Hello,
Today in another conversation[1], I received this feedback about Fedora cloud images. Not sure if there is bug open for this, if not, do I file one?
[1] https://pjps.wordpress.com/2015/12/15/fad-singapore-2015/
+-- On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Deepak C Shetty wrote --+ | ... | How about having Fedora images that can be used out-of-the-box ? | | For eg: if we go to getfedora.org today, we have AMI, cloud images, | but to really use these, u either need a AWS account or need to have | a local cloud/openstack setup, otherwise (most typically) people | fire up a VM using the cloud image it gets stuck at the cloud-init | stage (thats where most of excitement of usign fedora goes down), | then after waiting for several minutes when the cloud-init times | out, it gives a login shell, where nothing works (which is expected | bcos you are supposed to use this with pre-injected ssh keys) and | then the end user just gets frustrated that he did everything he | could, came so close to using a bleedign edge fedora. but still | can't get into it. | | How about giving good documentation around hacking cloud images | (using virt-* tools) to enable ssh passwd auth, enabling root/user | login, so that its easy for newcomers to embrace cloud images | | Alternative could be to provide out-of-the-box working fedora | images, which anyone can use to boot using virt-manager, | virt-* utils or qemu cmdline and be able to login as root or | non-root with sudo access, also image comes with decent enough | root disk free space, so that embracing/trying out (which is | the first time experience) becomes memorable than frustrating | | Thoughts ?
Thank you.
--- -P J P http://feedmug.com
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 08:41:30AM +0000, P J P wrote:
Today in another conversation[1], I received this feedback about Fedora cloud images. Not sure if there is bug open for this, if not, do I file one?
Hey, thanks for passing on the feedback. We basically have two answers for this. First, you can use Vagrant, and the provided Vagrant images. They're basically made for this case. Or, second, you can use the "testcloud" tool to launch the local https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Local_Test_Cloud
Hello Matthew,
On Tuesday, 15 December 2015 6:09 PM, Matthew Miller wrote: Hey, thanks for passing on the feedback. We basically have two answers for this. First, you can use Vagrant, and the provided Vagrant images. They're basically made for this case. Or, second, you can use the "testcloud" tool to launch the local https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Local_Test_Cloud
Thank you so much for the information.
@Deepak: does it answer your questions? Please feel free to participate in the discussion here.
Thank you.
--- -P J P http://feedmug.com
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 7:39 AM, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 08:41:30AM +0000, P J P wrote:
Today in another conversation[1], I received this feedback about Fedora cloud images. Not sure if there is bug open for this, if not, do I file one?
Hey, thanks for passing on the feedback. We basically have two answers for this. First, you can use Vagrant, and the provided Vagrant images. They're basically made for this case. Or, second, you can use the "testcloud" tool to launch the local https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Local_Test_Cloud
On the point of expectations though, we might want to highlight some of the requirements a bit more clearly on the download page.
josh
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 08:36:51AM -0500, Josh Boyer wrote:
for this. First, you can use Vagrant, and the provided Vagrant images. They're basically made for this case. Or, second, you can use the "testcloud" tool to launch the local https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Local_Test_Cloud
On the point of expectations though, we might want to highlight some of the requirements a bit more clearly on the download page.
Hmmm, yeah -- current wording on the Cloud Base Image download page is "The images on this page are Fedora Cloud images for creating general purpose virtual machines (VMs)." However, that's not really accurate.
Maybe like:
"Fedora Cloud Base images are tailored for running in cloud environments. Launch one and install Fedora packages to build your cloud computing solution. If you are interested in running this on a laptop, see the Vagrant images below, or check out [testcloud]."
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 08:36:51AM -0500, Josh Boyer wrote:
for this. First, you can use Vagrant, and the provided Vagrant images. They're basically made for this case. Or, second, you can use the "testcloud" tool to launch the local https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Local_Test_Cloud
On the point of expectations though, we might want to highlight some of the requirements a bit more clearly on the download page.
Hmmm, yeah -- current wording on the Cloud Base Image download page is "The images on this page are Fedora Cloud images for creating general purpose virtual machines (VMs)." However, that's not really accurate.
Maybe like:
"Fedora Cloud Base images are tailored for running in cloud environments. Launch one and install Fedora packages to build your cloud computing solution. If you are interested in running this on a laptop, see the Vagrant images below, or check out [testcloud]."
Why not provide a image that has root or non-root user with std. passwd ? whats the problem with that ?
Why add the vagrant dep at all ? I understand Vagrant is widely used but for those who don't want to use, a simple ready-to-consume image would help better. It could also help in attracting more attention / crowd :)
Also since cloud image is the most downloaded one, how about providing a .iso file with pre-loaded user/passwd, so that people willing to use cloud-image in non-cloud env (local, virt-mgr etc) can use the iso file as the cloud-init data source ?
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ cloud mailing list cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Deepak Shetty dpkshetty@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 08:36:51AM -0500, Josh Boyer wrote:
for this. First, you can use Vagrant, and the provided Vagrant images. They're basically made for this case. Or, second, you can use the "testcloud" tool to launch the local https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Local_Test_Cloud
On the point of expectations though, we might want to highlight some of the requirements a bit more clearly on the download page.
