cloud November 2013

cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org

30 participants
37 discussions

ZOMG WHAT ARE WE BUILDING?!
by Joe Brockmeier 07 Nov '13

07 Nov '13

Hi all, (For those who weren't in today's IRC meeting, I sorta apologize for the subject line. Sorta.) As we were discussing today - we need to decide what we are building, and (almost as importantly) what we're not building. We've agreed that we want to be cooperating with the server SIG, but don't necessarily plan to build a foundation for an IaaS ourselves. Some of the questions that were raised during the meeting: - Should we drop 32-bit? - Should we be targeting ARM? - Do we worry about supporting ALL THE METHODS of building the image, or no? (I recommend we focus on One True Way so as not to confuse everyone with 80 different ways they *could* do it.) Other questions, thoughts, comments, flames? I also want to recommend that we think hard about not just what we build, but accompanying it with appropriate amounts of documentation for the developers/users we expect to be consuming the image. I'm sure it goes without saying that we would document what we do, but I would like to see this thought about each step of the way so that when we get to a finished product, it's dead easy to adopt. Best, jzb -- Joe Brockmeier | Principal Cloud & Storage Analyst jzb(a)redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/ Twitter: @jzb | http://dissociatedpress.net/

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Fedora Cloud WG weekly meeting minutes - 6 Nov 2013
by Sam Kottler 06 Nov '13

06 Nov '13

Thanks everyone who was able to make it to the meeting today! For those who weren't able to make it, here are few important links: Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-11-06/fedora-meeting… Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-11-06/fedora-meeting… Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-11-06/fedora-meeting… Here's a summary of the meeting (link to the HTML version above): ========================================== #fedora-meeting-1: Cloud WG weekly meeting ========================================== Meeting started by samkottler at 17:00:29 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-11-06/fedora-meeting… . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll call (samkottler, 17:04:35) * Announcements (samkottler, 17:05:53) * ACTION: frankieonuonga to bump his initial mail about roles + responsibilities (samkottler, 17:09:30) * rbergeron frankieonuonga stahnma samkottler to work on the PRD (samkottler, 17:19:19) * the goal for PRD completion is december 15th, the pace needed for that will be determined on the list (samkottler, 17:23:54) * AGREED: the goal for PRD completion is december 15th, the pace needed for that will be determined on the list (+5) (samkottler, 17:25:13) * pending tickets (samkottler, 17:25:55) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/1 (samkottler, 17:26:26) * LINK: https://git.fedorahosted.org/git/cloud-image-service.git (samkottler, 17:32:38) * frankieonuonga will work with dgilmore and others in rel-eng to communicate about WG plans and help automate different processes (samkottler, 17:33:49) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/2 (samkottler, 17:40:46) * ACTION: samkottler to do more research into the actual tools and their licenses that are required to build GCE images (samkottler, 17:48:18) * open floor (samkottler, 17:54:21) * hguemar looking to package gcutil (number80, 17:54:34) Meeting ended at 18:01:08 UTC. Action Items ------------ * frankieonuonga to bump his initial mail about roles + responsibilities * samkottler to do more research into the actual tools and their licenses that are required to build GCE images Action Items, by person ----------------------- * frankieonuonga * frankieonuonga to bump his initial mail about roles + responsibilities * samkottler * samkottler to do more research into the actual tools and their licenses that are required to build GCE images * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * samkottler (87) * frankieonuonga (73) * number80 (35) * dgilmore (32) * rbergeron (27) * stahnma (20) * nirik (5) * zodbot (5) * geppetto (5) * sgallagh (3) * mattdm (3)

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Re: Draft Product Description for Fedora Workstation
by Paul W. Frields 06 Nov '13

06 Nov '13

On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 10:24:20AM -0400, Christian Fredrik Kalager Schaller wrote: > Hi everyone, > Attached is the draft PRD for the Workstation working group. The > proposal tries to be relatively high level and focus on goals and > principles, but I have included some concrete examples at times to try > to provide some clarity on how the goals and principles could play out > in practice. > > I hope the community at large will take the time to read through it and > provide feedback so that when the working group meet next we can use > that feedback to start tuning in on the final form of the PRD. Here's a statement we may need to better clarify on p. 3: "The working group will also specify policies in terms of branding, themeing and desktop graphics." I think we should be clear that any branding efforts need to fit into the overall branding framework of Fedora. We should be careful to avoid having branding diverge between the products to an extent that makes it harder for us to identify them as part of a family of Fedora products. In my time as an FPL, I worked extensively with Fedora folks on trademark and brand guidelines. I suspect Robyn has done quite the same wherever possible. It would be a step backward to make it harder for people to readily identify any of the Fedora products with Fedora. This is really a suggestion for all the working groups, so I'm cc'ing server@ and cloud@ lists too. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com

