dustymabe reported a new issue against the project: `atomic-wg` that you are following: `` From @mattdm :
``` Do we have anything I should emphasize for beta, coming up next week? What about in May?
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_28_talking_points#Fedora_Atomic ``` ``
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dustymabe added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` Can everyone please add ideas here?
Asking @sanja to be responsible for seeing this one through to completion. ``
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The issue: `Fedora 28 Talking Points` of project: `atomic-wg` has been assigned to `sanja` by dustymabe.
misc added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` So for Atomic Workstation, I would say that since gnome-software now support flatpak, you can install things without the CLI. ``
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miabbott added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` Maybe mention the first pieces of rpm-ostree automatic update policy have landed ``
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misc added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` Is there also something on "the-downlaod-system-that-used-to-be-called-jigdo" ? ``
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walters added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` One high level thing here is that while a lot of the Fedora processes think in terms of the "major" releases, in fact we're usually *constantly* releasing changes into $currentstable (e.g. `27`), even if Fedora as a whole doesn't think of things that way or do much formal around them (aside from the FAH sub-releases which just roll up the general bodhi stream).
We don't have different versions of `rpm-ostree` across different releases since that would be a huge pain. So there's nothing new in 28 that isn't in 27. In fact, for the same reasons e.g. the `kernel` maintainers.
IMO a lot of the "between major" changes basically boil down to: systemd, GNOME and toolchains (gcc, node.js, java) etc.
Of those, only systemd is relevant for FAH.
We have historically done some "between majors" changes for FAH like switching to overlay. But there's no changes like that queued for FAH28.
On the automatic updates side, I think it's likely we enable it by default, whether that makes 29 or not I'm not sure.
``
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dustymabe added a new comment to an issue you are following: ``
One high level thing here is that while a lot of the Fedora processes think in terms of the "major" releases, in fact we're usually constantly releasing changes into $currentstable (e.g. 27)
Yes, that is a subtle point. I usually take the release as an opportunity to summarize big changes that have happened since last major release (as well as new onces), since people who haven't been following closely might not have noticed them all. It's also a good way to generate buzz multiple times.
WDYT? ``
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misc added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` +1 for last dusty comment. You were faster than me to answer, but I was about to say the same. We can also turn that as "offered by default" and explain this was backported on the latest stable. ``
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walters added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` Sure, I have no problem with that. However, I think there's a bigger picture issue here in that we need to fundamentally accelerate the Fedora 6 month cycle; i.e. not have the FAH releases be a sidecar. Let's take the example of Rust. They release every 6 *weeks*. And they get a lot done in that timeframe.
They actually have the converse problem; they release so quickly that there's [plans to introduce "epochs"](https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2052) which are like Fedora major versions which involve a lot of "roll-up marketing" of everything that happened in a bunch of those 6 week releases.
Anyways this isn't the ticket for that discussion... ``
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jlebon added a new comment to an issue you are following: ``
So for Atomic Workstation, I would say that since gnome-software now support flatpak, you can install things without the CLI.
Also `gnome-software` should now support rpm-ostree, so you can update your host without the CLI. ``
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mattdm added a new comment to an issue you are following: ``
They actually have the converse problem; they release so quickly that there's plans to introduce "epochs" which are like Fedora major versions which involve a lot of "roll-up marketing" of everything that happened in a bunch of those 6 week releases.
Treating the Fedora releases like "epochs" in this sense for marketing Atomic Host makes perfect sense to me. I still need some things to say, though. :)
The Atomic Workstation stuff is certainly interesting, but I'd like that to be separated out clearly. ``
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mattdm added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` Also note that @x3mboy is trying to write the beta release announcement _right now_, so this is fairly urgent. :) ``
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gscrivano added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` one important change in the atomic system containers is that now an atomic system container uses the SELinux policy from the host. Every file in the container gets the same label it would have if installed on the host (e.g. /usr/bin/foo in the container has the same SELinux label as /usr/bin/foo on the host).
Advantages:
1) We can run containerized system services without losing the possibility of having different SELinux contexts (e.g. the docker system container will run as system_u:system_r:container_runtime_t:s0) 2) We can finally fully deduplicate files on AH with the rest of the system as there is no mismatch in the xattrs. ``
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dustymabe added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` Some ideas:
- now using a unified ostree repo for all atomic host and atomic workstation ostrees [email](https://lists.projectatomic.io/projectatomic-archives/atomic-devel/2018-Marc...) - highlight the fact that we are doing multi-arch (we've been doing it for a while, but talking about it often is not a bad thing) - new features in rpm-ostree/ostree (auto updates, others??, there was a blog recently) - buildah (even though not in the host, still relevant) - podman (even though not in the host, still relevant and maybe will include in the host for f28 final)
``
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miabbott added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` the kubernetes system containers are using kube 1.9 now; you could link to the kube release notes, as there is a lot there
https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/blob/master/CHANGELOG-1.9.md#19-rel... ``
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x3mboy added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` I'm taking note of everything you are commenting. Thanks so much for your help ``
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dustymabe added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` @x3mboy - can you update this ticket with the talking points we used for Beta? We'll use that as a starting point (draft) for the talking points for F28 final? ``
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miabbott added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` Based on the FedMag article, it looks like only Kube 1.9 was mentioned in the Beta talking points - https://fedoramagazine.org/announcing-fedora-28-beta/
Scanning this ticket, here's a shot at some talking points:
- Automatic update checking is now supported
Users of Fedora Atomic Host 28 can now configure `rpm-ostree` to automatically check for updates to the host. This functionality is disabled by default; users will have to opt in. For more information, consult the upstream [rpm-ostree pull request]( https://github.com/projectatomic/rpm-ostree/pull/1147).
