During the yesterdays EMEA Ambassadors Meeting there was the request to open up the trac instance:
20:20:58 <cwickert> one point where communication is really broken is
FAMSCO's trac instance not being public for ambassadors
20:21:23 <cwickert> I mean, we get the FAMSCO meeting logs and the links to
trac, but we cannot read the tickets
20:21:29 * inode0 agrees with that 20:21:36 <cwickert> this is a bad joke, not even FESCOs trac is hidden 20:24:00 <kital> cwickert: fesco has not to deal with money and sentiments
along with money
20:25:22 <GeroldKa> afaik is "money" always a open point to everyone
we need a place where we can deal with money details, like paypal, bank account data, scans of receipts, personal private things like shipping adresses and times
thanks to Susmit and David for pointing that out! http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/famsco/2010-January/000036.html http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/famsco/2010-January/000037.html
cu Joerg
Am Donnerstag, den 28.01.2010, 07:20 +0100 schrieb Joerg Simon:
During the yesterdays EMEA Ambassadors Meeting there was the request to open up the trac instance:
20:20:58 <cwickert> one point where communication is really broken is
FAMSCO's trac instance not being public for ambassadors
20:21:23 <cwickert> I mean, we get the FAMSCO meeting logs and the links to
trac, but we cannot read the tickets
20:21:29 * inode0 agrees with that 20:21:36 <cwickert> this is a bad joke, not even FESCOs trac is hidden 20:24:00 <kital> cwickert: fesco has not to deal with money and sentiments
along with money
20:25:22 <GeroldKa> afaik is "money" always a open point to everyone
we need a place where we can deal with money details, like paypal, bank account data, scans of receipts, personal private things like shipping adresses and times
Let's go through this list one by one: * Money details: As GeroldKa already pointed out, budget details are open to all ambassadors. * Paypal: Given the fact that the name of a PayPal account is no critical information and that PayPal is often used for donating money, I don't think this is really confidential. * Bank account data is confidential for sure, and IMO this doesn't belong into trac at all. * Scans of receipts: Without knowing details I cannot judge if this is really private information. I guess this * Shipping addresses and times: Addresses are private, but IMO times are not.
So IMO the information is not private, or it is so confidential that it shouldn't even be in trac. Confidential information can still be exchanged via email, FAMSCO is only a small number of people.
Last but not least: How many tickets are affected? I guess it is very a small percentage and the large majority is info that concerns all ambassadors.
Regards, Christoph
On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 16:10, Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert@googlemail.com wrote:
Am Donnerstag, den 28.01.2010, 07:20 +0100 schrieb Joerg Simon:
During the yesterdays EMEA Ambassadors Meeting there was the request to open up the trac instance:
20:20:58 <cwickert> one point where communication is really broken is
FAMSCO's trac instance not being public for ambassadors
20:21:23 <cwickert> I mean, we get the FAMSCO meeting logs and the links to
trac, but we cannot read the tickets
20:21:29 * inode0 agrees with that 20:21:36 <cwickert> this is a bad joke, not even FESCOs trac is hidden 20:24:00 <kital> cwickert: fesco has not to deal with money and sentiments
along with money
Regarding that, I think most bad feelings about the way money is spent often come from a lack of openness. If you don't know what's happening, you can only imagine the worst.
We already know that the budget is distributed in a way that is as fair and transparent as possible, Max always makes public reports of how much money is given to a particular region or event (which is great, really).
Given that, like Gerold and Christoph, I also think that there can't be any issue with money.
20:25:22 <GeroldKa> afaik is "money" always a open point to everyone
we need a place where we can deal with money details, like paypal, bank account data, scans of receipts, personal private things like shipping adresses and times
Let's go through this list one by one: * Money details: As GeroldKa already pointed out, budget details are open to all ambassadors. * Paypal: Given the fact that the name of a PayPal account is no critical information and that PayPal is often used for donating money, I don't think this is really confidential. * Bank account data is confidential for sure, and IMO this doesn't belong into trac at all.
Bank account is not necessarily private, at least not here. I could give you my RIB (the official document from my bank on which my bank account is written), you wouldn't be able to do anything with it without my consent (at least that's how it works in France).
* Scans of receipts: Without knowing details I cannot judge if this is really private information. I guess this * Shipping addresses and times: Addresses are private, but IMO times are not.
So IMO the information is not private, or it is so confidential that it shouldn't even be in trac. Confidential information can still be exchanged via email, FAMSCO is only a small number of people.