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Cloud product kernel requirements
by Josh Boyer 06 Nov '13

06 Nov '13

Hi All, I realize the WG is just forming up and you have a lot of other items to cover for now, but I wanted to get this sent out and have people start thinking about it sooner rather than later. The kernel team has heard in the past that the Cloud group would like to see something of a more minimal kernel for usage in cloud images. We'd like to hear the requirements for what this smaller image would need to cover. Right now, a default x86_64 kernel package on f20 is ~134MB installed. Most of that is device drivers installed in /lib/modules/`uname -r`/. The vmlinux binary is about 5MB and the initramfs (which is created at install time and can actually vary quite widely depending on various things) is about 11MB. Drivers can be trimmed to a degree, but please keep in mind that the kernel is already relatively small for the functionality it provides. For example, it is not much bigger than glibc-common (119MB). So, some caveats to keep in mind while you're thinking about this: 1) We're mostly talking about packaging here, not building a separate cloud kernel package or vmlinux. The kernel team really wants to have a single vmlinux across the 3 products if at all possible. We can't scale to much else. 2) What usecases is the cloud image going to cover? E.g. is it just virtio stuff, or will it also fit PCI passthru (which then requires drivers for those PCI devices)? 3) What are the common provisioning requirements that are driving the size reduction? (See comment about glibc-common. I would think change is needed in multiple packages, not just the kernel.) 4) Other "cloudy" stuff that I'm entirely unaware of that might be relevant. Explain it to me like I'm a child. Thanks! josh

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Fedora 20-Beta RC4 AMIS
by Dennis Gilmore 06 Nov '13

06 Nov '13

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hi all, Beta RC2 images have been uploaded to EC2 and are available at ami-c3e3bbaa : us-east-1 image for i386 ami-d3e2baba : us-east-1 image for x86_64 additionally if your looking to the AMI's they have been added to files in the release tree http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-Beta-RC4/Images/i386/Fedora-Im… http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-Beta-RC4/Images/x86_64/Fedora-… when we get to final Beta and the images are uploaded to all regions they will all be listed and the file will be gpg signed in the final tree Dennis -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSeaP8AAoJEH7ltONmPFDRk9IP/jnNhm8M088uIJw/4LQYfy7n UtBF6NnEb1yUg2TSMuprVc4z1ZczG2t/UPZiQW5j6QnXLg+72XjYmr/9W/BhH1AR rrzIOzQskrD1HK0yvkTt8P2KEgulCsUknx5PDgwY1pe3A55kHLiB/ePpUY0Sow8V 6bzHAaOdyX8RhumqkwB1GkVMavH89jgzmSntu0+qa/Yp8Y4H6gPr+6BpNtLUz9tu fH15kqBayGzvNhoXzDtgiKF+eH/KITcdngNxjVIDSWYacYdhgbN3cYXI6z9D9Ylj b5g11XfNwlB50hzQIldFyOdHVJtIqEA97uixPlHVBGfP1+vF5cbb40DK2qWNv87m MmqGpXb3nvC9RKwQWbEHgAaIDAOFqFs+AD5AyDlBJRl9J0w4WvXEZpJwCWaaRJLf 1gEyr5m/K0GAyFPgtxsAvGjNzJUrA958++5QHy4Ogpq2dXd0ZcTedIz3Vu5FLvTG tHsmSJet3wmfMsVXw5lqGdSKqsYMfxIe/eLSzhqkSn9ckbrLMBpUqSxqiFXel3Lt qNvnyec8lDZcn1PsN6OhAvktpB5bvfy0xcOObikmGAEaQByNZ3sCxxOp8zJ7azrR 9E1MfpGgle1S1arOLoVCvG5S+Gp3HFxdI37BqFG6Qxwu2Cab9dYAN8T7whNzr68z 8yCKj2s2W3dctfNK4FYv =5Nfl -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Meeting reminder + agenda
by Sam Kottler 05 Nov '13

05 Nov '13

We'll have our second meeting tomorrow (Wednesday for those further east than me) at 17:00 UTC in #fedora-meeting-1 since FESCo has their meeting in #fedora-meeting at the same time. The agenda is: 1) Roll call 2) Announcements 3) Tickets 4) Open Floor If you've got anything you'd like us to cover during the tickets section, add them here [1] with the "meeting" keyword. You can view all the tickets that'll be covered tomorrow here [2]. Let me know if you've got any questions. -Sam 1. https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/newticket 2. https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/query?keywords=~meeting&status=!closed

