Chair of FAmSCo I am asking Board and FPL to delay the decision
>  making until at least upcoming Saturday.
>  Pierros Papadeas
>  Chair of FAmSCo 
+1. I have been unavailable these days (since last Tuesday) helping my
wife arranging her trip to Manchester. I will be available from
tomorrow if a question might arise and prepare for the following
FAmSCo meeting.

Thanks Tian for his plead for the Chinese bid, but I have not answered
the questions why Chinese would have more difficulty to attend an
event in India; besides the mentioned reasons, it is also simple the
travel costs. For Chinese members we can consider to use train instead
of the more expensive plane options when time/travel allows it.

Joerg, I do believe FUDCon is also to foster the community by
attracting new contributors. A approach of this viewpoint; 'Any user
can be a potential contributor' and users is why we have a 'U' in the
name of FUDCon, else it would have just been 'FeDCon' and aimed at
Developers of Fedora.

At the moment I am starting conversations with Gnome.Asia to get them
involved. No matter which bid gets chosen, fostering the community and
the open source way in APAC has been and will be my main duty. ;-)

regards,


Gerard

-- 
Gerard Braad — 吉拉德
   Regional Mentor for APAC/China, Member of FAmSCo
   http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad

[Joerg Simon]

On 07/01/2011 09:51 AM, Gerard Braad wrote:
>  Joerg, I do believe FUDCon is also to foster the community by
>  attracting new contributors. A approach of this viewpoint; 'Any user
>  can be a potential contributor' and users is why we have a 'U' in the
>  name of FUDCon, else it would have just been 'FeDCon' and aimed at
>  Developers of Fedora. 
of course!

cu Joerg

-- 
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 07/01/2011 01:21 PM, Gerard Braad wrote:
>  Joerg, I do believe FUDCon is also to foster the community by
>  attracting new contributors. A approach of this viewpoint; 'Any user
>  can be a potential contributor' and users is why we have a 'U' in the
>  name of FUDCon, else it would have just been 'FeDCon' and aimed at
>  Developers of Fedora. 
I don't think anyone would disagree that part of FUDCon is to gather
interest from users and new contributors.  FUDCon even has carved out a
user track, apart from the Barcamp style of talks and hackfests
precisely for this purpose

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_user_track

However,  I would argue that this isn't the *primary goal* of FUDCon but
instead provide a forum for existing contributors to meet face to face,
interact in a more social fashion (as opposed to the mailing lists and
IRC which tend to give not much idea or often misleading impressions
about the personality of people which often is important) and get things
done. I think the agenda of previous FUDCon's provide ample evidence for
this.   Building a community from scratch in a new place is incredibly
hard.  Having worked on this for years and years in India, I have only
this year felt we have a active community of participants enough to put
up the proposal this year.  Last year,  we have began discussions after
the FAD we ran ( http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Pune_2010) but we had
nowhere near the level of interest and had to drop the idea
unfortunately.  

Now,  COEP which is the venue we are proposing for FUDCon in India has
hosted a mini Debconf before
(http://wiki.debian.org/DebianIndia/MiniDebConf2010) and they felt that
it was a developers for developers type of conference and that a similar
type of conference wouldn't be of much benefit for their students
because they are not veterans in the open source community.  To address
their concerns (assuming India is picked),  we are planning on doing a
few things:

*  Expand the user track and schedule some beginner level tracks so that
their students would benefit.   Since the FUDCon date begins on Friday, 
some of the classes will have to be cancelled and the administration
(the professors we talked to), felt that they would prefer this. 

* As a alternative or in addition to that,   do a FAD or two ahead of
FUDCon to prep the interested students on basics,  both in terms of
community process (to give them a broad idea) and specific technology
pieces (git, bugzilla, mailing lists,  basic packaging etc) so that they
have less chances of feeling lost and can be more productive

To expand on the point I was making in the last APAC meeting and has
been highlighted here (
https://hers0n.wordpress.com/2011/06/30/case-for-fudcon-india-2011/), 
if say, Malaysia or Philippines want to propose a FUDCon next year, 
they have to start establishing their community ( regional mailing
lists, forums, website,   irc channels, methodologically mentoring
people) and doing release events or FAD's now.  Initially, it can be, 
"what is new in Fedora 15" type talk to capture the attention of more
users and anything else that would build more enthusiasm from *users*.  
Once they have a stronger interest,  they can push more of those users
into participating and become contributors.  Picking up a location or
putting up a agenda for FUDCon should be next step after this and not
the first one.  Srilanka seems to be off to a decent start here with
their plans and people.

