[EMEA] Talks for FOSDEM 2011

[Pierros Papadeas]

Hi all!

Our next big event in EMEA is FOSDEM 2011 :)
As you have seen on this list we are already organizing our presence
[1]. (Add yourself if you are coming!)

Please note that we need to step up and register some talks on the
Distribution MiniConf (a Conference on Distributions within FOSDEM).
We are 20 fedorians already coming to FOSDEM and I am sure we have a
lot to share with other communities (community, technical etc)

In order to participate in the discussion please join the dist2011
mailing list to state your talk proposal or reply here and I can relay
that :)
Also note that we need to keep our wiki updated for that [3] and that
you can have a talk in the Main Track (Our FPL will!) or a lighting
talk!

~π

ps. for questions please reply here or ping biertie (our event owner)
or me on IRC

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FOSDEM_2011
[2] http://lists.fosdem.org/mailman/listinfo/dist2011
[3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FOSDEM_2011_Talk_Propositions
-- 
Pierros Papadeas
PGP key: 0x6130DBF8
http://pierros.papadeas.gr
pierros(a)papadeas.gr
liknus @ GRnet , Freenode

[Bert Desmet]

I'm sorry to interupt this,
but our FPL is not approved in the main track :(
#sad face

but!
agreed, more people should subscribe on the distro miniconf (or other
mailing lists) and propose a talk.
I do think that the deadline will be extended though, since not a lot
of talks have been submitted yet. but don't put your hope on that ;)

IF you want to give a talk, check out this page for all the details:
http://fosdem.org/2011/call_for_participation

hope to see you all there in February!
and thank you Pierros for the mail ;-)

cheers,
Bert

2010/12/17 Pierros Papadeas <ppapadeas(a)gmail.com&gt;:
>  Hi all!
>
>  Our next big event in EMEA is FOSDEM 2011 :)
>  As you have seen on this list we are already organizing our presence
>  [1]. (Add yourself if you are coming!)
>
>  Please note that we need to step up and register some talks on the
>  Distribution MiniConf (a Conference on Distributions within FOSDEM).
>  We are 20 fedorians already coming to FOSDEM and I am sure we have a
>  lot to share with other communities (community, technical etc)
>
>  In order to participate in the discussion please join the dist2011
>  mailing list to state your talk proposal or reply here and I can relay
>  that :)
>  Also note that we need to keep our wiki updated for that [3] and that
>  you can have a talk in the Main Track (Our FPL will!) or a lighting
>  talk!
>
>  ~π
>
>  ps. for questions please reply here or ping biertie (our event owner)
>  or me on IRC
>
>  [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FOSDEM_2011
>  [2] http://lists.fosdem.org/mailman/listinfo/dist2011
>  [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FOSDEM_2011_Talk_Propositions
>  --
>  Pierros Papadeas
>  PGP key: 0x6130DBF8
>  http://pierros.papadeas.gr
>  pierros(a)papadeas.gr
>  liknus @ GRnet , Freenode
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors 


-- 
Bert Desmet
0477/305361

[Max Spevack]

On Fri, 17 Dec 2010, Pierros Papadeas wrote:

>  [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FOSDEM_2011_Talk_Propositions
The simple truth is that as of right now, we have very few Fedora talks 
being proposed at FOSDEM.

We've got over 20 people signed up to attend FOSDEM as part of Fedora's 
group, but only two who have indicated on the wiki page that they 
submitted talks -- Jared and Lennart.

There are a ton of categories where Fedora-related talks could be given:

Perl
Open Source Telephony
Virtualization
Free Java
Crossdesktop

Is there anyone attending FOSDEM who would like to submit a talk that 
fits into one of these categories, and that can be (in part) about 
Fedora?

I'm willing to help anyone who wants to give a talk put one together, if 
they need advice on how to structure a talk, what points to make, etc.

--Max

[Bertrand Juglas]

2010/12/17 Max Spevack <mspevack(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  On Fri, 17 Dec 2010, Pierros Papadeas wrote:
>
> > [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FOSDEM_2011_Talk_Propositions
>
>  The simple truth is that as of right now, we have very few Fedora talks
>  being proposed at FOSDEM.
>
>  We've got over 20 people signed up to attend FOSDEM as part of Fedora's
>  group, but only two who have indicated on the wiki page that they
>  submitted talks -- Jared and Lennart.
>
>  There are a ton of categories where Fedora-related talks could be given:
>
>  Perl
>  Open Source Telephony
>  Virtualization
>  Free Java
>  Crossdesktop
>
>  Is there anyone attending FOSDEM who would like to submit a talk that
>  fits into one of these categories, and that can be (in part) about
>  Fedora?
>
>  I'm willing to help anyone who wants to give a talk put one together, if
>  they need advice on how to structure a talk, what points to make, etc. 
Hello,
I'm trying to setup a Fedora 14 server for OS-level virtualization
using LXC but i've not found yet many docs about it and it's not so
easy to configure to make it work great.
I've already use older Fedora to setup KVM as platform virtualization
to avoid Windows using physically all the machine.
So i would be interested to talk about my Virtualization experience on
Fedora, but i've never done talks before so that's why i've not
submited any talk because i feel it would be too difficult for me
alone to prepare such a talk.
But i was amazed about Max's talk during RMLL 2009, he has replied my
many questions about virtualization and netbook too.
His presentation of Fedora Project motivated me to become a Fedora
Ambassador as I am now :)
So if Max agree to help me put together a talk about Fedora
virtualization features, i would be glad to submit it and do it if
selected.
Now, i'm waiting for Max answer.
Thank you for your attention.