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Fedora 20-Beta RC3 AMIS
by Dennis Gilmore 05 Nov '13

05 Nov '13

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hi all, Beta RC2 images have been uploaded to EC2 and are available at ami-afcc94c6 : us-east-1 image for i386 ami-a5cd95cc : us-east-1 image for x86_64 additionally if your looking to the AMI's they have been added to files in the release tree http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-Beta-RC3/Images/i386/Fedora-Im… http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-Beta-RC3/Images/x86_64/Fedora-… when we get to final Beta and the images are uploaded to all regions they will all be listed and the file will be gpg signed in the final tree Dennis -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSePznAAoJEH7ltONmPFDRZUMP/0OKQWw6gAUfoZF9Npxr/cUv bpy72rO8diw6gnP75DREvNpIBv+0Ud3EjSqgz58ZLRt8EVRBufNFAVHa4yqgaPUj IKkNcm6+INOY5xEDDblxzTduvJaeW5hv0y8cAirIgN63Yz3TEfFa1PV05bdb7Gnx NJ0qdaSRkDnXJ6RwIe0CIH7VSlUsw2atBVBw3vZPeXZ/RJALyDDBwJXxlrvgoM5h zuk4x8c960FHGplSd3h2bvYo9+weapcA10Jc+78j8qQoHzTLPtg6G18Yoqs/EFq8 TDR/zdogw2bFQfgsaBPEVpfAs0tnrUo0bHrp8ojQTXpKXOlZmvzVk23x903v9LsT SsgnpvoCs4u/n0dMKzF10uw7MgpZBY9BIPTumnKg+/+iCqhcjKzJy1uOnFVeG8UT DeyuI2NFZ18NM+iXqMPmMEWawiNys2p9JY3L5TiGEK5iJXuOaX5BXcXGhX1BOrai t0YtlKRa3afYogMgzJmb2/ZLiV8fuvt40VbJ3Io+wJUHougMhGYMjivJd7dfmd7c KHnlst54J00rnm9Ul47VvrYQg2HuFQEyuJA/uDy9qYMBInqGIQlfyGM7yM4lMt8V pPZ6gMi0EbTbnRh1t0mf4J2TdzuPj7wODk1zZ1PzY54mIlCNr76bQ8a9aukz0dzJ M6uLJmRzUTom0Az+r3Pa =6Hha -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Working group meeting next week
by Sam Kottler 05 Nov '13

05 Nov '13

Hi all, I've setup a new whenisgood [1] for next week's meeting. I'm free anytime but Wednesday afternoon (just this week), but if the time we used at the first meeting a few days ago works well for people then I'm perfectly content in using it again. mattdm will run the meeting if it ends up landing on Wednesday. Also, we should probably agree on a more permanent time at the upcoming meeting. Also, if you've got any topics you'd like to bring up please file them in trac [2] and I'll go through them and tag the issues we'll cover. Have a great weekend! -Sam 1. http://whenisgood.net/8eghr77 2. https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/newticket

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traveling today (at Usenix LISA this week)
by Matthew Miller 04 Nov '13

04 Nov '13

Hi all. I'm going to Usenix LISA, and will be traveling today. I should have internet access but it will be a bit slow and unreliable, so if I'm harder to get ahold of than usual, that's why. Also, if you happen to be at LISA too, stop by the Fedora booth and say hello! -- Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>

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Fedora 20-Beta RC2 AMIS
by Dennis Gilmore 01 Nov '13

