RE: "What would you say ya *do* here?"

[Peter Robinson]

Hi Greg,

>  As has been pointed out, "cloud" is a very large topic. 
> Which means that, 
>  IMO, there are two directions we can go on this list that are not
> mutually 
>  exclusive: long-winded, bloviating discussions about what we *could*
> do,
>  and detailed plans for what we *will* do.
>
>  Let's focus on the second for now, since the first is going to happen
>  anyways. 
Agreed on this, everyone's definition of clouds are different so lets focus
on what's easy now.

>  There are many potential cloud goals that we could be tackling, but
> I
>  believe that a lot of people would agree with this proposed initial goal:
>
>  LET'S CREATE FEDORA EC2 IMAGES THAT DON'T SUCK.
>
>  :)
>
>  Right now we face a dilemma:
>
>     * The latest Fedora kernel available on Amazon EC2 is Fedora 8;
>     * Various people are creating "Fedora images" based on that AKI;
>     * Confusion results, e.g.:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/448794/how-does-an-amazon-ec2-instance...
>     * Which (a) doesn't work and (b) gives Fedora a bad name in
> the 
process.
>  We have an opportunity to fix this.  Justin Forbes has been working with
>  some folks at Amazon to make this better, and it looks like we'll have an
>  "official" account that will allow us to do something clever, like put a
>  Gold Star next to "official" Fedora EC2 images.
>
>  Once we actually get them up and running, of course.  Which, painted in
>  broad strokes, maybe looks something like this:
>
>  1. Getting a basic image uploaded and working for anybody (Justin is on
>  this, but maybe could use some help?);
>
>  2. Getting a basic image uploaded and working for everybody (which means
>  coordinating a testing account for Fedora people to use free-of-charge,
>  which we have funding for, and then finding actual people to test);
>
>  3. Getting that basic image created as part of the Fedora release process
>  (which was discussed at FUDCon, but I don't know if any of those
>  conversations continued);
>
>  4. Providing proper tools for people to create their own images, since
>  creation of a custom "spin" is basically an essential activity in the
>  cloud. 
I'm happy to help out where I can on all of the above. From the discussion @
FUDCon I'd add two points to this

5. A fedora mirror within EC2 so people don't have to pay for updates etc.
This allows us to provide a very small base image and people can just do
"yum groupinstall some-service" to get what they want.

6. The tools and API etc (if they aren't already) for the redhat deltacloud
stuff.

>  It may be that some of this activity is going on already, and
> that's a
>  large part of what this SIG is about: to find those people and get them
>  talking in one place, away from the clutter of fedora-devel and other
>  lists.  So if you're working on tools that will help with this goal, by
>  all means, speak up. 
I've not heard a whisper since the FUDCon discussion and was wondering what
the status of it was.

>  And now, a couple of questions.
>
>  * For Justin.  How's your current image looking?  Does it work well enough 
>  for other folks to try it out?  If not, what's the issue, and can
> anyone
>  help?
>
>  * For everyone.  Have you played with EC2 yet?  If not, do you have a
>  side project that could benefit from its use, that furthers the goals of
>  Fedora / free software / etc., and are willing to test our images?  If so, 
>  let us know -- we've got an account for this purpose, and can
> send you the 
>  info needed to get started.  Even if we don't have the latest
> Fedora up
>  yet, there are plenty of images that you can play with to get a sense of
>  how EC2 works. 
Briefly, not as much as I would have liked but its on my ToDo list. The
details to get started would be great, I've got 2 weeks spare in Feb where I
should be able to get a good look at this.

>  * For everyone.  Would an IRC meeting to talk through some of this
> stuff
>  be useful -- sort of a kickoff where everyone takes an hour out of their
>  life to think about all this -- or should we stick to the mailing list for 
>  now? 
I'd prefer mailing list discussion where possible. I find it notoriously
hard to make it to IRC meetings due to other schedules and timezones. With
list discussion it makes that easier.

Cheers,
Peter

"What would you say ya *do* here?"

[Greg DeKoenigsberg]

On Wed, 20 Jan 2010, Peter Robinson wrote:

>  > 1. Getting a basic image uploaded and working for anybody
> (Justin is on
>  > this, but maybe could use some help?);
>  >
>  > 2. Getting a basic image uploaded and working for everybody (which means
>  > coordinating a testing account for Fedora people to use free-of-charge,
>  > which we have funding for, and then finding actual people to test);
>  >
>  > 3. Getting that basic image created as part of the Fedora release process
>  > (which was discussed at FUDCon, but I don't know if any of those
>  > conversations continued);
>  >
>  > 4. Providing proper tools for people to create their own images, since
>  > creation of a custom "spin" is basically an essential activity in the
>  > cloud.
>  
>  I'm happy to help out where I can on all of the above. From the discussion @
>  FUDCon I'd add two points to this
>  
>  5. A fedora mirror within EC2 so people don't have to pay for updates etc.
>  This allows us to provide a very small base image and people can just do
>  "yum groupinstall some-service" to get what they want. 
I'm pretty sure that Amazon will be happy to help with this, since it's in 
their interest.

>  6. The tools and API etc (if they aren't already) for the redhat
> deltacloud
>  stuff. 
So I would say that this is Big Goal #2, but I'm afraid we'll get ahead of 
ourselves -- my guess is we've got a ton of work to do to nail down Big 
Goal #1 first.  Still, this is *definitely* the direction we should be 
heading, and if someone wants to jump in on that, I'm certainly happy 
about it.

>  > It may be that some of this activity is going on already, and
> that's a
>  > large part of what this SIG is about: to find those people and get them
>  > talking in one place, away from the clutter of fedora-devel and other
>  > lists.  So if you're working on tools that will help with this goal, by
>  > all means, speak up.
>  
>  I've not heard a whisper since the FUDCon discussion and was wondering what
>  the status of it was. 
Well, I guess this is it.  :)

>  > And now, a couple of questions.
>  >
>  > * For Justin.  How's your current image looking?  Does it work well enough
>  > for other folks to try it out?  If not, what's the issue, and can anyone
>  > help?
>  >
>  > * For everyone.  Have you played with EC2 yet?  If not, do you have a
>  > side project that could benefit from its use, that furthers the goals of
>  > Fedora / free software / etc., and are willing to test our images?  If so,
>  > let us know -- we've got an account for this purpose, and can send you the
>  > info needed to get started.  Even if we don't have the latest Fedora up
>  > yet, there are plenty of images that you can play with to get a sense of
>  > how EC2 works.
>  
>  Briefly, not as much as I would have liked but its on my ToDo list. The
>  details to get started would be great, I've got 2 weeks spare in Feb where I
>  should be able to get a good look at this. 
I'll get that to you soon.

>  > * For everyone.  Would an IRC meeting to talk through some of
> this stuff
>  > be useful -- sort of a kickoff where everyone takes an hour out of their
>  > life to think about all this -- or should we stick to the mailing list for
>  > now?
>  
>  I'd prefer mailing list discussion where possible. I find it notoriously
>  hard to make it to IRC meetings due to other schedules and timezones. With
>  list discussion it makes that easier. 
--g

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