- Atomic system containers now use the SELinux policy from the host
Every file in the container gets the same label it would have if installed on the host (e.g. /usr/bin/foo in the container has the same SELinux label as `/usr/bin/foo` on the host). This allows users to run containerized system services without losing the possibility of having different SELinux contexts. Additionally, we can finally fully de-duplicate files on Fedora Atomic Host with the rest of the system, as there is no mismatch in the `xattrs`. For more information, consult the upstream [atomic issue](https://github.com/projectatomic/atomic/pull/1143).
- Unified ostree repo for all Fedora Atomic Host and Fedora Atomic Workstation ostree content
With the release of Fedora Atomic Host 28, we now have a single ostree repo that serves up all the Fedora 28 content for Atomic Host and Fedora Atomic Workstation. This includes all the multi-arch content for `aarch64` and `ppc64le`.
- Fedora Atomic Host 28 is available for AArch64 and PPCle64
Fedora Atomic Host continues to be available and supported on `x86_64`, `aarch64`, and `ppcle64` architectures.
- buildah + podman are now included by default in Fedora Atomic Host
The release of Fedora Atomic Host 28 introduces two new tools for building and managing containers on your host. The `buildah` tool allows you to build containers on your host without the need for using the `docker` daemon. Likewise, the `podman` tool allows you to pull, run, stop, start, and otherwise manage your containers on your host without the need for the `docker` daemon. For more information, check out the the upstream repo for [buildah](https://github.com/projectatomic/buildah) and [podman](https://github.com/projectatomic/libpod).
- Kubernetes 1.9 containers available
Along with the release of Fedora Atomic Host 18, we are pleased to announce the availability of version 1.9 of Kubernetes via containers on the Fedora Container Registry. There is a ton of new features in this release of Kubernetes, for more information consult the [Kubernetes 1.9 release notes](https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/blob/master/CHANGELOG-1.9.md#19-rel...).
@dustymabe @sanja @jlebon @giuseppep @x3mboy - Could you have look at these notes and see how they look?
I think we should be able to copy/paste them into https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_28_talking_points if they look sane ``
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dustymabe added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` @miabbott LGTM, we might want to remove highlighting of buildah since we may remove it from AH in the future (because `podman build` will be able to do it all). Or maybe we just change the wording a bit to highlight `podman build` itself a little more. ``
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miabbott added a new comment to an issue you are following: ``
@miabbott LGTM, we might want to remove highlighting of buildah since we may remove it from AH in the future (because podman build will be able to do it all). Or maybe we just change the wording a bit to highlight podman build itself a little more.
Sure, how about:
- podman is now included by default in Fedora Atomic Host
The release of Fedora Atomic Host 28 introduces a new tool for building and managing containers on your host. The `podman` tool allows you to build, pull, run, stop, start, and otherwise manage your containers on your host without the need for the `docker` daemon. For more information, check out the the upstream repo for [podman](https://github.com/projectatomic/libpod). ``
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dustymabe added a new comment to an issue you are following: ``
Sure, how about:
podman is now included by default in Fedora Atomic Host
The release of Fedora Atomic Host 28 introduces a new tool for building and managing containers on your host. The podman tool allows you to build, pull, run, stop, start, and otherwise manage your containers on your host without the need for the docker daemon. For more information, check out the the upstream repo for podman.
That looks great! ``
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miabbott added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` Thanks @dustymabe, one LGTM is good enough for me. :laughing:
If there are further edits, you can note them here or edit the wiki directly. ``
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jlebon added a new comment to an issue you are following: ``
Automatic update checking is now supported
Users of Fedora Atomic Host 28 can now configure rpm-ostree to automatically check for updates to the host. This functionality is disabled by default; users will have to opt in. For more information, consult the upstream rpm-ostree pull request.
Thanks for adding this! Maybe let's instead link to more user-friendly docs, e.g.:
For more information, check out the Project Atomic [blog](http://www.projectatomic.io/blog/2018/03/new-rpm-ostree-features/), as well as `rpm-ostreed.conf(5)` and `rpm-ostreed-automatic.service(8)`.
? ``
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miabbott added a new comment to an issue you are following: ``
Automatic update checking is now supported Users of Fedora Atomic Host 28 can now configure rpm-ostree to automatically check for updates to the host. This functionality is disabled by default; users will have to opt in. For more information, consult the upstream rpm-ostree pull request.
Thanks for adding this! Maybe let's instead link to more user-friendly docs, e.g.: For more information, check out the Project Atomic blog, as well as rpm-ostreed.conf(5) and rpm-ostreed-automatic.service(8). ?
Excellent! Updated the talking points wiki with this ``
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The status of the issue: `Fedora 28 Talking Points` of project: `atomic-wg` has been updated to: Closed as Fixed by dustymabe.
x3mboy added a new comment to an issue you are following: `` The Talking Points are perfect, thanks so much for working on this. The Release Announcement is made by the FPL, and I'm pretty sure that he take this one into account. ``
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atomic@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Colin Walters -
Dusty Mabe
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Eduard Lucena
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Giuseppe Scrivano
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Jonathan Lebon
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Matthew Miller
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Micah Abbott
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Michael Scherer