[Max Spevack]

On Fri, 17 Dec 2010, Bertrand Juglas wrote:

>  So if Max agree to help me put together a talk about Fedora 
>  virtualization features, i would be glad to submit it and do it if 
>  selected. 
Sure!

Do you think you would prefer to submit it as a Lightning Talk or as 
part of the Virt devroom?

http://fosdem.org/2011/call_for_lightningtalks

http://nciv2011.v2.cs.unibo.it/doku.php

The content of the talk depends on which choice you make, I think.

For a 15 minute Lightning Talk, I'd probably want to do a demonstration 
of something Really Cool related to virt & Fedora 15.  Maybe it's a 
simple thing that most people don't know how to do -- which is "here's 
how to get a virtual machine running on your Fedora laptop in less than 
15 minutes"

For the virt devroom, I think that we need to talk to some of the other 
virt and cloud folks within Fedora and get their help to put together 
something larger and more technical.

--Max

[Bertrand Juglas]

2010/12/18 Max Spevack <mspevack(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  On Fri, 17 Dec 2010, Bertrand Juglas wrote:
>
> > So if Max agree to help me put together a talk about Fedora virtualization
> > features, i would be glad to submit it and do it if selected.
>
>  Sure!
>
>  Do you think you would prefer to submit it as a Lightning Talk or as part of
>  the Virt devroom?
>
>  http://fosdem.org/2011/call_for_lightningtalks
>
>  http://nciv2011.v2.cs.unibo.it/doku.php
>
>  The content of the talk depends on which choice you make, I think.
>
>  For a 15 minute Lightning Talk, I'd probably want to do a demonstration of
>  something Really Cool related to virt & Fedora 15.  Maybe it's a simple
>  thing that most people don't know how to do -- which is "here's how to get
> a
>  virtual machine running on your Fedora laptop in less than 15 minutes"
>  
I feel more comfortable for a Lightning Talk because it would be my
first public talk in english. And i prefer demo than slides so let's
continue on the Lightning Talk idea.
I will update my Fedora 14 host server to Fedora 15 so i can already
test virt features of Fedora 15. And i plan to demo on my laptop
running Fedora 14 a Fedora 15 KVM guest running LXC containers to show
it's possible because of the different levels of virtualization. And
also to show how KVM can be used to run a newer version of Fedora
inside an older one.
It should be long enough for 15 minutes, do you agree ?
So i've enough elements to submit my talk request on
http://fosdem.org/2011/call_for_lightningtalks before the end of
sunday.
Thank you for your help.

[Bertrand Juglas]

2010/12/18 Max Spevack <mspevack(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  Do you think you would prefer to submit it as a Lightning Talk or as
> part of
>  the Virt devroom?
>
>  http://fosdem.org/2011/call_for_lightningtalks
>
>  For a 15 minute Lightning Talk, I'd probably want to do a demonstration of
>  something Really Cool related to virt & Fedora 15.  Maybe it's a simple
>  thing that most people don't know how to do -- which is "here's how to get
> a
>  virtual machine running on your Fedora laptop in less than 15 minutes" 
Here is
what I've submitted as a Lightning Talk about Fedora's
virtualization and isolation solutions :

talk title:
how to get a virtual machine running on your Fedora laptop

talk description:
I want to do a demonstration of something Really Cool related to virt
& Fedora 15.
It's a simple thing that most people don't know how to do -- which is
"here's how to get a virtual machine running on your Fedora laptop in
less than 15 minutes"
After virtual machine which is very easy to setup and use, showing LXC
as a lighter isolation solution should interest people wanting to
replace their chroots by more secured and isolated solutions.

I've well seen the web page confirming my submission was well received.
So now i just have to continue preparing the demos while waiting for
the FOSDEM's decision on 2010-12-27 for Acceptance notification of
lightning talks.
And if my submission is not accepted, i will proposed it to "First
Saturday" french monthly Fedora event.
Thank you for your support because alone i wouldn't have submitted this talk.

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[Neville A. Cross]

I feel I am in a difficult situation right now. One Microsoft
representative in Nicaragua has started an approach to the free software
community at large in Nicaragua. He is offering sponsorship for
freesoftware activities like events.

As a summary, he is willingly to invest small amounts on events without
any logo or promotion if the community talks about interoperability.
Bigger support will requiere banners and logos.

I have seen those in big events for freesoftware. Like in pycon,
Microsoft has a banner and the logo was included on the schedule book,
but there was no booth neither talks. I have never see such thing in a
Fedora event.

I think that if the community at large (which includes a few distros,
and other free software groups like drupal) agrees with that, then it
will be going with the majority. For instance, if the community
celebrates Software Fredom Day, it is a big event in which fedora in
Nicaragua contributes. If the event has sponsorship, that does not goes
directly to one group endorsing all sponsors. I am tricking my self?

I think it is not needed for fedora events. Talking about any other
stuff that is not fedora or freedom is out of place. We tend not to
even mention others distros, because we have a topic. Do I am being to
narrow minded? I think that resources is besides the point as Fedora
backs up Fedora activities. Or do I should try to use their money and
save Fedora money for other things?

I have wrote an email to the Fedora Nicaraguan community in the local
mailing list to get feed back. But I would also like to have proper
guidance from Fedora Project in this issue. I do not recall, in all the
time that I have been part of this mailing list, seen something like
this before. So that's why I ask.

