Fedora Cloud Workgroup Meeting Minutes 01 May 2014

[Mike Ruckman]

============================
#cloud-working-group Meeting
============================


Meeting started by jzb at 08:02:22 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-05-01/cloud-working-... .



Meeting summary
---------------
* Crucial basic Docket Host Image decisions  (jzb, 08:07:23)
  * https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/47  (jzb, 08:07:36)
  * AGREED: fedora atomic docker-specific image will not include yum/dnf
    (mattdm, 08:15:47)
  * AGREED: try min-metadata-service for fedora atomic image for alpha,
    fall back to cloud-init for beta if it doesn't work out  (mattdm,
    08:29:56)
  * cloud-init to stay for general-purpose cloud base image  (mattdm,
    08:30:27)
  * AGREED: aim for getting python out of the fedora atomic image too,
    if all of the previous things line up.  (mattdm, 08:34:36)

* Spins Process for Cloud Images  (jzb, 08:37:47)
  * https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/49  (jzb, 08:37:53)
  * ACTION: jzb to create tickets for each Cloud Spin required.  (jzb,
    08:44:28)

* Deliverables and release engineering changes for Fedora.Next  (jzb,
  08:44:59)
  * ACTION: mattdm to update rel-eng trac with cloud spin links
    (mattdm, 08:46:30)

* start communication/collaboration on cloud image updates  (jzb,
  08:46:37)
  * https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/51  (jzb, 08:46:50)
  * ACTION: come up with policy for updates  (jzb, 08:49:50)
  * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Roshi/QA/Cloud_Docs under
    Test Overview  (roshi, 08:50:12)
  * ACTION: mattdm to post about gce on cloud list, get right people
    connected  (mattdm, 09:13:50)

Meeting ended at 09:15:36 UTC.




Action Items
------------
* jzb to create tickets for each Cloud Spin required.
* mattdm to update rel-eng trac with cloud spin links
* come up with policy for updates
* mattdm to post about gce on cloud list, get right people connected




Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* jzb
  * jzb to create tickets for each Cloud Spin required.
* mattdm
  * mattdm to update rel-eng trac with cloud spin links
  * mattdm to post about gce on cloud list, get right people connected
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * come up with policy for updates




People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* mattdm (89)
* jzb (59)
* red_trela (38)
* number80 (20)
* roshi (20)
* samkottler (12)
* danofsatx-work (9)
* geppetto (9)
* zodbot_ (6)
* rbergeron (5)
* pwhalen (4)
* jsmith (3)
* egyDev (2)
* fol_tempus (2)
* itamar_ (2)
* satellit (2)
* jeid64 (2)
* RGeri77 (1)
* somvannda (1)
* adimania (1)
* Renault (1)
* hanthana (1)
* zodbot (1)
* vpavlin (1)
* satellit_ (1)
* drieden (1)
* m00g (1)
* aeperezt (1)
* fabian_a (1)
* satellit_e (1)
* suresht (1)




Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4

.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

[Colin Walters]

On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Mike Ruckman <roshi(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; 
wrote:

>  * Crucial basic Docket Host Image decisions  (jzb, 08:07:23)
>    * https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/47  (jzb, 08:07:36)
>    * AGREED: fedora atomic docker-specific image will not include 
>  yum/dnf
>      (mattdm, 08:15:47) 
OK, but with rpm-ostree I'd like to highlight that it does already link 
to libhawkey and rpm, which are the same C libraries underlying dnf.  
This is important preparatory work for package layering.

That said, has anyone built a list of blockers/issues they see?  I have 
made a good amount of progress on Anaconda, and I'm pretty confident of 
delivery by next month.

>    * AGREED: try min-metadata-service for fedora atomic image for 
>  alpha,
>      fall back to cloud-init for beta if it doesn't work out  (mattdm,
>      08:29:56) 
I'm interested in this as well, although I don't see it as so critical. 
 Investing in thinning down cloud-init is also likely viable.

>    * AGREED: aim for getting python out of the fedora atomic image
> too,
>      if all of the previous things line up.  (mattdm, 08:34:36) 
One issue I see here is that there are a lot of valid reasons to want 
Python on the host for configuration management type tasks, and the 
answer to this is to still support local package layering on top of a 
base tree.

I'm relatively confident I can have basic package layering by Alpha.