Hmmm, yeah -- current wording on the Cloud Base Image download page is "The images on this page are Fedora Cloud images for creating general purpose virtual machines (VMs)." However, that's not really accurate.
Maybe like:
"Fedora Cloud Base images are tailored for running in cloud environments. Launch one and install Fedora packages to build your cloud computing solution. If you are interested in running this on a laptop, see the Vagrant images below, or check out [testcloud]."
Why not provide a image that has root or non-root user with std. passwd ? whats the problem with that ?
Why add the vagrant dep at all ? I understand Vagrant is widely used but for those who don't want to use, a simple ready-to-consume image would help better. It could also help in attracting more attention / crowd :)
Also since cloud image is the most downloaded one, how about providing a .iso file with pre-loaded user/passwd, so that people willing to use cloud-image in non-cloud env (local, virt-mgr etc) can use the iso file as the cloud-init data source ?
Last but not the least, pls provide a link on getfedora.org for downloading n-1, n-2 fedora cloud images, the last time i had a need, had to google and eventaully had to download it from someone's blog/dropbox site
thanx, deepak
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ cloud mailing list cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Wednesday, 16 December 2015 10:03 AM, Deepak Shetty wrote:
Why not provide a image that has root or non-root user with std. passwd ? whats the problem with that ?
Default root password could become a security risk. Rarely people change such settings. It'd depend on the implementation, but just thinking aloud.
--- -P J P http://feedmug.com
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:39 AM, P J P pjp@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Wednesday, 16 December 2015 10:03 AM, Deepak Shetty wrote:
Why not provide a image that has root or non-root user with std. passwd ? whats the problem with that ?
Default root password could become a security risk. Rarely people change such settings. It'd depend on the implementation, but just thinking aloud.
Agree, it could be configured to force change the root passwd at the time of first login
thanx, deepak
-P J P http://feedmug.com _______________________________________________ cloud mailing list cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Deepak Shetty dpkshetty@gmail.com wrote:
Also since cloud image is the most downloaded one, how about providing a .iso file with pre-loaded user/passwd, so that people willing to use cloud-image in non-cloud env (local, virt-mgr etc) can use the iso file as the cloud-init data source ?
There is an ISO that can be used to install Fedora Cloud using Anaconda. I suggest using automatic partitioning (avoids problems due to some missing pieces to support custom layouts).
https://getfedora.org/en/cloud/download/ In the center of the screen, click on Atomic Images, on the right side is the ISO option. This is an atomic host system, no dnf (except in containers based on images that use it).
Another option is to download Workstation or Server ISO *netinstall* and click on Software Selection (in the hub of the installer), and "Fedora Cloud Server" is an option in there. This is a conventionally updated (with dnf) system, it's not an atomic host system.
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:03:46AM +0530, Deepak Shetty wrote:
Why not provide a image that has root or non-root user with std. passwd ? whats the problem with that ?
Security team told us in no uncertain terms to not to. :)
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 08:41:30AM +0000, P J P wrote:
Today in another conversation[1], I received this feedback about Fedora cloud images. Not sure if there is bug open for this, if not, do I file one?
Hey, thanks for passing on the feedback. We basically have two answers for this. First, you can use Vagrant, and the provided Vagrant images.
Vagrant is fine, but there are instances where one needs to be as close to reality than the abstraction / layering added by Vagrant. I would want to use it directly either using the qemu cmd line or virsh/virt-* tools which is more preferable by (some) devs than usign vbox/vagrant et al
They're basically made for this case. Or, second, you can use the "testcloud" tool to launch the local https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Local_Test_Cloud
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader c _______________________________________________ cloud mailing list cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 09:59:54AM +0530, Deepak Shetty wrote:
Vagrant is fine, but there are instances where one needs to be as close to reality than the abstraction / layering added by Vagrant. I would want to use it directly either using the qemu cmd line or virsh/virt-* tools which is more preferable by (some) devs than usign vbox/vagrant et al
Yeah, thatis' why the suggestion of testcloud.
On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 09:59:54 +0530 Deepak Shetty dpkshetty@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 08:41:30AM +0000, P J P wrote:
Today in another conversation[1], I received this feedback about Fedora cloud images. Not sure if there is bug open for this, if not, do I file one?
Hey, thanks for passing on the feedback. We basically have two answers for this. First, you can use Vagrant, and the provided Vagrant images.
Vagrant is fine, but there are instances where one needs to be as close to reality than the abstraction / layering added by Vagrant. I would want to use it directly either using the qemu cmd line or virsh/virt-* tools which is more preferable by (some) devs than usign vbox/vagrant et al
testcloud is now in f23 updates-testing and f24. I'll be pushing it stable when it gets enough karma or enough time has passed but please check it out.
As Matt also said, it sounds like your usecase could be well covered by what testcloud already does.
Tim
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Chris Murphy -
Deepak Shetty -
Josh Boyer -
Matthew Miller -
P J P -
Tim Flink