Best regards


-- 
Neville
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v
Linux User # 473217

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[Mathieu Bridon]

On Thu, 2011-03-17 at 23:40 -0600, Neville A. Cross wrote:
>  As a summary, he is willingly to invest small amounts on events
> without
>  any logo or promotion if the community talks about interoperability. 
Interoperability is one of the most fundamental values of Free Software
believers, it's great that Microsoft representatives are showing some
support.

>  Bigger support will requiere banners and logos.
>  
>  I have seen those in big events for freesoftware. Like in pycon,
>  Microsoft has a banner and the logo was included on the schedule book,
>  but there was no booth neither talks. I have never see such thing in a
>  Fedora event.
>  
>  I think that if the community at large (which includes a few distros,
>  and other free software groups like drupal) agrees with that, then it
>  will be going with the majority. For instance, if the community
>  celebrates Software Fredom Day, it is a big event in which fedora in
>  Nicaragua contributes. If the event has sponsorship, that does not goes
>  directly to one group endorsing all sponsors. I am tricking my self?
>  
>  I think it is not needed for fedora events. Talking about any other
>  stuff that is not fedora or freedom is out of place. 
Free Software (and thus Freedom) exists on Windows as well. Presenting
cross-OS  applications like Firefox, Gimp, Pidgin or LibreOffice will
often be the first step for lots of people to understand software
freedom and potentially make a full move to a Free OS later.

That can't be a bad thing.

>  We tend not to
>  even mention others distros, because we have a topic. 
I mention other distros all the time at Fedora events. We even invite
people from other distros (mainly Ubuntu and Mandriva/Mageia) to the
events we organize in France.

As long as everyone understands that we don't compete and that we have
better things to do than trolling at each other, there isn't any problem
with that in my opinion.

>  Do I am being to
>  narrow minded? I think that resources is besides the point as Fedora
>  backs up Fedora activities. Or do I should try to use their money and
>  save Fedora money for other things? 
Why not? The money you won't take from the Fedora budget can be used to
fund other events, hackfests, FADs, marketing materials, etc.

As long as they don't require you to do anything inappropriate or
contrary to your values, I don't see any reason why you should refuse
*any* help for organizing a better event.

That goes for any corporate funding as far as I'm concerned.

For example, I would refuse a funding from Red Hat/Fedora if they
prevented me from voluntarily helping someone who has trouble with his
server and instead sending him to the Red Hat paid support. That has
never happened though, and I don't think it's very likely. :)


-- 
Mathieu

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[Nicu Buculei]

On 03/18/2011 07:40 AM, Neville A. Cross wrote:
>  I feel I am in a difficult situation right now. One Microsoft
>  representative in Nicaragua has started an approach to the free software
>  community at large in Nicaragua. He is offering sponsorship for
>  freesoftware activities like events.
>
>  As a summary, he is willingly to invest small amounts on events without
>  any logo or promotion if the community talks about interoperability.
>  Bigger support will requiere banners and logos. 
This is a tactic employed by Microsoft for quite a while, they are 
buying credibility. If some years ago it was unimaginable, now their 
presence as many FOSS events is seen as "normal", they managed to 
position themselves from "the competitor" as "a partner".

I have no idea if this is also a goal of their tactic, but no matter 
what your decision is, expect your community to be divided, the 
"idealist" would feel the ideals of Free Software were betrayed and will 
complain about the mixed message, the "pragmatics" will be happy about 
money and the possibilities they enable.

>  I think that if the community at large (which includes a few
> distros,
>  and other free software groups like drupal) agrees with that, then it
>  will be going with the majority. For instance, if the community
>  celebrates Software Fredom Day, it is a big event in which fedora in
>  Nicaragua contributes. If the event has sponsorship, that does not goes
>  directly to one group endorsing all sponsors. I am tricking my self? 
You have direct control over the events you organize, if you are invited 
at an event where Microsoft is a sponsor, you have to choose the lesser 
evil: endorse Microsoft with your presence or skip it and make Fedora's 
voice unheard. My choice is to keep the balance and be there (but I 
won't involve Fedora's money if Microsoft already paid something), while 
I see some merits in the opposite approach too.

>  I think it is not needed for fedora events. Talking about any other
>  stuff that is not fedora or freedom is out of place. We tend not to
>  even mention others distros, because we have a topic. Do I am being to
>  narrow minded? I think that resources is besides the point as Fedora
>  backs up Fedora activities. Or do I should try to use their money and
>  save Fedora money for other things? 
In the Romanian community we agreed we don't need and don't want money 
from any entity not sincerely involved in FOSS. But we have a healthy 
collaboration with local communities from other distros: invite them to 
our release parties, go to theirs, organize events together, work on 
common projects... the FOSS way.

-- 
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[Buddhike Kurera]

Hello,

I think for event organizers this is a tricky problem to deal with.

But simply following decisions can be taken by analyzing the situation.

We organize an event to promote Free Software, so no matter we promote
fedora, openSUSE or any other. As long as we promote the word free and
related products the objective seems fulfilled.

Then Microsoft came to the scene. They can offer two sides.
1) spend some money as a CSR
2) spend and promote their brand.

The 1st one is ok as long as there is no brand promotion or any promotion
for Microsoft but in 2nd we cannot agree with their expectation because
promoting Free Software and Promoting Closed-Limited Software are two ends.

Therefore if we can get their support with no brand promotion I think there
is no problem of taking the chance but if they want to shows their brand in
Free Software event i think its not good.

Rejecting funds because microsoft is providing is not a good ground. AS long
as they help us to promote Free Software with no expectations would
be reasonable.