01 Nov '13

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hi all, Beta RC2 images have been uploaded to EC2 and are available at ami-cbaaf3a2 : us-east-1 image for i386 ami-17abf27e : us-east-1 image for x86_64 additionally if your looking to the AMI's they have been added to files in the release tree http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-Beta-RC2/Images/i386/Fedora-Im… http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-Beta-RC2/Images/x86_64/Fedora-… when we get to final Beta and the images are uploaded to all regions they will all be listed and the file will be gpg signed in the final tree Dennis -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSdDUXAAoJEH7ltONmPFDREjcP/3+J3ZVsGLR/qQDSWFQr6qOD GkbrUGfMmDDzdHjeDosJOwnFb50txblO/yYkLrOwueVLvO8gg4SPXcEidftFjmLl euzFUXxsRkFLYiUZswXAHH4oD+DCy4l+HCy/YSRMK9G0u9Nr8SjXpu9zc0DF0NiR AczhdMjGSyrBfUc2TSqBgZMAmpSa4OCgR5B4T/yaWjROaSDkvNB48dtGVw0lKZcx YN/R09lMprJy5dxnmcZCSeCFG0R4qI2XcrGEQyHrzb7NeWEEm1wGY39EfAwiNEPE sBgZBLZCbCh3RX6wWvoIrlGslRkqmjvpiN5L+W2MzGlvFg5R2g5cPcgZAz+b3waU LsVFg9ogxeuMZTeMFyTae23VXGbdlMhe8w6EKU5NRGFGP2cZWpk+nq9cq/wG+z+b DLnLHcr/wvVi6btP7+5/UlHX66GSec3mFMC/Wz6Z8WV0MSss0tk4tNsjbW1ZL1oM lB4u4DWaL+zqgssO3dqwj45Rj3/n0wO6lY8r+cNP7Qau58WtvjXoEZ9wBgFaA87R XxVC5A++VWDIKDxkfWSBUOoDSf8Dm07BaLQxOHOKnZPKKJ9xr1Lv4HAu9hDtCkPe A7pa6h/CuRC9MRwHp2OnbRscDXRMepMRNDTesqA/u25Kl+ACwXYbRnbY33cmEayU MahQ9/38anpAHQ49b8lr =iMhF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: [Fedora-legal-list] Hosting Fedora cloud images
by Richard W.M. Jones 01 Nov '13

01 Nov '13

[NB: CC'd to the Fedora cloud SIG mailing list] On Tue, Oct 01, 2013 at 09:22:44AM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Tue, Oct 01, 2013 at 02:20:11PM +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > > Is there a reason to not use the official Fedora cloud images? > > That's part 2 of this exercise. Would like to talk to you > > about that separately at some point. > > Okay. Any time. :) So there are a few immediate problems (some of them in virt-builder itself). (1) Virt-builder really needs to be able to source images from multiple places. At the moment there is only one source location allowed, unless the user clumsily uses the --source option to point at another one. (2) Virt-builder currently assumes the image format is xz-compressed. Actually I notice the raw.xz images are in the correct format already, so we're good here. (3) Virt-builder requires all images to be GPG-signed. It worries me that these images are neither signed nor downloaded over https. (4) Virt-builder requires a (signed) index file describing each cloud image. I believe it would be a good thing for the cloud images to include an index file, so that tools can automatically find out what's there. The format of the index file is described here: http://libguestfs.org/virt-builder.1.html#creating-and-signing-the-index-fi… However having the index file will be less useful until (1) is fixed. (5) Digital signatures: Currently virt-builder requires all indexes and images to be signed by yours truly unless you go through an involved process described here: http://libguestfs.org/virt-builder.1.html#setting-up-a-gpg-key We need to fix this, but key management is a non-trivial problem, since we cannot host the public key in the same place as the index & images (an attacker could replace both the images & key at the same time). What's the strategy going to be for signing these cloud images? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To test this out, I created an index file for the 64 bit Fedora 19 cloud image, which is attached. I also signed it (signature also attached). You can test this if you want by putting all 3 files into a directory anywhere and using commands such as: virt-builder --source file:///path/to/index.asc -l virt-builder --source file:///path/to/index.asc --notes fedora-cloud-19 virt-builder --source file:///path/to/index.asc \ fedora-cloud-19 \ --size 20G \ --root-password password:123456 \ --install @development-tools And basically it works: $ virt-builder --source file:///mnt/scratch/index.asc fedora-cloud-19 --size 20G --root-password password:123456 --install @development-tools[ 0.0] Downloading: file:///mnt/scratch/Fedora-x86_64-19-20130627-sda.raw.xz [ 0.0] Creating disk image: fedora-cloud-19.img [ 1.0] Uncompressing: file:///mnt/scratch/Fedora-x86_64-19-20130627-sda.raw.xz [ 14.0] Running virt-resize to expand the disk to 20.0G [ 44.0] Opening the new disk [ 47.0] Setting a random seed [ 47.0] Setting root password [ 47.0] Installing packages: @development-tools [ 156.0] Finishing off Output: fedora-cloud-19.img Total usable space: 19.7G Free space: 18.6G (94%) I didn't test this one to see if it boots. Rich. -- Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones virt-top is 'top' for virtual machines. Tiny program with many powerful monitoring features, net stats, disk stats, logging, etc. http://people.redhat.com/~rjones/virt-top

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RE:
by Thomas Noonan 01 Nov '13

01 Nov '13

Email: attorney.noonan(a)att.net

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cloud November 2013