> From the bit of outsider perspective,  I think China has a lot of
potential and we have a few active contributors who could build a local
community incrementally by being mentors and offsetting the problems
like language barriers and a different type of culture.  I can see the
appeal of bringing in a international level of participation and jump
starting this process but in my experience,  organic growth is tedious
and relatively more slow but also more sustainable.  My impression is
that China could use a few more FAD's and build a bigger local community
first by leveraging the existing contributors and leaning more heavily
on Red Hat China and Community Architecture team to support such
activities   The barcamp style of FUDCon's are not that suitable for new
contributors in my understanding (read the FUDCon Toronto survey from
2009 for some evidence of this)  and also perhaps more importantly,
15000 dollars isn't going to be enough to bring more than a very limited
number of international participants (flight cost is a real killer) and
you have to factor in the cost of the rest of the conference (food for
participants,  goodies,  local travel,  fudpub etc).  Therefore unless
the local community is able to do a FUDCon without any dependence on
international participation,  one has to assume that the region needs
more growth before we can do one.  Of course,  this is all just my
opinion and people who decide the location or influence that decision
can also see what weight to attach to them.  

Rahul

[Gerard Braad]

Hi Rahul,

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 8:51 AM, Rahul Sundaram <metherid(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  My impression is
>  that China could use a few more FAD's and build a bigger local community
>  first by leveraging the existing contributors and leaning more heavily
>  on Red Hat China and Community Architecture team to support such
>  activities 
I think they have started to realize the options of hosting a FAD. At
least this FUDCon bidding has fueled a lot of opportunities, although
the involvement of Red Hat China has always been minimal until the
FUDCon. Hope this has changed in a permanent way.

>  15000 dollars isn't going to be enough to bring more than a very
> limited
>  number of international participants 
About the travel costs... yes... But I also wonder why this budget for
APAC is smaller than EMEA or NA for instance. The costs for travel to
APAC is generally more expensive, while service costs (food, hotel,
venue) is usually less. At least for China it is.

Gerard

-- 
Gerard Braad — 吉拉德
   Regional Mentor for APAC/China, Member of FAmSCo
   http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad

[Buddhike Kurera]

Hello Gerard,

How about the visa arrangements in China.
Are visa guidelines tough?
How many days will it take?

Please consider this with the APAC countries.

thanks for your time.

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Gerard Braad <gbraad(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;wrote:

>  Hi Rahul,
>
>  On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 8:51 AM, Rahul Sundaram <metherid(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > My impression is
>  > that China could use a few more FAD's and build a bigger local community
>  > first by leveraging the existing contributors and leaning more heavily
>  > on Red Hat China and Community Architecture team to support such
>  > activities
>
>  I think they have started to realize the options of hosting a FAD. At
>  least this FUDCon bidding has fueled a lot of opportunities, although
>  the involvement of Red Hat China has always been minimal until the
>  FUDCon. Hope this has changed in a permanent way.
>
>  > 15000 dollars isn't going to be enough to bring more than a very limited
>  > number of international participants
>
>  About the travel costs... yes... But I also wonder why this budget for
>  APAC is smaller than EMEA or NA for instance. The costs for travel to
>  APAC is generally more expensive, while service costs (food, hotel,
>  venue) is usually less. At least for China it is.
>
>  Gerard
>
>  --
>  Gerard Braad — 吉拉德
>     Regional Mentor for APAC/China, Member of FAmSCo
>     http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  


-- 
Regards,

*Buddhike Chandradeepa Kurera*

[Tiansworld]

On 07/02/2011 06:51 PM, Buddhika Kurera wrote:
>  Hello Gerard,
>
>  How about the visa arrangements in China.
>  Are visa guidelines tough?
>  How many days will it take?
>
>  Please consider this with the APAC countries.
>
>  thanks for your time. 
Hi Buddhika Kurera,
Please refer to the link below for the Chinese visa application[1].
I think Gerard can answer you more about visa application because he 
works and lives in China.