>  > I feel I am in a difficult situation right now. One Microsoft
>  > representative in Nicaragua has started an approach to the free software
>  > community at large in Nicaragua. He is offering sponsorship for
>  > freesoftware activities like events.
>  >
>  > As a summary, he is willingly to invest small amounts on events without
>  > any logo or promotion if the community talks about interoperability.
>  > Bigger support will requiere banners and logos.
>
>  This is a tactic employed by Microsoft for quite a while, they are
>  buying credibility. If some years ago it was unimaginable, now their
>  presence as many FOSS events is seen as "normal", they managed to
>  position themselves from "the competitor" as "a partner".
>
>  I have no idea if this is also a goal of their tactic, but no matter
>  what your decision is, expect your community to be divided, the
>  "idealist" would feel the ideals of Free Software were betrayed and will
>  complain about the mixed message, the "pragmatics" will be happy about
>  money and the possibilities they enable.
>
>  > I think that if the community at large (which includes a few distros,
>  > and other free software groups like drupal) agrees with that, then it
>  > will be going with the majority. For instance, if the community
>  > celebrates Software Fredom Day, it is a big event in which fedora in
>  > Nicaragua contributes. If the event has sponsorship, that does not goes
>  > directly to one group endorsing all sponsors. I am tricking my self?
>
>  You have direct control over the events you organize, if you are invited
>  at an event where Microsoft is a sponsor, you have to choose the lesser
>  evil: endorse Microsoft with your presence or skip it and make Fedora's
>  voice unheard. My choice is to keep the balance and be there (but I
>  won't involve Fedora's money if Microsoft already paid something), while
>  I see some merits in the opposite approach too.
>
>  > I think it is not needed for fedora events. Talking about any other
>  > stuff that is not fedora or freedom is out of place. We tend not to
>  > even mention others distros, because we have a topic. Do I am being to
>  > narrow minded? I think that resources is besides the point as Fedora
>  > backs up Fedora activities. Or do I should try to use their money and
>  > save Fedora money for other things?
>
>  In the Romanian community we agreed we don't need and don't want money
>  from any entity not sincerely involved in FOSS. But we have a healthy
>  collaboration with local communities from other distros: invite them to
>  our release parties, go to theirs, organize events together, work on
>  common projects... the FOSS way.
>
>  --
>  nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
>  photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  


-- 
Regards,

*Buddhike Chandradeepa Kurera*
The Editor in Chief - FOSS User Magazine
Fedora Ambassador - Sri Lanka

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[Acid Core]

Hello,

I totally agree with Buddhika Kurera.
If they can fund without expectation then that would be ok.
If they want us somehow to promote them or even
mentioning the company name would be a total taboo.

Regards,
IFo

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[Neville A. Cross]

On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 09:11 +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote:
<skip>
>  I have no idea if this is also a goal of their tactic, but no matter
>
>  what your decision is, expect your community to be divided, the 
>  "idealist" would feel the ideals of Free Software were betrayed and will 
>  complain about the mixed message, the "pragmatics" will be happy about 
>  money and the possibilities they enable. 
<skip>

I am also expecting that the decision will fragment our community. We
have been working together among a few distros, we gave each other space
in the spot light when there is a launch party, we all help but we let
the distro having the release had the show for themselves. We will have
their support in the same way for our release. We work together for big
events like FLISOL and SFD. I will be very sad that some one came along
a poison this integration.



-- 
Neville
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v
Linux User # 473217

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[Tristan Santore]

To be honest, if they do take some of their billions and financially
support FOSS projects, mainly to make them work on more than just linux,
then good, about time they used their money for some good.

But I suspect there are ulterior motives in this approach:

1. They are cutting their own costs by not having to use their own
testing people, as I know they have labs where they check
interoperability between windows and Linux services.

2. They figured Apple is looking quite evil now in the eyes of the FOSS
community, in terms of behaviour and openness, so they are trying to
make themselves look more favourable.

3. They are trying to grab off some Linux users, by making the same
standard applications work on windows, which basically means they are
scared. (which will work in the GNU Linux Operating system becoming more
"accessible" to people, as they will say, well, I already use most of
the same applications, I may as well save money, be more secure, and
efficient, and use a Linux based operating system).

4. The main reason why they are there, is to show presence, as many
business service providers are now actively seeking cost cutting
measures, which makes them more profitable, and Linux is an attractive
way to do this. (great for the FOSS community too).

So all in all, as far as I am concerned, they can do whatever they like,
as long as they do not make people sign stupid legal agreements to
prevent them from doing what they want with their FOSS
product/developments. If Amarok got 100k in support, for instance, I
could not care less, if it makes Amarok even better. You may replace
Amarok with any other application of your choice in that example.

I would not be too concerned, after all, there is a reason why people
like FOSS, especially hackers, as they can just code and do not have to
worry about libraries and licenses and god knows what else. You just
want to have fun with software/code.
And as a user, typing in serials, and clicking agreement buttons, yuck,
no thanks.

Regards,
Tristan

-- 
Tristan Santore BSc MBCS
TS4523-RIPE
Network and Infrastructure Operations
InterNexusConnect
Mobile [phone]
Tristan.Santore(a)internexusconnect.net

Former Thawte Notary
(Please note: Thawte has closed its WoT programme down,
and I am therefore no longer able to accredit trust)

For Fedora related issues, please email me at:
TSantore(a)fedoraproject.org

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[Gregory Fenton]

1) It's Microsoft, champion of all things Microsoft to the detriment of
everything else.
2) Financial support is financial support.  If it helps one more person make
the jump from closed to open source software then it is an achieved goal.

