smilner reported a new issue against the project: `atomic-wg` that you are following: `` In [this ticket](https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/360) is was decided to continue to keep ``docker`` in the base. However, we want to make sure that people have the option to use ``cri-o`` as their container runtime if they would like to do so (and possibly other runtimes in the future).
For consistency it would seem ``cri-o`` should be added to base as well but this would increase the size. However, we already have system containers for both ``cri-o`` and ``docker``.
How can we provide a good ``cri-o`` experience for our Atomic Host user base keeping in mind that ``docker`` will be part of the base already?
/cc @dwalsh @mpatel ``
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gscrivano added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` I think one way of doing this is to copy the CRI-O clients (crioctl, kpod, something else?) to the host so that they can be accessed directly without requiring "atomic exec".
I am very biased on this topic but I don't see the point of adding another component to the host image when it works very well from a container. Also, if the need arises we have package layering.
In particular for CRI-O there are different versions that follow the Kubernetes/OpenShift releases, so which one would be added to the base image? ``
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smilner added a new comment to an issue you are following: ``
I think one way of doing this is to copy the CRI-O clients (crioctl, kpod, something else?) to the host so that they can be accessed directly without requiring "atomic exec".
I am very biased on this topic but I don't see the point of adding another component to the host image when it works very well from a container. Also, if the need arises we have package layering.
I'm with you on that. The worry is around it being as easy to access as docker since docker is going to remain in the base (though folks who need a different version for OpenShift or other things will continue to use system containers). We don't want to discourage the use of docker at all, but we also don't want to discourage the use of cri-o because you have to jump through hoops. ``
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smilner added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` Added meeting label to discuss in next WG. ``
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walters added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` My high level feeling is:
Two years from now, for Atomic Host we should basically be a minimal install; `sshd`, `kernel`, `systemd`, and then finally `atomic` and `rpm-ostree`. Hopefully by that time we'll have fleshed out the system containers story more, *and* also have "live" package layering. I hope we'll also have e.g. changed `oc cluster up` to not require Docker on the host.
What we do in the short term is a harder problem, as well as how we handle transitions - trying to drop `docker` would be a large and painful change without a lot of work. ``
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smilner added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` Some of the discussion around this (this is edited): ``` 11:45:27 dwalsh | Yes I think adding podman once it stabilizes is a good idea. 11:46:12 ashcrow | It sounds like it's not ready just yet 11:46:19 dustymabe | still, the current question is related to should we include podman, not should we remove docker 11:46:30 ashcrow | but once it is, assuming it's not a massive size hit, I think it makes sense to add it 11:46:51 misc | ashcrow: massive size hit being around how much ? 11:47:39 dwalsh | 47 Megabytes right now. 11:47:41 ashcrow | misc: that is subjective, but IMHO it should be no bigger than docker if possible 11:48:53 dwalsh | Docker files are currently 46 11:48:57 ashcrow | close enough 11:49:00 dustymabe | 1. add podman 11:49:11 dustymabe | 2. make docker not start by default but be socket activated 11:49:18 dwalsh | Yes I would lets us figure out how well it goes over the next month or so. 11:49:22 dustymabe | that way the user chooses if they want docker running or not 11:52:37 dustymabe | we close it out and say "no to cri-o" 11:53:08 dustymabe | and then open a new ticket for evaluating podman in a few months 11:53:15 dustymabe | with the steps laid out above 11:56:20 dustymabe | #action dustymabe to create new ticket for evaluating podman in a few months ``` ``
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smilner added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` We will not add ``cri-o`` to base. ``podman`` will be looked at in a ticket opened by @dustymabe. ``
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The status of the issue: `cri-o/podman in Atomic Host` of project: `atomic-wg` has been updated to: Closed as Invalid by smilner.
atomic@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Colin Walters -
Giuseppe Scrivano
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Steve Milner