On 12/15/2015 10:58 PM, Kushal Das wrote:
On 14/12/15, Adam Williamson wrote:

On Tue, 2015-12-15 at 01:53 +0530, Kushal Das wrote:


          

            
The thing is that it's almost impossible to say "if we just run all X
tests, we can guarantee everything is fine!" in real life, especially
at the level of something as complex as an entire OS networking stack.
It's simply an unavoidable fact of life that the more network
configuration stacks we have in mass usage, the more likely it is that
there will be problems. We already have the legacy network.service and
NetworkManager, adding a third choice is kind of egregious.



          

          
The third choice is already in the images along with systemd.

        

      

    

    

    Great. 

    

    

      

        

          

        

        
But it is not used as the default networking configuration stack by any
existing Fedora deliverable of which I'm aware.



      

      
Correct in that point.



      

        

          
 We are
talking about enabling it as default networking stack.

        

      

    

    

    This comes at a cost. It sounds more like 'gut feeling' to have
    networkd as default because we (fedora) have to be 'first' ?

    Just sighting the foundation statement, 

    <snip>

     First represents our commitment to innovation. We are not
    content to let others do all the heavy lifting on our behalf; we
    provide the latest in stable and robust, useful, and powerful free
    software in our Fedora distribution.

    </snip>

    

    I haven't worked on networkd myself, so you can beat me on that..
    but from other responses to this thread I see that networkd still
    has to cover some ground before we label it as latest in stable and
    robust. I don't want to sound conservative, but remember, once we
    make it default it won't look good on us to retract if there are lot
    of issues.  

    

    

      

        

          
 Ubuntu already
has a beta implementation in place with network instead of networking
scripts.

If we have to stay ahead in innovation, we have to do things for the
"First" of our four foundation. We were ahead in adopting systemd, we
should do the same for Networkd.


        

        
The situation is not at all the same; there is no clear expectation
that networkd will replace NetworkManager, indeed AFAIK it's been
explicitly stated that it won't, because it's not desirable for it to
cover all the complex configurations NM supports.


      

      
Networkd will not replace NetworkManager. As Major wrote in his
findings, Networkd works really great (with very less configuration)
when used for head less systems.  NetworkManager in the other hand can
do many different magics for desktop/laptop users. In our cloud
scenario, we are looking into the head less use case. We also have clear
examples written by Major for various complex cases with Networkd.

As I mentioned in my previous mail, the other *major* distributions on
cloud are also moving to Networkd. If we provide the same, it will be
somewhat helpful to migrate for the users.


    

    

    This should still be possible as networkd already exists in images
    even though its not default?