I tend to look beyond the immediacy of any issue and ask myself if x does y
what would the desired result be.

If Microsoft funds fedora projects they can achieve a major win almost
immediately:
"Why bother installing fedora when most of the software that works on fedora
also works out of the box on Windows? Even their own ambassadors are
changing their events to discuss the interoperability between their software
and Windows.  Why bother with installing a new OS when you can have good old
tried and trusted Windows running not only all the freeware software out
there but also all the windows apps that linux simply can't handle?"

Who wants a fedora hat with a fedora logo on one side and a "sponsored by
Microsoft (windows logo)" on the other side of it?

Unless Microsoft is willing to simply hand over the funds to support fedora
with no strings attached apart from declaring where the money has been spent
I would say "fedora is doing perfectly fine without your support, thank you
very much."

On 18 March 2011 10:17, Tristan Santore <
tristan.santore(a)internexusconnect.net&gt; wrote:

>  To be honest, if they do take some of their billions and financially
>  support FOSS projects, mainly to make them work on more than just linux,
>  then good, about time they used their money for some good.
>
>  But I suspect there are ulterior motives in this approach:
>
>  1. They are cutting their own costs by not having to use their own
>  testing people, as I know they have labs where they check
>  interoperability between windows and Linux services.
>
>  2. They figured Apple is looking quite evil now in the eyes of the FOSS
>  community, in terms of behaviour and openness, so they are trying to
>  make themselves look more favourable.
>
>  3. They are trying to grab off some Linux users, by making the same
>  standard applications work on windows, which basically means they are
>  scared. (which will work in the GNU Linux Operating system becoming more
>  "accessible" to people, as they will say, well, I already use most of
>  the same applications, I may as well save money, be more secure, and
>  efficient, and use a Linux based operating system).
>
>  4. The main reason why they are there, is to show presence, as many
>  business service providers are now actively seeking cost cutting
>  measures, which makes them more profitable, and Linux is an attractive
>  way to do this. (great for the FOSS community too).
>
>  So all in all, as far as I am concerned, they can do whatever they like,
>  as long as they do not make people sign stupid legal agreements to
>  prevent them from doing what they want with their FOSS
>  product/developments. If Amarok got 100k in support, for instance, I
>  could not care less, if it makes Amarok even better. You may replace
>  Amarok with any other application of your choice in that example.
>
>  I would not be too concerned, after all, there is a reason why people
>  like FOSS, especially hackers, as they can just code and do not have to
>  worry about libraries and licenses and god knows what else. You just
>  want to have fun with software/code.
>  And as a user, typing in serials, and clicking agreement buttons, yuck,
>  no thanks.
>
>  Regards,
>  Tristan
>
>  --
>  Tristan Santore BSc MBCS
>  TS4523-RIPE
>  Network and Infrastructure Operations
>  InterNexusConnect
>  Mobile [phone]
>  Tristan.Santore(a)internexusconnect.net
>
>  Former Thawte Notary
>  (Please note: Thawte has closed its WoT programme down,
>  and I am therefore no longer able to accredit trust)
>
>  For Fedora related issues, please email me at:
>  TSantore(a)fedoraproject.org
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[José Edgardo López Vásquez]

Dear Neville, let me tell you that the last year in San Salvador,for the
same event, in the Salvadorean Comunity we accept to have some microsoft
present in the (flisol) after discuss in the Salvadorean Comunity but we
never accept money.

The agrement was that:

- 0 banners
- No logos
- Nothing about microsoft

they accept,and said no no problem we just want to speak about
interoperability but then....

Making deals with Microsoft, at least in my experience is like believing in
the Wolf of the Little Red Riding Hood story as they (MS) first
started with this
success have been in that event, then wanted to sponsor an event of drupal,
which as direct organizer I refused to accept money, in my opinion and maybe
very hard trial, Microsoft has nothing to do in an event of FOSS.

As they thought it, they then wrote an email saying that in honor of
discussing interoperability invited us to eat pizza (a good challenge geek
not to accept an invitation to eat pizza) and that they financed
To which the Salvadoran community refused completely ...

That followed?, well, they literally tried to bribe a close friend to agree
to pay him the journey to a Drupal event, he was invited to give talks to
them directly, again using the same technique ("interoperability"). ..

In my view it is difficult, especially when there are no funds, as in the
case of our community (El Salvador) yet we do not accept and took out the
event ...

Of course that's my experience, and as if we as a community of fedora I
think it is necessary to accept anything from them, says Gregory Fenton *"Who
wants a fedora hat with a fedora logo on one side and a "sponsored by
Microsoft (windows logo)" on the other side of it?"*

*"Unless Microsoft is willing to simply hand over the funds to support
fedora with no strings attached apart from declaring where the money has
been spent I would say "fedora is doing perfectly fine without your support,
thank you very much."*


As if that were not enough, as he commented to my friend who tried to bribe
them you know you know who you are and what position you play the role of
the community, if it were a party of ajedres know your game, your techniques
and the noble or not you can be ... even asked for you "If you" Neville
Cross, because they know the support we receive from you (By the way THANKS
for the total support for the Fedora community in El Salvador ...")

You see, this trick make interoperability between operating systems and between
proprietary software is only a white lie to soon achieve even separation or
fragmentation of communities and create controversy .... in the case of El
Salvador we had a good time thinking and discussing what to do ....

in my case I was more brief, NO, period ....

I hope you serve something shared my experience anything better came to
Nicaragua to help but do not accept or five of Microsoft ...

best regards.