[1] http://www.gov.cn/english/2005-08/18/content_24285.htm

-- 
Regards,

Tiansworld
Fedora Project/Ambassador/Contributor

[Caius 'kaio' Chance]

Hi,

I had been reading this thread along, discussed with the China community on
mailing lists and during our weekly meetings. This is not surprised to see
the APAC countries with the most population are making the bid. It is no
doubt that which bid won to hold FUDCon, will benefit the community of such
country and surround regions.

Personally, even I am a member of Chinese community, I am hereby supporting
India for FUDCon 2011. China is just not ready for having a FUDCon this
year. These are the my reasons:


   1. Lack of local ambassadors - According to
   https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification ,
   there are only 6 (10 if Hong Kong FAms are included). Compare to 39 in
   India, it is approximately 5 times difference. This is just the head number
   only, please see point 2.

   2. Lack of FUDCon (even FAD) experience - India has done FUDCon in past
   and several FAD are happening throughout the year. And China just has her
   first FAD (at Guang Zhou) which went the reimbursement process with FAmSCo.
   As it can be shown from the quantity and quality of information in wiki
   pages of both bids, conservatively India has 2 times of preparation served
   for this event than China.

   3. Lack of supports from Red Hat - Red Hat China Office (Beijing) had not
   supported domestic Fedora activities for years. AFAIK, there had been no
   financial/swag/people supports ever from Beijing office for organizing
   community activities. Fedora Chinese User Group (FZUG) contacted RH China
   requested collaboration to boost the growth of Fedora community but cold or
   nil response received. Some of the FZUG members / FAms instead contacted
   directly to Community Architecture Team in RH US headquarter or Singapore
   office for assistance. Now when Beijing office heard about the bid of FUDCon
   2011 and becomes extremely excited to promote their "exposure" in open
   source community, eagerly offers hands. Remember, no FAD were supported by
   Beijing office ever except a couple of her staff attended a couple of
   meetups voluntary only in years.

Above reasons justify the great risk that FUDCon will be very likely failed
if it is held in China this year. In terms of the gap between India and
China in width and depth, the difficulty to make successful FUDCon 2011 in
China is 10+ times higher than in India. Assume the point 1 and 2 can be
coped at the end, I do doubt that RH China office can keep their interest in
growth of community after the event. An one off fragile event with no after
plan to sustain the heat, is a waste of annual FUDCon APAC chance. We want a
FUDCon for Fedora event, not a RH event.

My suggestions is let India do FUDCon 2011, and China's focus on this year:


   1. Recruits more ambassadors
   2. Raises technical levels of contributors/users/developers for talks
   3. Organizes FADs with media, swags, reimbursement processes
   4. Build up the link between community and RH China (w/ US, Singapore
   offices are just not enough!), but this involve participation from both
   sides
   5. Makes all above an iteration

Yes, China still need to compete among other bids in 2012, so it is
necessary to act right now. Good luck to India and China, will be glad to
the results and be proud of the transparency.

Regards,
kaio

-- 
Regards ☺ Caius 'kaio' Chance - Fedora Project Contributor http://
goo.gl/9WWWC
 <http://goo.gl/9WWWC>IRC: kaio @ freenode | Twitter/Weibo: @K410 | Blog:
kaio.net

[Truong Anh Tuan]

----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Caius 'kaio' Chance"
> <kaio(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
>  To: ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2011 12:28:45 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] FUDCon APAC bids
>  
>  Yes, China still need to compete among other bids in 2012, so it is
>  necessary to act right now. Good luck to India and China, will be
>  glad to the results 
+1 for everything. So clear.

>  and be proud of the transparency. 
On behalf of Fedora Ambassadors 'meeting' SIG in APAC (the ones who
are interested in attending the Fedora Ambassadors APAC biweekly
meeting :), I would like to express that we are also very proud of
having you in the group.

Kind regards, 
Tuan

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 07/02/2011 11:19 AM, Gerard Braad wrote:
>  I think they have started to realize the options of hosting a FAD. At
>  least this FUDCon bidding has fueled a lot of opportunities, although
>  the involvement of Red Hat China has always been minimal until the
>  FUDCon. Hope this has changed in a permanent way. 
I think the need for Red Hat China to be more involved has been
highlighted more than once and while I don't particular like competing
within the community via the bidding process,  if this results is better
participation and support,  it is a good thing.  I would note that just
having a Red Hat office nearby has never automatically resulted in
outpouring of support to community activities.   Some offices are large
enough and end up having someone or even a few more in the right
position to champion Fedora and other community activities but I know
several don't and you will have to rely on Comm Arch team to get things
moving.  If a particular Red Hat office has only sales but no
engineering, the chances are that it isn't setup to support a broader
community for instance. I understand local support is more ideal but we
can't always afford to wait for that. 