In your list, the only information that I think is private are the personal shipping address. But to me, the reason why it should not appear in Trac is that it can change, especially for younger people who tend to move a lot (going to university, then moving to another city for a job, then changing appartment when they start earning a little more money,...). So even if you let aside the privacy concerns, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to be archiving it in Trac.
Last but not least: How many tickets are affected? I guess it is very a small percentage and the large majority is info that concerns all ambassadors.
The problem is that if you want to open it now, you'd have to read *all* tickets to see if there are some personal data that need to be removed. So you can't count the number of tickets affected, you have to count the total number of tickets.
Anyway, consider that as a huge +1 for opening the FAmSCo Trac. Having the links to tickets in reports but being unable to read them is frustrating, especially if you're directly concerned by the ticket. And think about it as a way for us of the plebs to get to know better what FAmSCo is doing :)
Best regards,
---------- Mathieu Bridon
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010, Mathieu Bridon wrote:
So IMO the information is not private, or it is so confidential that it shouldn't even be in trac. Confidential information can still be exchanged via email, FAMSCO is only a small number of people.
In your list, the only information that I think is private are the personal shipping address. But to me, the reason why it should not appear in Trac is that it can change, especially for younger people who tend to move a lot (going to university, then moving to another city for a job, then changing appartment when they start earning a little more money,...). So even if you let aside the privacy concerns, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to be archiving it in Trac.
Last but not least: How many tickets are affected? I guess it is very a small percentage and the large majority is info that concerns all ambassadors.
The problem is that if you want to open it now, you'd have to read *all* tickets to see if there are some personal data that need to be removed. So you can't count the number of tickets affected, you have to count the total number of tickets.
Anyway, consider that as a huge +1 for opening the FAmSCo Trac. Having the links to tickets in reports but being unable to read them is frustrating, especially if you're directly concerned by the ticket. And think about it as a way for us of the plebs to get to know better what FAmSCo is doing :)
Honestly, I think that we can open the FAMSCO trac instance up. I was worried about confidential information when we first set it up, but I think time has shown that it isn't really an issue.
/me adds a vote on this to the agenda for the next FAMSCO meeting.
--Max
On 29/01/10 15:56, Max Spevack wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010, Mathieu Bridon wrote:
So IMO the information is not private, or it is so confidential that it shouldn't even be in trac. Confidential information can still be exchanged via email, FAMSCO is only a small number of people.
In your list, the only information that I think is private are the personal shipping address. But to me, the reason why it should not appear in Trac is that it can change, especially for younger people who tend to move a lot (going to university, then moving to another city for a job, then changing appartment when they start earning a little more money,...). So even if you let aside the privacy concerns, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to be archiving it in Trac.
Last but not least: How many tickets are affected? I guess it is very a small percentage and the large majority is info that concerns all ambassadors.
The problem is that if you want to open it now, you'd have to read *all* tickets to see if there are some personal data that need to be removed. So you can't count the number of tickets affected, you have to count the total number of tickets.
Anyway, consider that as a huge +1 for opening the FAmSCo Trac. Having the links to tickets in reports but being unable to read them is frustrating, especially if you're directly concerned by the ticket. And think about it as a way for us of the plebs to get to know better what FAmSCo is doing :)
Honestly, I think that we can open the FAMSCO trac instance up. I was worried about confidential information when we first set it up, but I think time has shown that it isn't really an issue.
/me adds a vote on this to the agenda for the next FAMSCO meeting.
--Max
ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
Just make an email address for the people that deal with funds, so that receipt that contains credit card numbers etc.. are not displayed in the public. Of course bank details and even paypal info should not be displayed either. Some people might also not like their name and address being displayed, for those people that are blessed with a more generic name. But opening the trac up sounds like a good idea, as it shows procedures and provides openness, i.e. by showing maybe what people spent on what, and what it was used for with links to pictures maybe, which helps the funds people to make a decision on reimbursement, but also shows others what can be done, and might give them ideas.
Regards, Tristan
On Friday 29 January 2010 16:10:45 Christoph Wickert wrote:
20:21:36 <cwickert> this is a bad joke, not even FESCOs trac is hidden
therefore FESCO has a closed archive for the fesco-mailing-list
but this is not the point - as Max pointed out, we will have a vote on this on Monday's famsco meeting and you can read the pro and contra arguments on the famsco mailing list
cu Joerg
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org