-- magjogui

 <http://yosiuso.tatica.org/>
José Edgardo López Vásquez

fedora Ambassador [El Salvador]
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Magjogui
https://www.fedoraproject.org
magjogui(a)fedoraproject.org

Consultor en Software libre & GNU/ Linux
identica,irc,gtalk,msn,skype: magjogui(a)gmail.com
M. +(503) 75341503 (tigo)
H. +(503) 25171878

--


2011/3/18 Gregory Fenton <fedora(a)fedoradvds.com&gt;

>  1) It's Microsoft, champion of all things Microsoft to the
> detriment of
>  everything else.
>  2) Financial support is financial support.  If it helps one more person
>  make the jump from closed to open source software then it is an achieved
>  goal.
>
>  I tend to look beyond the immediacy of any issue and ask myself if x does y
>  what would the desired result be.
>
>  If Microsoft funds fedora projects they can achieve a major win almost
>  immediately:
>  "Why bother installing fedora when most of the software that works on
>  fedora also works out of the box on Windows? Even their own ambassadors are
>  changing their events to discuss the interoperability between their software
>  and Windows.  Why bother with installing a new OS when you can have good old
>  tried and trusted Windows running not only all the freeware software out
>  there but also all the windows apps that linux simply can't handle?"
>
>  Who wants a fedora hat with a fedora logo on one side and a "sponsored by
>  Microsoft (windows logo)" on the other side of it?
>
>  Unless Microsoft is willing to simply hand over the funds to support fedora
>  with no strings attached apart from declaring where the money has been spent
>  I would say "fedora is doing perfectly fine without your support, thank you
>  very much."
>
>  On 18 March 2011 10:17, Tristan Santore <
>  tristan.santore(a)internexusconnect.net&gt; wrote:
>
> >
> > To be honest, if they do take some of their billions and financially
> > support FOSS projects, mainly to make them work on more than just linux,
> > then good, about time they used their money for some good.
> >
> > But I suspect there are ulterior motives in this approach:
> >
> > 1. They are cutting their own costs by not having to use their own
> > testing people, as I know they have labs where they check
> > interoperability between windows and Linux services.
> >
> > 2. They figured Apple is looking quite evil now in the eyes of the FOSS
> > community, in terms of behaviour and openness, so they are trying to
> > make themselves look more favourable.
> >
> > 3. They are trying to grab off some Linux users, by making the same
> > standard applications work on windows, which basically means they are
> > scared. (which will work in the GNU Linux Operating system becoming more
> > "accessible" to people, as they will say, well, I already use most of
> > the same applications, I may as well save money, be more secure, and
> > efficient, and use a Linux based operating system).
> >
> > 4. The main reason why they are there, is to show presence, as many
> > business service providers are now actively seeking cost cutting
> > measures, which makes them more profitable, and Linux is an attractive
> > way to do this. (great for the FOSS community too).
> >
> > So all in all, as far as I am concerned, they can do whatever they like,
> > as long as they do not make people sign stupid legal agreements to
> > prevent them from doing what they want with their FOSS
> > product/developments. If Amarok got 100k in support, for instance, I
> > could not care less, if it makes Amarok even better. You may replace
> > Amarok with any other application of your choice in that example.
> >
> > I would not be too concerned, after all, there is a reason why people
> > like FOSS, especially hackers, as they can just code and do not have to
> > worry about libraries and licenses and god knows what else. You just
> > want to have fun with software/code.
> > And as a user, typing in serials, and clicking agreement buttons, yuck,
> > no thanks.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tristan
> >
> > --
> > Tristan Santore BSc MBCS
> > TS4523-RIPE
> > Network and Infrastructure Operations
> > InterNexusConnect
> > Mobile [phone]
> > Tristan.Santore(a)internexusconnect.net
> >
> > Former Thawte Notary
> > (Please note: Thawte has closed its WoT programme down,
> > and I am therefore no longer able to accredit trust)
> >
> > For Fedora related issues, please email me at:
> > TSantore(a)fedoraproject.org
> > --
> > ambassadors mailing list
> > ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
> >
>
>
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[Gregory Fenton]

Thanks for that, it sounds like past history bears out that my train of
thought was correct.

by the way, I had to google, "ajedres" means chess.

I have a question about your friend.. were the talks about interoperability
scripted by Microsoft (at least in part)?
---
Las gracias por eso, suena como última historia confirma que mi tren del
pensamiento estaba correcto.

a propósito, tuve que google, " ajedres" significa chess.

Tengo una pregunta sobre su amigo. ¿eran habla de interoperabilidad con
guión por Microsoft (por lo menos en parte)?

Blame babelfish for the above translation:)

Greg


2011/3/18 José Edgardo López Vásquez <magjogui(a)gmail.com&gt;