>  About the travel costs... yes... But I also wonder why this budget
> for
>  APAC is smaller than EMEA or NA for instance. The costs for travel to
>  APAC is generally more expensive, while service costs (food, hotel,
>  venue) is usually less. At least for China it is. 
I don't know the rationale behind it either.  I could speculate but it
is just better to ask in the events planning list

Rahul

[Max Spevack]

On Mon, 4 Jul 2011, Rahul Sundaram wrote:

> > About the travel costs... yes... But I also wonder why this
> budget 
> > for APAC is smaller than EMEA or NA for instance. The costs for 
> > travel to APAC is generally more expensive, while service costs 
> > (food, hotel, venue) is usually less. At least for China it is.
>
>  I don't know the rationale behind it either.  I could speculate but it 
>  is just better to ask in the events planning list 
There are a few reasons why the budget for the APAC and LATAM FUDCons is 
a bit lower than the NA and EMEA FUDCons.  Most of it has to do with the 
purchasing power of the USD around the world and the size of the FUDCon 
itself.

* NA and EMEA FUDCons have been happening longer, and tend to be larger 
events in terms of the number of people who attend.  This makes 
everything related to logistics cost a bit more.

* The EMEA FUDCons have a larger budget because the Euro is expenseive 
compared to the dollar.

* The NA FUDCon is always the largest one in terms of overall size, and 
it gets a bit more money.

* In all cases, if a FUDCon is being planned transparently and the 
budget needs are clear, if more budget is needed, we'll find that extra 
money.  $20k for NA and EMEA and $15k for LATAM and APAC is a relatively 
firm guideline, but not without flexibility.

--Max

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 07/04/2011 11:23 AM, Max Spevack wrote:
>  * The NA FUDCon is always the largest one in terms of overall size,
> and 
>  it gets a bit more money. 
I estimate India will certainly be in a comparable size to NA if not
larger but certain things are certainly cheaper in India

>  * In all cases, if a FUDCon is being planned transparently and the 
>  budget needs are clear, if more budget is needed, we'll find that extra 
>  money.  $20k for NA and EMEA and $15k for LATAM and APAC is a relatively 
>  firm guideline, but not without flexibility. 
Good to know.   I was concerned about this in the last FAmSCo meeting

http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-07-02/famsco.2011-07...

14:33:06 <jsmith> gbraad: I agree, but I'm not sure what there is to
discuss.  The budgets are fixed, and should not exceed the fixed amounts.
14:33:38 <gbraad> jsmith: APAC's economy has also grown a lot recently
and should be considere
14:34:06 <igorps> gbraad, do we have a estimate for all costs together?
14:34:41 <gbraad> jsmith: this is important to future events. our target
for this year is clear. 15K max without sponsoring
14:34:44 <jsmith> gbraad: Yes, I understand that.  We may re-evaluate
for next year, but for this year (Red Hat's fiscal year), the budgets
are set.

Rahul

[Joerg Simon]

Hi John,

On 06/29/2011 03:18 PM, inode0 wrote:
>  So issue #1 was largely that we didn't understand how to gather
> the
>  information necessary to plug numbers into the spreadsheet when not
>  understanding what each column was really intended to measure. 
+1

>  The other worry I have is that we don't get too mechanical in
> our
>  selection process. There are subjective and intangible elements to
>  FUDCon bids that are important and that are hard to attach meaningful
>  numbers to. But the combination of the spreadsheet (once we all
>  understand how to use it correctly) plus an attachment discussing the
>  other elements I believe could be a nice output from the process. 
This was my intention with my first mail - to learn what we already have
and making sense of it and improve/combine it if necessary! Maybe it got
lost in translation because of my limited english - sorry for that!
Once again, i think defining/considering the main scope of a FUDCon in
general - may help.