[James Antill]

On Mon, 2014-05-05 at 15:23 +0000, Colin Walters wrote:
>  On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Mike Ruckman
> <roshi(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; 
>  wrote:
>  
>  > * Crucial basic Docket Host Image decisions  (jzb, 08:07:23)
>  >   * https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/47  (jzb, 08:07:36)
>  >   * AGREED: fedora atomic docker-specific image will not include 
>  > yum/dnf
>  >     (mattdm, 08:15:47)
>  
>  OK, but with rpm-ostree I'd like to highlight that it does already link 
>  to libhawkey and rpm, which are the same C libraries underlying dnf.  
>  This is important preparatory work for package layering. 
 I'm not sure what you are saying here. This is about yum/dnf/etc. being
in the minimal install image for the Atomic host.
 Do you plan to ship rpm-ostree in that?
 I guess you are saying that you are planning on shipping more than just
ostree, so people can do the rpm packages diff thing? Or for other
features too?
 Are you sure this feature is worth bringing in the entire
libhawkey/librepo/libcomps/librpm chain?

 I guess at worst even if it's almost the same size, most of the users
will be happy if python isn't there.

>  >   * AGREED: aim for getting python out of the fedora atomic
> image too,
>  >     if all of the previous things line up.  (mattdm, 08:34:36)
>  
>  One issue I see here is that there are a lot of valid reasons to want 
>  Python on the host for configuration management type tasks, and the 
>  answer to this is to still support local package layering on top of a 
>  base tree. 
 Not really. puppet is in ruby, cpanel is in perl. I'm not saying it's
sane, but users really hate python deps. ... so we'd probably want more
than "It's a sane language, and could be useful"

[Colin Walters]

>  
>   I'm not sure what you are saying here. This is about yum/dnf/etc. 
>  being
>  in the minimal install image for the Atomic host.
>   Do you plan to ship rpm-ostree in that? 
I thought that was the plan?

>   I guess you are saying that you are planning on shipping more than 
>  just
>  ostree, so people can do the rpm packages diff thing? Or for other
>  features too? 
Packages diff, plus future support for layering packages.  Concretely, 
I really want the ability to add stuff like strace and gdb.

>   Are you sure this feature is worth bringing in the entire
>  libhawkey/librepo/libcomps/librpm chain? 
Yeah, they're not large.  Or put another way, at least I'm seeing far 
larger space offenders.

>   Not really. puppet is in ruby, cpanel is in perl. I'm not saying
> it's
>  sane, but users really hate python deps. ... so we'd probably want 
>  more
>  than "It's a sane language, and could be useful" 
There's Ansible, but yeah; I was more saying I think the configuration 
management space is another reason to support general package layering, 
not for/against Python specifically.

[Joe Brockmeier]

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Hash: SHA1

On 05/05/2014 10:23 AM, Colin Walters wrote:
>  On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Mike Ruckman
>  <roshi(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  
> > * Crucial basic Docket Host Image decisions  (jzb, 08:07:23) *
> > https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/47  (jzb, 08:07:36) *
> > AGREED: fedora atomic docker-specific image will not include
> > yum/dnf (mattdm, 08:15:47)
>  
>  OK, but with rpm-ostree I'd like to highlight that it does already
>  link to libhawkey and rpm, which are the same C libraries
>  underlying dnf. This is important preparatory work for package
>  layering.
>  
>  That said, has anyone built a list of blockers/issues they see?  I
>  have made a good amount of progress on Anaconda, and I'm pretty
>  confident of delivery by next month. 
Any chance you can make it to tomorrow's meeting? We might have more
questions that you are uniquely qualified to help us sort out.

> > * AGREED: try min-metadata-service for fedora atomic image for
> > alpha, fall back to cloud-init for beta if it doesn't work out
> > (mattdm, 08:29:56)
>  
>  I'm interested in this as well, although I don't see it as so
>  critical. Investing in thinning down cloud-init is also likely
>  viable.
>  
> > * AGREED: aim for getting python out of the fedora atomic image
> > too, if all of the previous things line up.  (mattdm, 08:34:36)
>  
>  One issue I see here is that there are a lot of valid reasons to
>  want Python on the host for configuration management type tasks,
>  and the answer to this is to still support local package layering
>  on top of a base tree.
>  
>  I'm relatively confident I can have basic package layering by
>  Alpha. 
Great!

Best,

jzb

- -- 
Joe Brockmeier | Principal Cloud & Storage Analyst
jzb(a)redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/
Twitter: @jzb  | http://dissociatedpress.net/
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[Colin Walters]

On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Joe Brockmeier <jzb(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  
>  Any chance you can make it to tomorrow's meeting? We might have more
>  questions that you are uniquely qualified to help us sort out. 
I'll be on IRC, but unfortunately I have a time conflict on that slot 
(as I imagine many people do as it's a prime time that's reachable by 
PST, EST, and GMT).

And don't hesitate to send email at other times of course!