>  Dear Neville, let me tell you that the last year in San Salvador,for
> the
>  same event, in the Salvadorean Comunity we accept to have some microsoft
>  present in the (flisol) after discuss in the Salvadorean Comunity but we
>  never accept money.
>
>  The agrement was that:
>
>  - 0 banners
>  - No logos
>  - Nothing about microsoft
>
>  they accept,and said no no problem we just want to speak about
>  interoperability but then....
>
>  Making deals with Microsoft, at least in my experience is like believing in
>  the Wolf of the Little Red Riding Hood story as they (MS) first started
>  with this success have been in that event, then wanted to sponsor an event
>  of drupal, which as direct organizer I refused to accept money, in my
>  opinion and maybe very hard trial, Microsoft has nothing to do in an event
>  of FOSS.
>
>  As they thought it, they then wrote an email saying that in honor of
>  discussing interoperability invited us to eat pizza (a good challenge geek
>  not to accept an invitation to eat pizza) and that they financed
>  To which the Salvadoran community refused completely ...
>
>  That followed?, well, they literally tried to bribe a close friend to
>  agree to pay him the journey to a Drupal event, he was invited to give
>  talks to them directly, again using the same technique ("interoperability
>  "). ..
>
>  In my view it is difficult, especially when there are no funds, as in the
>  case of our community (El Salvador) yet we do not accept and took out the
>  event ...
>
>  Of course that's my experience, and as if we as a community of fedora I
>  think it is necessary to accept anything from them, says Gregory Fenton *"Who
>  wants a fedora hat with a fedora logo on one side and a "sponsored by
>  Microsoft (windows logo)" on the other side of it?"*
>
>  *"Unless Microsoft is willing to simply hand over the funds to support
>  fedora with no strings attached apart from declaring where the money has
>  been spent I would say "fedora is doing perfectly fine without your support,
>  thank you very much."*
>
>
>  As if that were not enough, as he commented to my friend who tried to
>  bribe them you know you know who you are and what position you play the role
>  of the community, if it were a party of ajedres know your game, your
>  techniques and the noble or not you can be ... even asked for you "If you"
>  Neville Cross, because they know the support we receive from you (By the
>  way THANKS for the total support for the Fedora community in El Salvador
>  ...")
>
>  You see, this trick make interoperability between operating systems and between
>  proprietary software is only a white lie to soon achieve even separation
>  or fragmentation of communities and create controversy .... in the case of El
>  Salvador we had a good time thinking and discussing what to do ....
>
>  in my case I was more brief, NO, period ....
>
>  I hope you serve something shared my experience anything better came to
>  Nicaragua to help but do not accept or five of Microsoft ...
>
>  best regards.
>
>  -- magjogui
>
>   <http://yosiuso.tatica.org/>
>  José Edgardo López Vásquez
>
>  fedora Ambassador [El Salvador]
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Magjogui
>  https://www.fedoraproject.org
>  magjogui(a)fedoraproject.org
>
>  Consultor en Software libre & GNU/ Linux
>  identica,irc,gtalk,msn,skype: magjogui(a)gmail.com
>  M. +(503) 75341503 (tigo)
>  H. +(503) 25171878
>
>  --
>
>
>
>  2011/3/18 Gregory Fenton <fedora(a)fedoradvds.com&gt;
>
> > 1) It's Microsoft, champion of all things Microsoft to the detriment of
> > everything else.
> > 2) Financial support is financial support.  If it helps one more person
> > make the jump from closed to open source software then it is an achieved
> > goal.
> >
> > I tend to look beyond the immediacy of any issue and ask myself if x does
> > y what would the desired result be.
> >
> > If Microsoft funds fedora projects they can achieve a major win almost
> > immediately:
> > "Why bother installing fedora when most of the software that works on
> > fedora also works out of the box on Windows? Even their own ambassadors are
> > changing their events to discuss the interoperability between their software
> > and Windows.  Why bother with installing a new OS when you can have good old
> > tried and trusted Windows running not only all the freeware software out
> > there but also all the windows apps that linux simply can't handle?"
> >
> > Who wants a fedora hat with a fedora logo on one side and a "sponsored by
> > Microsoft (windows logo)" on the other side of it?
> >
> > Unless Microsoft is willing to simply hand over the funds to support
> > fedora with no strings attached apart from declaring where the money has
> > been spent I would say "fedora is doing perfectly fine without your support,
> > thank you very much."
> >
> > On 18 March 2011 10:17, Tristan Santore <
> > tristan.santore(a)internexusconnect.net&gt; wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> To be honest, if they do take some of their billions and financially
> >> support FOSS projects, mainly to make them work on more than just linux,
> >> then good, about time they used their money for some good.
> >>
> >> But I suspect there are ulterior motives in this approach:
> >>
> >> 1. They are cutting their own costs by not having to use their own
> >> testing people, as I know they have labs where they check
> >> interoperability between windows and Linux services.
> >>
> >> 2. They figured Apple is looking quite evil now in the eyes of the FOSS
> >> community, in terms of behaviour and openness, so they are trying to
> >> make themselves look more favourable.
> >>
> >> 3. They are trying to grab off some Linux users, by making the same
> >> standard applications work on windows, which basically means they are
> >> scared. (which will work in the GNU Linux Operating system becoming more
> >> "accessible" to people, as they will say, well, I already use most of
> >> the same applications, I may as well save money, be more secure, and
> >> efficient, and use a Linux based operating system).
> >>
> >> 4. The main reason why they are there, is to show presence, as many
> >> business service providers are now actively seeking cost cutting
> >> measures, which makes them more profitable, and Linux is an attractive
> >> way to do this. (great for the FOSS community too).
> >>
> >> So all in all, as far as I am concerned, they can do whatever they like,
> >> as long as they do not make people sign stupid legal agreements to
> >> prevent them from doing what they want with their FOSS
> >> product/developments. If Amarok got 100k in support, for instance, I
> >> could not care less, if it makes Amarok even better. You may replace
> >> Amarok with any other application of your choice in that example.
> >>
> >> I would not be too concerned, after all, there is a reason why people
> >> like FOSS, especially hackers, as they can just code and do not have to
> >> worry about libraries and licenses and god knows what else. You just
> >> want to have fun with software/code.
> >> And as a user, typing in serials, and clicking agreement buttons, yuck,
> >> no thanks.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Tristan
> >>
> >> --
> >> Tristan Santore BSc MBCS
> >> TS4523-RIPE
> >> Network and Infrastructure Operations
> >> InterNexusConnect
> >> Mobile [phone]
> >> Tristan.Santore(a)internexusconnect.net
> >>
> >> Former Thawte Notary
> >> (Please note: Thawte has closed its WoT programme down,
> >> and I am therefore no longer able to accredit trust)
> >>
> >> For Fedora related issues, please email me at:
> >> TSantore(a)fedoraproject.org
> >> --
> >> ambassadors mailing list
> >> ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > ambassadors mailing list
> > ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
> >
>
>
>
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[Neville A. Cross]