Lets see what others can contribute to it.

thanks John for the explanation!


cu JOerg
-- 
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

[Tian Shixiong]

Guys,

I will be disappointed if China lost this chance.
As you have mentioned that:
India has held FUDCON bedore
India has more contributors and ambassadors
India is getting things done,
India has a big computing population and interested in Fedora

I want to say some thing about China Fedora community,
1. China also has a big computing population and interested in Fedora
2. The active contributors and ambassadors may not as many as they are 
in India, but I want to use a simple L10n statistics to let you know 
about Chinese contributors:
    98% and 84% of Fedora 15 and websites translation completed, ranged 
at top 10 even top 5 among all L10n teams. L10n work before Fedora 15 
lovelock were also well done.
3. More and more users become to contributors
4. More and more local user group begin to hold Fedora events.(Although 
it's still in a low frequency and small scale, it's growing.) You may 
refer to the recent event here:[1]
5. India's bidding page has more details on budget and pre-registration, 
but this don't means China can not do better.

I can't speak out all of my feelings about this due to my limited 
English level. But I am trying my best to let you know, that China 
Fedora community, Chinese contributors are active with very high 
enthusiasm. They are eager to hold Fudcon in their country.

Thank you all.

[1] http://planet.fedoraproject.org/   search: The Log of Lovelock Event 
@ Canton

-- 
Regards,

Tiansworld
Fedora Project/Ambassador/Contributor/L10n zh_CN Coordinator

[Abdel Gadiel Martínez Lassonde]

I agree with my friend Alejandro.  Panama is now growing (a lot actually)
not only in Fedora Users but in Fedora Contributors, including translators,
packagers and designers.  I consider that FUDCon is an opportunity for
countries that have not settled a "big" Fedora community.  If the event is a
real success it can impact on the local community where the event is held.

Both places are great places to make a FUDCon, both have their advantages
and disadvantages so its difficult to select one of them.  But it is
important to recognize that the selected country should be able to embrace
the link of the local community even more.

Expecting comments.  See ya!

-- 
*Abdel G. Martínez L.
**Oracle Certified Associate, Java SE 5 and 6*
***Fedora Ambassador & Campus Ambassador*
*Fedora Developer & Packager*

*Celular:
**6125-1563

**Correo Electrónico:
*
*abdel.g.martinez.l(a)gmail.com* <abdel.g.martinez.l(a)gmail.com&gt;

[Fedora Ambassador Membership Administration]

>  Fedora Contributors. Not sure as what is the goal of a FUDcon but
> his
>  name mention Users and Contributors, in Panama we mix Contributors
>  bringing them from outsite with users and now we have more locals as
>  contributor. So to me FUDcon is also a way to identify local talent and
>  encourage them to become contributors.
>  As many have said it is a thought call to decide witch one should be the
>  host, and India can be a good place to bring more people together and
>  work on Fedora. China can be a great place to show how to become
>  contributors and empower that local community as happens on Panama.
>
>  As I have no other experience on FUDcon my opinion can have a very small
>  perspective. 

As you pointed, there are two aspects of a FUDCon, one is to get new
contributors.

The other one, more importantly, is to provide a platform for existing
contributors to get together, exchange ideas, get things "done" and
come up with future plans.


-- 
Regards,
Susmit.

=============================================
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit
=============================================

[Neville A. Cross]

On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 17:21 +0200, Joerg Simon wrote:

>  A FUDCon in India would be a "Getting Things Done" Event -
> because there
>  is a strong core community and long time contributors with already a lot
>  interesting sessions
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:India_2011#Sessions
>   
I strongly agreed with the idea of "getting things done" ... I would
support India bid because of this. As John/inode0 said in a previous
email, let's hope that China submit again next year and wins.

Best regards


-- 
Neville
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v
Linux User # 473217

[Truong Anh Tuan]

----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Neville A. Cross" <neville(a)taygon.com&gt;
>  To: ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:17:44 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] FUDCon APAC bids
>  
>  On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 17:21 +0200, Joerg Simon wrote:
>  
>  > A FUDCon in India would be a "Getting Things Done" Event - because there
>  > is a strong core community and long time contributors with already a lot
>  > interesting sessions
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:India_2011#Sessions
>  > 
>  
>  I strongly agreed with the idea of "getting things done" ... I would
>  support India bid because of this. As John/inode0 said in a previous
>  email, let's hope that China submit again next year and wins. 
One more +1. I hope so too.

Kind regards, 
Tuan