On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 06:34 -0600, José Edgardo López Vásquez wrote:
<skip>
>  That followed?, well, they literally tried to bribe a close friend
> to
>  agree to pay him the journey to a Drupal event, he was invited to give
>  talks to them directly, again using the same technique
>  ("interoperability"). .. 
<skip>

At this moment there has no signs of bribe, but as more experienced I
can connect the dots. During the talk they offered to recommend
customers seeking for FOSS solution to some of the people having already
established a business in free software. My guess is that they will
"help" opinion leaders to get jobs in mixed environments, where they can
shine with their linux skills, but in the other hand they will be extra
busy to keep up helping the community. This may also end up fragmenting
the community.

Thanks for all your opinions, I have read all the emails. I still would
rather not have dealing with Microsoft, but as this is a community I
have to wait what the local people have to say.

Best regards

-- 
Neville
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v
Linux User # 473217

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[Caius 'kaio' Chance]

Hi,

On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:02 AM, Neville A. Cross <neville(a)taygon.com&gt;wrote:

>  On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 06:34 -0600, José Edgardo López Vásquez wrote:
>  <skip>
>  > That followed?, well, they literally tried to bribe a close friend to
>  > agree to pay him the journey to a Drupal event, he was invited to give
>  > talks to them directly, again using the same technique
>  > ("interoperability"). ..
>  <skip>
>
>  At this moment there has no signs of bribe, but as more experienced I
>  can connect the dots. During the talk they offered to recommend
>  customers seeking for FOSS solution to some of the people having already
>  established a business in free software. My guess is that they will
>  "help" opinion leaders to get jobs in mixed environments, where they can
>  shine with their linux skills, but in the other hand they will be extra
>  busy to keep up helping the community. This may also end up fragmenting
>  the community.
>
>  Thanks for all your opinions, I have read all the emails. I still would
>  rather not have dealing with Microsoft, but as this is a community I
>  have to wait what the local people have to say.
>
>  Best regards
>
>  --
>  Neville
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v
>  Linux User # 473217
>
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  
Personally I only appreciate if Microsoft is spending on developing
area of interoperability
rather than "appearance" in FOSS events. Before they have shown significant
contribution on that, they are more welcomed to present in non-FOSS events.
My 2c.

K410
-- 
Regards ☺ Caius 'kaio' Chance
Fedora Project Contributor - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kaio
[IRC] kaio @ freenode | [Twitter] @K410 | [Blog] kaio.net

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[Gregory Fenton]

What an excellent, logical and well worded reply.

2011/3/18 Caius 'kaio' Chance <kaio(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;

>  Hi,
>
>
>  On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:02 AM, Neville A. Cross <neville(a)taygon.com&gt;wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 06:34 -0600, José Edgardo López Vásquez wrote:
> > <skip>
> > > That followed?, well, they literally tried to bribe a close friend to
> > > agree to pay him the journey to a Drupal event, he was invited to give
> > > talks to them directly, again using the same technique
> > > ("interoperability"). ..
> > <skip>
> >
> > At this moment there has no signs of bribe, but as more experienced I
> > can connect the dots. During the talk they offered to recommend
> > customers seeking for FOSS solution to some of the people having already
> > established a business in free software. My guess is that they will
> > "help" opinion leaders to get jobs in mixed environments, where they can
> > shine with their linux skills, but in the other hand they will be extra
> > busy to keep up helping the community. This may also end up fragmenting
> > the community.
> >
> > Thanks for all your opinions, I have read all the emails. I still would
> > rather not have dealing with Microsoft, but as this is a community I
> > have to wait what the local people have to say.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > --
> > Neville
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v
> > Linux User # 473217
> >
> > --
> > ambassadors mailing list
> > ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
> >
>
>  Personally I only appreciate if Microsoft is spending on developing area of
> interoperability
>  rather than "appearance" in FOSS events. Before they have shown significant
>  contribution on that, they are more welcomed to present in non-FOSS events.
>  My 2c.
>
>  K410
>  --
>  Regards ☺ Caius 'kaio' Chance
>  Fedora Project Contributor - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kaio
>  [IRC] kaio @ freenode | [Twitter] @K410 | [Blog] kaio.net
>
>
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[Mathieu Bridon]

On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 10:17 +0000, Tristan Santore wrote:
>  To be honest, if they do take some of their billions and financially
>  support FOSS projects, mainly to make them work on more than just linux,
>  then good, about time they used their money for some good.
>  
>  But I suspect there are ulterior motives in this approach: 
What happened to « assume good faith » ? :)


-- 
Mathieu

sponsorship from Microsoft to freesoftware events in Nicaragua

[Acid Core]

Hello,

All that I read from the replies only confirms thoughts that we better NOT
deal with anything Microsoft.

Best Regards,
IFo